megaplayboy

Re: Champions-clix anyone? my favorite actual Heroclix fig: http://www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/marvel/figuregallery.asp?unitid=5352 1800 points

Re: So, Who Else Is Gonna Grab Galactic Champions ASAP?? I'll buy a couple, one for me and one for my group to share

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

Re: Plot Seeds Needed Here's a few: Evil little bastard or b!t@h, future master villain who just happens to be the "Teacher's Pet". Alternatively, ELB grows up, starts rival academy with a more..."morally unbound" curriculum across town/state/country. Students butt heads, rivalry grows over time. Adults all laid up with mystery illness--will the Academy remain intact until they recover? The current Teen Titans and X-Men cartoons are good resources, IMO.

Re: Plot Seeds Needed Dunno, maybe some high schools have websites, and maps on their sites?

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority If you look at the thread, the debate wasn't over such beings offering a choice to humanity, but rather imposing it upon them. Imposing "justice" by unjust means is inherently problematic. Wanderer made no reference to the PCs starting out trying to work through the system, developing their miraculous inventions and offering it freely, or trying to create a legal structure for action short of become the planet's de facto rulers. In one post he referred to humiliating, deposing and executing the elected US President and his cabinet on worldwide television. Does that sound like a group of morally superior beings to you? He also talked about the PCs putting a "beatdown" on heroes who dared to lecture them on the morality of their actions. It doesn't really sound like a group of mature people with cosmic-level abilities who are approaching the world situation in the most appropriate and responsible fashion. Some of the responses sounded a little extreme, I agree, but see my recent posts on this for some of the more reasonable problems and objections to such an idea.

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority Hmm...wonder if Wanderer lost interest, or if everyone just said everything they wanted to say on this...topic's of interest to me b/c I run a lot of high-level games where the characters' actions do have an impact on the game world.

final--part 5 21. How do the PCs plan to protect their DNPCs, since they will essentially be full time supers? Are they always going to be able to keep them safe personally, or will they be vulnerable at times, while the PCs are busy dealing with other things? 22. How do the PCs plan to perform all of their duties in the face of active and passive resistance, multiple areas of concern happening simultaneously, etc.? This could be a huge logistical nightmare for 5 beings to administer a world of 6 billion humans, deal with huge social upheaval, develop the various miraculous technologies to replace polluting industries and feed the hungry, impose their values on an unwilling populace, and defeat/withstand ferocious, persistent and increasingly efficient resistance to their rule. Frankly, it sounds like a thankless, joyless task that would leave less zealous characters desperately searching for an exit strategy. 23. What are the circumstances under which the PCs relinquish their authority? This is a key point, since silence on this issue would case even greater suspicion on their motives, even among their sympathizers. 24. Under what circumstances would the PCs willingly submit to human justice? If, during a battle, the megablaster accidentally blows up a bus full of school children, do the PCs wave it off, or does the mega blaster turn himself in to the police? If they were challenged by other superheroes, would they submit to the judgment of their fellow paranormals, or are they even above the judgment of other superhumans? 25. If humanity doesn't want to submit to such oversight, why force it upon them? What allowances will the PCs make for free will? They may reject such questions when they come from the President or Capt. Superpatriot, but what if they come from Aung Suu Kyi, or the Dalai Lama, or the head of Doctors without Borders? I think that pretty much covers the questions I would have, as a gamer(or writer, for that matter, about such a setting and plotline.

part 4 16. Are there aliens in the campaign setting? How will alien empires respond if they perceive a threat ("they 'liberated' one world, how many more?")? Sure the PCs can drop kick the Justice Squad all the way to Saturn, but can they face the armada of super dreadnoughts and the Imperial Supreme Legendary Guard(all 20+ of the cosmic-level buggers) without wetting their tights? They might well face a situation where their raw power can't bail out, and they actually have to talk the Admiral out of summarily executing them and reducing the Earth to raw materials. 17. Ditto for gods and extradimensional entities, heroes from alternate Earths--an interesting scenario might involve a visitor from an alternate future Earth, where the PC team really did become brutal bloody tyrants. That would be particularly interesting if it happened just before or just after their planned takeover. Or the 4-color version of the PCs pops into the campaign universe, and the PCs either have to justify their actions, or find a way to get rid of their counterparts. 18. What will the PCs do it their actions directly or indirectly result in the death of innocents? For example, there's likely to be dozens of interns working at the White House--none of whom are really complicit in the corruption or actions of the President or his cabinet. Or in the course of a super-battle, a 20+ d6 Energy blast misses it's target, instead hitting a school, a car, a skyscraper, etc.--with so much fighting going on, often in urban areas, innocent civilians are likely to become "collateral damage", unless the PCs make extraordinary efforts to avoid it. 19. What happens if one or two PCs disagree more and more frequently with "policy decisions"? Will one character have veto power over decisions they disagree with? How will the leader deal with the disagreements? 20. What if the lesser faction splits off from the other PCs and declares its active opposition(i.e., a PC group at war with itself)?

