AmadanNaBriona

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? so what was the MIDGARD serpent doing in ASGARD? Just splitting a mythological hair or two for the frell of it

Re: Paying points for Falling damage and how do you know that coffee is my traditional munch beverage? for that matter, do you know what a munch is?

Re: Paying points for Falling damage Further thoughts as I drove to my wednesday night munch.... on the original paying points for the attack if its overused.... Doesn't that make falling a power trick? So what happens after the first couple of times you do it? Well... yes you just dropped Grond from the stratosphere, but yu fail your "Flight tricks" Power skill roll... so he stays up there? If a gm pulled this on me I'd start stranding non flying villans in low earth orbit till he came up with a way to stop that... well, either he falls or he doesn't. and in a similar vein.... if characters have to pay points for gravity, then shouldn't we account for the Earths rotation as well? How much extra movement , always on (etc.), do charcters have to pay to stay motionless? And seeing as how everyone now has an immense constant movement power, they all get scads of Velocity DCV, so everyone needs a ton of PSL's to counteract the extra DCV. Sounds like more powers for my Planet Earth Base. AS well as a big summon to represent the birthrate of all life forms. And a megascale AOE attack multipower with enough "+5 points for doubling the power" to acount for all the various weather effects and natural disasters. No concious control, I hope.

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? FYI, this has always been my take on the subject, but it's NOT any more official than the "by the book" +1 Body = X2 mass rule which is part of cannon. Go check my rather old Planetbusters thread in the star hero forum to see some more discussion on the topic. ignoring the wall body table and using the body/mass doubling makes the Earth some 80 something body. If its addressed as a single target, it becomes kinda patheticly easy to destroy the earth. You run into the same problem with a lot of other items as well. if you look at the sample vechiles in Fred, you'll find that they tend to stick pretty close to the "appropriate" body for their mass. Which results in things like an Aircraft carrier with 28 body or so. This is a problem we HAVE addressed and bypassed in our games... it violates suspension of disbelief in a major way

Re: Paying points for Falling damage hmmmmmmm...... lets see..... movement powers are limited to 5" per segment accelleration... same as standard falling rules(why can't anything accelerate faster than gravity? how do rockets take off? Oh, right...advantages). Terminal velocity is 30". So... Flight, 30" (60 base) O END(+1/2) Persistant(+1/2) Inherent (+1/4) UAA (+1), AOE 1 hex (+1/2), megascale 1 hex =10,000 km.(+1 1/4): 300 active points No range (-1/2) Always On (-1/2)only to direct all targets downward towards the big hunk of dirt hurtling throu space (-1) 100 real points of course, this really only costs 1/5th the figured real points, as its part of the Earth's writeup as a base... And I recon you could add Concentrate to the limitations (The earth isn't known for its dodging ability, tho its velocity based DCV is a bitch) and Visible (the atmosphere gives it away) without too many complaints. Adding an activation roll and side effects is probably a bit over the top, tho OK... so yes, I think this is a lame discussion. Gravity. Not just a good idea. It's the LAW.

Re: Valdorian Age Sorcery - eternal youth doable? I don't know about ALL elemental powers being unable to provide eternal youth.... I keep thinking of the Ice Queen (or whatever she was called) from the Chronicles of Narnia (so very NOT S&S). Now, eternal youth without being a pale as death, perfectly preserved frozen form.. Talk to a god or demon.

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? While I am one of the advocates of an alternative mass chart (I won't go so far as to say I think the standard Superheroic scale should be dropped... I just think that an alternate should/ could be provided) the repeated references to the Marvel Universe keeps triggering a small alarm in my head. IIRC, shortly after the first run of the Marvel Universe Guide, somebody realized that too many heros had "Class 100" (capable of lifting 100 OR MORE tons) and so they reorganized for later products so that the top rating was Class 1000 strength. Still minor compared to the HERO strength chart. Which is fine, if you like such things. If you want to play a Supes type character who can lift the planet, then the current chart does work, assuming that you don't mind a 200 str brick in your game

Re: Dark Champions Campaigns I have to second this post.... This is one of my all time favorite, reccomend to all my friends books. The movie really didn't do the book justice, at all. I also like the idea of a DC X-Com game. Neat thread,all around.

Re: Magic systems in Champions Or a campaign rule that in desperate circumstances PC's may substitue for certain common magic limitations with others from the list at a double rate (so to sub for a -1/2 limit that you can't use, you have to take -1 worth of limits from the list) "Can you send that thing back to Hell?" "Well.... I usually breach the wall between worlds with the power of the Star of Morning, but they stole it from me. I might be able to raise the power from my staff of mastery." "You can do that?" "Yes, in theory. In practice? If the energy gets away from me then I might open a door that lets something that makes THAT *points at demon* look like a girl scout convention."

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? pretty easy, if you use various optional combat rules like hit locations and the throw modifiers chart from UMA Normal man falls down (equal to 1 hex fall) 1d6 damage. (or if you base the falling damage on mass, then he takes 2d6 base) probably was in motion say (3" velocity) for another +1d6 hits head on something hard (+2-3d6 depending on what it is) And gains perhaps another +1d6 from uneven surface So we're looking at around a 6 or 7 DC normal attack against a 2 pd 8 body normal, add a head location roll with the appropriate X2 body and yeah...its quite possible in game terms. The converse is even easier. Making normals survive long falls isn't all that hard...A lucky location roll coupled with a sucky damage roll can go a long ways. of course...this also supports some of the discussion about the systemic problem... its not hard to modify a "I've fallen and hit my head" attack to pack almost as many dice of damage as Mr. "I can lift 10 metric tons" throws with a punch

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? oh... and back to the inital question... yeah it bugs me. its why I don't think a 43 strength should be able to lift that much. I start thinking. I start pondering 10 ton lifting capacities. Figure that only half of that could be applied to an attack as opposed to the whole body lift. then focus those 5 tons of force into a fist sized surface area. Someone who cares more can calculate the foot pounds. So the "guy who can lift 10 tons" with the strength of a 100 men should be splattering people, in my mind.

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? reading through all the posts that have cropped up in the last day, I think I may be approaching an alternate idea. I'll leave it up to you scientific types to crunch the numbers... So I agree that the damage progression seems right, but the lifting power is off... I like the 2 DC per doubling. Now, one thing that I expect is occasionally overlooked, and not really borne out in the rules, is the statement on the Str chart that the maximum lift is the amount an individual can barely get off the ground, stagger a few steps, and then drop. This sounds like a much greater END expenditure than simply paying standard STR endurance, assuming that most semi-realistic portrayls of superstrength will have high enough other stats to allow them to exert themselves for about the same amount of time as a normal would. As pushing is now relegated to the realm of extraordinary adrenaline related circumstances, perhaps we need a "power lift" move that allows a doubling of lift capacity with extra end cost, perhaps full phase and/or reduced DCV. Maybe a "non combat" lift? This could mesh well with a scaled back lifting capacity And the +2dc = X2 mass/lift could also shift the mass/body scale to +2 body per X2 mass, which would make some of the bigger items a bit more reasonable. It does raise the damage on killing attacks if you're trying to also change the +1 DC = X2 joules to +2 DC + X2 joules. hmmmm.... I just realized that this does kind of reverse the "Supers do double damge against inanimate objects" idea...it ould assume that the normal hero chart reflects supers genre conventions, while a 2 for 1 chart would reflect a bit more grit... hmmmm....

Re: Strength Damage: Pathetic or what? The 43 str guy vs. the martial artist with staff comparison doesn't bug me, for a few reasons already mentioned. The doubling levels for mass, lifting power and body determination does. Its very geared, IMO, towards a 4 color game and isn't very granular at all. And the higher you go on the charts, the worse it gets. But honestly, this has been one of the few problems I've had with the system that I've never really been able to find a house rule to fix.

Re: Is Punisher the problem? Excellent post! Repped

Re: Reincarnation Power I'd do this as a Summon power... Something along the lines of Summon Reincarnation of self , trigger at death, 1 charge nonrecoverable, extra time (for little-un to grow into his new stats), summon appears at a random distance and location (next cub of species born) Similar to the Runequest Dragonnewts... used to love that.. one friend played a dragonnewt whos name, translated to Sartarite common tounge was "One who leaps high, kills swifty and dies often" The best defence is knowing that you are, in fact, immortal. Easy to work the charcter out of a game if the player misses a session too.."Well, as you ride down the road the party is ambushed by brigands. The opening shot puts an arbalest bolt through Swiftkillers head, so you'll have to bring along his body, mount and gear so he can track you down after he's reborn." I've used a variation on this power to represent "pregnancy inducing" powers Don't ask.

Re: Variable Power Characters in the Same Game A possible solution to the original problem presented itself to me as I was reading through the thread... Start all the players with the same base points, and Heroic rules, but vary the maximum number of disads based on character type, and make sure that a good chunk of any extra disads above the "human" scale are in the nature of supernatural disads.. vunerabilites, suceptibilities, physical or psyhce disads as "prohibitions" (like "can't cross running water" or "afraid of churchbells") This way, you might have 200 point Heros running around with a 350 point supernatural being... but the supernatural critter will have a healthy amount of weaknesses to counterbalance his superior power level. It'd probably help for you to write up some good starting "racial" packages... some of the ancestry packages from FH (divine, infernal, vampire, perhaps the elementals) and some of the Creature Templates from the bestiary might be a good staring point. Now..do you use NCM? I'd have to think that one through a bit. Really, I'd say it kinda depends on the feel you're going for. For an American Gods type game, I'd say yes. For a more fantastical game (Hellboy, Constantine, or Prophecy style) I'd probably rule that base characters must take NCM but get full point value for the disad, and "otherkin" may take the disad or not, as prefered and as appropriate.

Re: Odd 2x Stun rule When we play with knockback rules, we've always used the X2 Stun rule like this if the KB'ed character is KO'ed. It seems to make sence, in my mind... while I've never *really* sufered Champs style KB in real life... I have taken (in game terms) significant Knockdown while Stunned and hitting the ground in uncontrolled freefall with absolutely no ability to try and cushion for the impact is very jarring. like *tweet*tweet*tweet*, stars around the head, can't move, somewhere at the -1 to -10 stun (aware but incapable of action) state. This, if anyone is interested, came from a sheild bash to my unarmored face. Including Body damage (The broken nose took several weeks to heal). and in spite of the explosive sensation in my face, the impact with the ground is really what put me down.

Re: Pulp Hero While I understand that there may be distinct rights and ownership issues with updating Lands of Mystery to 5ER, I REALLY hope pulp hero will address many of the elements from it. The various types of Lost Worlds settings are a core subgenre of Pulp, and LoM did an incredible job of rekindling a childhood love for them in me. The second thing I loved about it was the character archtype section, including the parts about the relative starting strengths of the different archtypes depending on their "status" to the story. LoM led to many one off stories and a couple of campaigns, as well as leading me to scour local book stores and eventually aquire a LOT of E.R. Burroughs, H. Rider Haggard and other "period" authors. Its a really fun genre, and I'm glad it gets recognition in the gaming world.

Re: Harem question one solution that popped into my head is to use a cumulative mind control, RSR Seduction, with a linked small (say 1d6) uncontrolled transform with an increased time interval (say 5 hours or perhaps a day) that only works on targets who are under the effects of the mind control. Have the effect of the mind control add a disad to the controlled character. A strong Psyche limit as mentioned above would work, but another fun option could be Dependence with addiction modifiers. Thus, the mind controll may be broken, but then the character will have to deal progressively with the effects of withdrawl. Very similar to one of the characters from the Wildcards books.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs Hear hear!!!!! Excellent post, with a ton of neat observations. But this last point really does clinch it for me, as well... Repped

Re: Points or $ Threadjacker BTW...most sets of plate armor, historically, don't have any connection to ground. metal boots suck unless you're mounted. (I just got an image of Mr. burly fighter type lying on the ground with both feet blown off at the ankle after being hit in the chest wth a lightning bolt)

Re: Why that costume We carefully preserved, hoarded, traced copied and repro'ed our precious set of body blanks from the very 1st edition of champions. I think I first started learning my basic muscle anatomy from them. I still have NPC's floating around drawn on them. Good times! Most of my main characters have had fairly practical costumes. Vengance barely counts, being a battlesuit character similar to a human sized Gundam. So his "Hero ID" was just a red and white powered armor suit. Outside of the armor, he looks a lot like a sterotypical Miami vice era DEA agent. Rebel was my take on a flagsuit, another of the supersolider program types, who was stuck in a coma from the late 60's till his body finally finished metabolizing the various serums. I wanted to do a rich southern boy super that we could confront some interesting issues with. Confederate flag base to the suit, with frontier scout accessories (fringed boots & gloves, .454 casull in a classic gunbelt). Revenant had a costume for "formal" occasions when the Fountation made him wear it for PR reasons that was purple and black with iron age spikey bits... which was his main compromise. Most of the time he dressed punk. Especially as one of his favorite presence attacks was letting bad guys blow holes in him without much effect. Having a 12 gauge emptied in your chest is hard on a costume. generally it ran to the leather jacket with spikes, chains, patches and painting, torn fatigues, jump boots and a wife beater. Blackjack was my pride and joy... my ATF Champions character. Played him up from a solo street vigalante to the leader of a PRIMUS sanctioned Superteam. the costumes didn't really change, nor was it all that distinctive. Basic black bodystocking, spidey style, with all his various bits of gadgets and gear, weapons and tools, instruments and hardware strapped on all over the place. As time went on, the gear changed, but the basic character always dressed the same. Tho after he was hit with an inquest and investigation into his vigalante activities, his gear became a lot more four color.... Tho strangely enough, 4 other vigalantes started showing up over the next couple of years. Funny how those super-genuis gadgetter types can mimic other charater types with enough brains and labwork.

Re: Points or $ Black rose pretty much summed up how I'm inclined to do things as well... with the addition that I'll occasionally allow player to spend XP (or even starting CP) on a magic item if they can come up with a good reason in game for them to have it built for them (or have it in their character background). I see the point expenditure to be sufficently restrictive to allow it within reason. I have helped most of my players over the years "optimize" their magic using characters, as it can be rough for folk who mainly play Champions to wrap their heads around the degree of point manipulation needed to make straight point cost Fantasy Hero spells. With reduced campaign cost, talent based, skill based or VPP/MP based magic systems, the cost of spells drops enough that competnet combatant mages aren't really a problem. And I can find almost limitless ways to keep growing the abilities of non spell users with interesting talents and "superskill" style feats. Magic loot has never been a big part of my FH campaigns, and when magic treasure does pop up, its often quite odd. One game, for example, did revolve around gaining access to the "collection" of mystical artifacts a particular Jotun had hoarded. After a NASTY brawl with a 600 point frost giant, they deserved some good loot, so I stole a few ideas from an old AC article and included, amongst the prize, a set of items that were in effect one use artifats.... A rock that could raise a mountain, a twig that could make a bramble forest, and a flask that could pour a body of water. