AmadanNaBriona

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? I like this thread, so I'm hoping to drag it back into a cool system discussion rather that a cock fight. I've already decided to let it drop in favor of continuing the discussion in the original spirit.

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? Nice to see this get back on track and civil (and just in case, when I mentioned "your" gear enhancement, at that point I wasn't talking about your example, but using "your" to refer to the characters gear). As I don't hacve DC yet I can't use the gear examples from in there, but if you're going off just the HERO rules, yourRange Mod for a telescopic sight only gives you a +2. Even a full telescope (in the perception mods section) only gives a +3. So additional levels are a must at extreme ranges. A spotter would be good for a realistic millitary sniper, even if it defies the movie sterotype of the "lone" sniper. Which also brings up the point that you'd want to look at a somewhat different skill set for a purely urban sniper (like a SWAT sniper) who doesn't have to worry about escape and evasion, or underbrush and the like, but may have to act in a faster and/or less lethal manner. I'm thinking some lightning reflexs or dex levels to be able to beat any possible dex-off situations... you know, the "TAKE the shot NOW...he's about to kill the hostage!" kind of thing. That and I've watched footage of a SWAT sniper shooting the gun out of the hand of a perp while he was in mid gesture, and moving. Probably less Range levels (who needs them in an urban environment?) and more Targeting or straight up CSL's

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? AS tempted as I am to continue the "whos sniper has the bigger d**k" discussion, I see that its turning into a classic textbook case of geek social dominance aggression displays, so I will now smooth my ruffled feathers and withdraw (without even bothering to bust out FrED and run my own version of the fight.) Suffice to say, your 18 dex 6 skill level sniper is the best character possible, in these circumstances. I could drop the Extra Time down at the cost of another point...but who cares? Mine happens to be better with a broader suite of weapons is all. And BTW... This example was for a fairly typical DC character...not me. Me...I'm a pretty good shot, but I know my limitations, and without a benchrest and some serious fricking optics, I'd never hit someone at that range. And I suspect you can't either. So lets give this a rest, shall we, and agree to disagree. Hopefully all this squabbling has at least given the original poster a couple of ideas to work with. And yeah... either style should have a fair number of levels with PER... That -16 range mod works for sight too, and most of your gear based range mod bonuses won't apply to that part.

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? Let me get this straight...you're babbling about point efficency, and "real" snipers taking hours for the perfect shot (which I realize the 0 DCV construct sets up nicely), then you don't bother having someone get under cover? And chest shots are rather likely to run into any body armor a target may be wearing. Ahh bugger it... I've answered the question for less than the cost of 4 RSL's with all rifles, gotten repped, and have a new construct I can use in my games. And if you really wanna play the "I kill your guy" game, then I rewrite the power without the -1/2 concentrate limit... Now it cost an even 8 POINTS now my sniper gets full DCV, and can allocate his levels to defence. have a nice day

Re: Hey Jkeown!! I make fetish clothing for a living and, much as my fanboy soul wants to, I have yet to successfully make a top like that that actually works for anything but still photo shoots. The rest of it is do-able tho

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? Hmmm... I think that if I ever get enough players interested in Champions again to revamp my villans in 5th, I'll give Recoil (my Deathstroke homage villan) this ability.

Re: Why does the USS Iowa only have a 10 Defense? In an attempt to hijack this thread into a fun a useful direction, rather than the usual rant about Vechiles in HERO, I'd like to ask this... Has anyone come up with a good set of alternate vechile rules for the system that are fairly realistic and aren't a complete kludge job?

Re: Ranged, STR Adds Damage The funny thing is that they RECCOMEND this style of build as the "realistic" way to write up muscle powered ranged weapons. Just as long as they don't do normal damage, I guess. LOL I really don't see a good way under the current ruleset to get around this.

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? We obviously have different ideas of what is effective, and what is appropriate. I am a massive Genre Fiend, and my games tend to be heavy on genre conventions... as well, I usually enforce soft CV and DC caps on players. My example is for a SUPER or typical action movie hero. If I was running a realistic heroic campaign, I wouldn't use it. And a waste of points? How? example... No Range Modifier (+1/2) Naked Mod on up to 3d6 RKA (22 AP) (-1/2) OIF Firearm of opportunity (-1/2) Concentrate 0 DCV (-3/4) Extra Phase (-1/2) RSR: Power skill (Breath control... used for several other abilities) Total limit (-2 1/4) Real Cost: (22 AP/3.25)= 7 points. Now my 23 DEX (8 OCV base) , +4 levels with Combat example character can, for 7 points, attack someone with his 12 OCV at the max range of any weapon he picks up, by taking a few seconds of his time to sight in, breathe, and then shoot. Really powerful? Yup. Genre Apropriate? Depends on the Genre. Realistic? Nope. IT'S A SUPERSKILL. Overpriced? no. Quite possibly too cheap for the effect. It does make him 0 DCV for 2 phases tho, so its not completly unbalancing. Try putting him and your realistic sniper on opposing rooftops at 1500 yards and see who dies first... might be a fun excercise (I haven't done it yet)

Re: Fantasy Hero combat slower? I suspect his reasoning is flawed. You have it right...turns go by faster. What makes any HERO system combat faster or slower is the number of optional rules you use, as well as the complexity of powers and abilities brought to bear. Fantsy Powers tend to be more limited, so they take longer than most supers powers. 4 color combat is a lot quicker than fights using hit locations, bleeding, impairing and disabling, pain, hindering circumstances etc. Heroic level characters, in general, also have a higher damage to defence ratio, and thus spend more time getting tricky in combat. IME, this does make heroic level combat slower, but in many cases more fun. Just my $.02

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill? Thus far, I haven't chimed in becasue I suspect that my feelings on the topic will make a LONG post, but for a quick sidenote... Those of you who dislike "killer" heros, still may want to resist the temptation to use Judge Dredd as an example. He is an example of an EXTREMELY moral and upright character who kills. Remember the idea of a social contract.... he has had his authority granted to him by society. He's no different than a Knight or Samurai (both of whom have certain culturally granted powers of summary justice and executon.) I will grant, however, that if you are a fanatical follower of Kantian ethics then you'll still hate him, but hes not a good example of a "renegade" who kills simply because he can. He has the law and (most) of the population behind him.

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? I am considering your example, and the situation you layed out. and for a Heroic level game, I tend to agree... Thos for a world class sniper, you have to factor in a few more bits... Targets expecting trouble (like moving on patrol in a warzone) are usually considered 1/2 DCV, not 0. Not saying this is always the case, but your combat sniper should take this into consideration. He should also have additionnal CSL's or PSL's to allow him to overcome cover penalties and place his shot. He's not likely to acheive a 1 shot kill if he puts that .50 cal slug into his targets hand. And he'll need more levels if you want him to be able to pull off the really spiffy shots with inferior equipment. My way is a way to build, once again, a sniper "Superskill". its in the same category as "Vanishing Teleport" or "Precognition RSR Tactics" Its a trick you give a character like Deathstroke, who should be able to lift a rifle off a mook he just pasted, take careful aim, and begin counter sniping all the rooftop SWAT members surrounding his position. Its not an ability for a normal, even hioghly skilled guy. Its for a super, and at that level, I like my build better than a host of additional levels, because a character like this, at least in my games, will already have fairly disgusting amounts of levels.

Re: When to use larger than normal weapons Actually, I have no problems with fairly high armor penalties, but I really think that the rule that most of seem to use (PSL's with armor) should probabl;y make its way into a rulebook somewhere. The weight and End cost never really goes away, but the movement and action penalties should be somethng that you can learn to ignore. The first time I fought in full feild plate, the main things I noticed besides the weight and heat were the lousy vision characteristics (I was wearing a T face barbute) and the limited range of motion.. the limited motion hampered me, but not so much that a skilled fighter couldn't work within the confines of the armor pretty easily... My friends proved it to me in a variety of acrobatic and noisy fashions. I was used to fighting in chain, so I ran into the occasional "OK...So my arm simply can NOT bend that way when I'm wearing this stuff" moment" In game terms, I'd say that while I was busy using my 5 pt Melee combat CSL's to offset the penalties, my friend with more experience and the appropriate PSL's for his armor was busy throwing me around and beating on my head with his sword. Good fun

Re: Weapon not up to the Armor You know... I am begining to really like the idea of using Body instead of some arbritrary number, because it does create an incentive to buy more Body. It paralels well with Con and Stunning. And gives us a new (high) magic number... Body times Body times 2 equals... Enough Stun to KILL you! (200 stun for a normal 10 Body) Buhahahahahah!!!!

Re: When to use larger than normal weapons I have a fair bit of practical experience in the matter as well... Ran a fighting reenactment group for 12 years. I confess to slightly overstating the weights... not for purposes of exageration, but I forgot to factor in the extra "built like a crowbar for stage fighting and not filleting your friends" weight. The broadswords I was thinking of specfically are the 16th century Irish swords that were one of our common blades. Most of our "real" claymores (16th c 2 handed model, not the basket hilt backswords sometimes given the same name) did weigh in right around 4-5 lbs, but most other contemporary great swords were heavier, mostly due to the different fighting style they were designed for and the heavier furniture. IIRC, you are absolutely correct on the greatswords of earlier periods (the Cleidh Mor was kind of the last holdout of the style, designed for personal combat rather than formation fighting). And yeah, I love the armor myths too... I had a buddy who could do a kip in his field harness... full kit. (Granted...he was also a judo instructor...)

Re: Another Deadly blow variant I used a really similar approach in 4th edition for my Norse Undead Hunter... it works well. I however, DO like Deadly Blow...its a clean rule for those of us who have always had issues with the lethality of some weapons. Try making a competent version of Vlad Taltos or the Grey Mouser (either of whom should be able to reliably take down an oppponent with one shot from a stilleto) without it and you begin to see monsterous kludge jobs involving assassins martial arts, extra DC, and weapon elements, along with Targeting levels, and, and, and....

Re: When to use larger than normal weapons Well.. most people tend to think of "rapiers" as the more modern fencing blades... and even with a proper rapier, 3 lbs is still light compared to a 5 lb broadsword or an 8 lb claymore... Not to metion that old FRPG staple..the 20 POUND BROADSWORD!!!

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? Honestly, there isn't much difference between lots of PSL's vs range and a "NO range mod" naked advantage... Except that the naked mod can be limited to define the effect better, and can be less prone to gm fiddling and conditional modifiers and the like. Mainly tho, I just like it because, tho harder to build, its a "cleaner" power to apply in-game, and for some characters seems to fit the feel (I was thinking of Alan Quartermaine in Leauge of Extraordinary Gentlemen when I posted the idea.)

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper? incedentally, I like the idea of using an appropriately limited "No Range Mod" naked advantage to represent a snipers superior training, rather than putting the advantage on the weapon. Seems to sim the effect better... Approprate limitations would probably include extra time (I'd use 1 turn) and Concentrate.

Re: When to use larger than normal weapons well... I don't use the stock "larger version of weapon" rules as written. Why? Because they are pretty badly biased against larger creatures. I figure that larger sized critters that use weapons will (mostly) have the same smithing skills and manufacturing ability to make larger versions of weapons using the normal weapon creation rules, which no longer has a "standard" str min formula as before, but can still be made so that they are scaled on the same level as the rest of the weapons on the chart. Otherwise, the only "smart" time to use a larger version of a weapon is when the creature is able to do more than the max DC of the weapon. As to realtive sizes... I wing it... Generally I figure that the height of the critter (rather than the mass) shows the overall scale increase... so a 3 meter tall critter (at 1 1/2 times normal scale) could use 1 1/2 handed weapons as strictly 1 handed, or 2 handed weapons as 1 1/2 handed. At 4 meters (X2 height) 2 handed weapons become 1 handed. This seems to scale right, at least according to "real" wrold concerns. IME, a "standard" broadsword for a human is usually about 1/2 the weilders height (usually 3 feet long) and a greatsword is about the weilders height (usually 5-6 feet). So it would seem to stand to reason that a 12 foot critter would use a 6 foot human greatsword the same way a 6 foot human would weild a 3 foot broadsword.

Re: Walking Past Combatants (Attacks of Opportunity) Interesting debate. The one and only time I played 3rd ed D&D I broke the campaign "standard" and played a plain vanilla human fighter. By 10th level, he could mop the floor with all the various gnome/werewolf ranger/sorccerers and the like, if I had wanted to. And it was all because of the Attacks of Opportunity from his plethora of feats. So I tend to agree that game is broken...It DEFINITELY rewards minmaxing. Alas I moved before I could get the reciprocal HERO game going... "OK I'll play D&D with y'all to learn the players and give the new system a fair try...but then Y'all are gonna play FH with me..." I've been pondering ways to ease the restrictions on Abort without killing game balance, as I do feel that the basic idea behind Opportunity attacks, Zones of Control, and Overwatch are features that could lend a bit more realism to HERO combat, but I'm still a bit wary. I remember the unbeatable Strike Force martial arts with abort elements on every move. One possible (legal) solution, if you're willing to pay the cost... Variable trigger on Strike.

Re: Stat Inflation Actually, the main times I used my bardiche was when we did "boars head" wedge formation charges against a formation of pike and bill hooks. Takes a LOT of practice, tho, and you REALLY have to be comfortable with an axe. And doing it without armor is suicide. I recomend a helmet as well. Galloglas were required by contract to have a helmet, but not docked pay if they were lacking... It was assumed that your decreased lifespan was sufficent penalty. I agree. This is an almost universal problem in RPG's tho. That and the ubiqutous "My Ranger wears chain mail because its sneaky" crap

Re: So why do you play Hero? Because I can do anything with it. I can run any genre of game my twisted heart desires and I can tailor the rules to the campaign without rewriting half the system. I can make characters that are fully fleshed out at creation, and don't REQUIRE years of play time to become what I wanted them to be at the start. I can create any virtually effect I can dream up. Even if its a total game breaker, I can still DO it, and can tell WHY and HOW its'll be a game breaker. Because, with a deft flick of the pen on a groundrules sheet I can decide if a campaign is going to be a silver age swashbuckling game where death is rare and plot driven or a gritty, shades of grey, lethal game. Because, in 26 years of gaming, I've never found a better system.

Re: Boudicca and The Lion of Shaolin And incedentally... I learned WAY more about how to really practically hurt people playing shinty (the scottish version of Hurley) than I ever did in all my years of swordfighting and martial arts combined. There's a reason the young warriors played that damn game.