part 3 11. referring to the previous question, before doing all of the above, did they explore all alternatives to those actions first? For example, did they offer their solutions freely to the world, before imposing them by force? 12. How do they respond to violent resistance by humanity? Are they willing to use lethal force against conscripted soldiers, suicide bombers, etc? 13. How do they respond to violent resistance by paranormals? Are they willing to kill, imprison, or psionically suppress fellow superheroes who oppose their tactics? This is likely to be a key point of conflict for the PCs. It's also likely to be the one where they're most likely to disagree about tactics. If the PCs act too harshly, eventually they'll have to treat every conflict as a life-or death struggle, since their foes, heroic or non-, will be going all out to take them out. If they're too lenient, their opponents will just keep getting better and better at fighting them. 14. How do they respond to non-violent resistance(for example, superheroes just saying, "f--k it, I'm not going to stop anyone from doing anything, as long as these schmucks are in charge." Or cops, laborers, etc refusing to keep the society running smoothly. Brutal repression of such resistance is likely to prove all the mean and nasty things posters here are saying about such a team--they're no better than the tyrants they got rid of. 15. How do they deal with WMD disposal, social welfare, maintaining civil society, racism, environmental issues(rapidly developing alternative power sources, minimizing the social disruption from shutting down polluting factories and power plants, etc)? Will they be micro-managing society--"Mighty Man thinks "meat is murder", so everybody has to stop eating beef, poultry, pork and fish--or else" "sorry, you'll have to bike the 20 miles to work until the new solar cars are built in sufficient numbers for everyone--don't worry, it'll only take 5, 6 years max"? If they're dictating things at that level, popular opposition will slowly become almost universal, even among those predisposed to be ideological allies. Not to mention the difficulty of enofrcing such decrees while fending off organized resistance.

part 2 6. How many other active paranormals/posthumans exist, and how powerful are they? You have to decide whether or not any rival top tier teams exist, and if they have philosophical differences with the PCs. Even if no other top tier teams exist, are there comparably powerful individual supers who might come into conflict with the PCs? Are there dozens, hundreds, or thousands of superhumans? For cosmic-level PCs to have emerged, there would likely have to be at least several hundred superhumans around the world. That's a pretty large pool of potential allies and enemies. Some of them may be persuaded willingly, some may measure the PCs by their actions/results, and some may be diametrically opposed, no matter what. 7. What sort of governmental and extra-governmental superagencies exist? What is their level of capability? For example, if there's a Stronghold-type facility, would it actually be capable of holding a PC? As you say, hordes of elite super-agents would likely be necessary to pose any sort of challenge for cosmic-level PCs. 8. What sort of special exotic hardware is available to the top world military powers? In a world of superhumans, would the military have deployed anti-super weapons and tactics? It may not be nearly as easy as it would be in a RW setting, if supers have been around for a few procurement/R&D cycles. 9. Master Villains--both with a small m and a big M. How many MVs exist, and is/are there MVs capable of posing a threat to the entire team? Would any of them ally with each other if the PCs started offing villains? A mastermind or puppeteer type could well manipulate events behind the scenes to either undermine the PCs efforts, or get them to remove obstacles to the villain's own goals. 10. What events lead to the PCs decision to firstly declare themselves unbound by the law, secondly to overthrow the sovereign elected officials of a world superpower, and lastly to declare themselves the world's "overseers"?

25 questions and points Okay, here goes(I'll do 5 per post, so it's easier for people to respond, and there's less to read through for each one). 1. Concrete details--how many points, active points, damage classes, etc for the PCs? It sounds like there will be 5 characters. If the characters are built on a really high point base, like Dr. Destroyer 5E(2500 points), then they're going to walk over any and all terrestrial opposition without much difficulty--just too powerful to have a chance of stopping. If they're built on the minimal 'cosmic' level of 700-750 points, they probably won't be capable of multitasking while facing down their toughest foes. So somewhere in between is probably the "sweet spot". 1000-1500 points or so is probably ideal, and 100-150 active points or so. 2. What kind of mix of powers for the characters will there be? Obviously they'd need a super-brick, a mega-powerful energy projector, a superscientist tech genius, a magician, and maybe a mentalist or matter transmuter. Also, one of them should probably be a master tactician, another a charismatic speaker, at least one filthy rich, and one with a lot of connections. If they're too similar(built to be completely self-sufficient), it's harder to challenge them, and players sometimes resent someone stiomping all over their shtick. 3. What kind of personalities do the PCs have? Are they all of exactly the same mindset? Would they have different motivations for coming to their common goal? Is one an alien, a robot, or otherwise possessed of a radically different perspective? Are they all from the same or different national backgrounds? 4. What kind of disads do the PCs have? Psych lims? DNPCs? Hunteds(well, they're likely to be hunted by everyone after a while, but who are their known enemies at the start of the game)? Do any of them have vulnerabilities, physical lims, susceptibilities, unluck, or anything that would actually be a liability in combat(on a side note, will any of them have any power limitations on their abilities)? This will basically guide the GM in figuring out how to enhance challenges for the PCs. 5. What's the general outlook of the campaign setting? Is it totally bleak, or are there good people doing their best in a bad system? Are all superagents and superpatriots corrupt and complicit, or are some of them merely "misinformed and misguided"? Is the public really that stupid, selfish, and cynical, or are there actually a lot of people who are paying attention and trying to change things?

The carrier wouldn't need 1000 crew if they weren't planning on flying more than one or two aircraft off of it--probably could cut that number in half. If they just were going to have engine/propulsion/navigation related crew, plus support for them, they might even be able to get away with about 250 crew(about 60 points worth of followers). In the alternative, if they have the money and a resident Stark-type on the team, they could automate most of the functions and get away with having maybe 5 dozen crew on the ship. Just to point out, it would be safer for the public for them to have a base outside of the downtown area, anyway. Don't quite see how this really threatens the campaign.

Perhaps the group should call itself the Global Oversight Directive, or GOD for short. Kinda catchier than WOC, and more accurate to what they seem to want to do:p

Since Wanderer has asked us for insights on the moral dilemmas and conceptual problems involved in his planned global coup d'etat supers campaign, why don't we just try to boil down everyone's questions and objections into a unified set of, say, 20-25, so Wanderer can contemplate and address those questions? Then we can close the thread before things become any more heated than they already are. I'll do it when I get home tonight, if no one else has by then:)

Well, even in a dictatorship, dozens or hundreds of people have to be in agreement in order for a "conquest" to occur. With a supergroup, only a half dozen or fewer people make that decision. That is a difference in kind.

I think if there were activist conservative "heroes" running around using mental powers to "cure" homosexuals, execute suicide bombers without trial and with minimal evidence, overthrow any governments they disliked, etc., that even conservative activists would begin to have a problem with their tactics. So it's not simply that the PCs are of one political stripe or another, it's that they are elevating themselves beyond human judgment or reckoning, and at the same time subjecting all of humanity to their own judgment and reckoning. I can't see how any rational human being would find that at all appealing in any way whatsoever.

crap, had a long post and my internet went down:( But here's my question: What happens when the biggest rival hero team, and several lesser teams and prominent solos coalesce into the most credible opposition to the PCs? What if they said: "We refuse to recognize your accession to power as legitimate. We feel your actions are criminal in the most philosophical sense of the word, and we call upon you to stand down and face a trial by a jury of your peers, since you recognize no 'normal' authority." Will they refuse to submit to the judgment of their peers? Will they be willing to kill other heroes(unambiguously heroic, mind you, just with a different philosophy than the PCs) to accomplish their goals?

It seems like the Authority is certainly beatable--none of them are without weaknesses, both psychological and physical. Eventually the editors will figure out where the plotline will inevitably lead, and will dictate the outcome to the writers. ____________________________________ case in point--there are at least two dozen supervillains in the CU operating at the "cosmic" level(i.e., over 700 points). Even if a mega-hero team killed off a half dozen of them, and another half-dozen were too psychotic or narcissistic to team up, that'd still leave a dozen megavillains to ally with each other. IN the CU there's an estimated 3000 supers. That's a pretty big pool of potential opposition. ______________________________

I think you'd see a "Legion of Master Villains" crop up secretly, and rapidly, in response to the deaths of a few such villains at the hands of the PCs. Their instincts for self-preservation, coupled with the perception of a common enemy, would compel them to work together to bring down the cosmic vigilantes. Villainous agencies might set aside their mutual hostilities and work together for the common evil On the superheroic side, in a dark and gritty world, there might be a fair number of supers who'd initially support such an approach, until the body count started to mount, and some of their heroic comrades died in opposition. Then thy'd likely mobilize, also covertly, but on a huge scale(think 100+ supers and a dozen or more teams gathering strength, information, and training to defeat the PCs). Governments and super-agencies would regroup and reorganize, trying to put together a plan to defeat the heroes. In short, if they declare themselves above the law while dictating terms to the rest of the world, they will effectively be at war with everyone on the planet in a very short period of time, regardless of the nobility of their goals. They'd never have time to effectively achieve those goals, because every week they'd face adversity or resistance of one sort or another, eventually likely to culminate in some sort of superhuman Ragnarok(and the bloody, violent, inevitable and irrevocable demise of every single PC). If they stopped short of becoming a de facto global dictatorship, they might be able to avoid such outcomes, so long as they took a more low key approach to "fixing" the world. Skimmed through the Authority today( softcovers and current ish). Not bad, but noteworthy that it took them about 60+ issues to get around to taking over the United States, and that was after the corrupt President did some truly awful stuff. Have a feeling they will eventually be either: a) deeply uncomfortable with being benevolent fascists corrupted to some extent by their own dominance c) brought down by other "posthumans" unhappy with their philosophy d) all of the above

Demons Rule Wrath of the Seven Horsemen Champions in 3-D{Horror World, Dream World) The Olympians(with the Perez cover) Horror Enemies(for Dark Champs?)

The best solution to killer PCs is for other PCs to take them to task over it, and for the GM to tack a few consequences onto that. it depends on how accidental/intentional and justifiable/unjustifiable the killings/near-killings were, but a real problem exists if the other PCs refuse to confront their teammates over the incident. That can have a lot more impact than the GM sledgehammering things into them.

Well, they could set themselves up in an orbital HQ, or on the moon, or something, and in exchange for a "ceasefire", demand recognition by your world's UN. They'd have to define their goals and motivations very carefully, and presumably have to have some way of directly communicating with the populace. Since you're the GM, in order for the campaign to be "challenging" not only from an RP perspective but from a gaming perspective, It has to be possible for the characters to lose, fail, and/or even die in pursuit of their cause . I have a hard time seeing how they could achieve their goals without effectively being at war with the major nations, agencies, heroes and villains in the world. If they knock off an oppressive government or megacorp by extralegal, undemocratic means, what guarantee do the successors have that they won't be knocked off in turn the moment they do something disagreeable to the group? In effect, they are going to be ruling the world, if they have veto power over the decisions of sovereign powers. How would you feel if someone walked into your living room and started telling you everything you were doing wrong, and told you to correct your 'mistakes' or else? Besides the significant other/your parents, I mean:D

How do they protect their DNPCs? What happens when their DNPCs see them murdering soldiers and superheroes, and turn on them? I'd say they're only a half dozen or so, they can't be everywhere at the same time. If they set up lesser lackeys to carry out their edicts, those lackeys will be vulnerable. A superhuman underground resistance movement is likely to form, and may well include (pardoned) supervillains. If each hero can take on a whole team of lesser supers, what about 2 or 3 teams at once? If the resistance can stage a distraction, and tie down half the PCs in one spot, they can isolate and take out 1 or 2 PCs through sheer numbers. From a roleplaying standpoint, a master villain can make a soliloquy talking about what noble heroes they WERE, but now they're worse than he ever was, because they do all the hoorible things he did, but he never pretended to be 'noble' in his motives for imposing his will on the world. I think the world setting would have to be cyberpunk/X-Files-level bleak for such a move to be viewed at all positively by the populace. If they overthrew a despotic ruler, and started turning a 3rd world coutry into a utopia, that would be an interesting campaign.

for "never misses": AoE, accurate + no range mods + fully invisible (total +2 in advantages)--this will rarely if ever miss, add indirect if you want to be able to hit past obstacles for "always does damage": AVLD(power defense or flash defense), AP --power defense is relatively rare, and almost never hardened, therefore the attack will almost always do damage invulnerability, or effective invulnerability should cost about 150 points per category(physical, energy, mental, power, presence attacks, etc). That'll buy you 60rDEF and 75% damage reduction, which will stop all the BODY from a 10d6 KA, and reduce the stun to a manageable level.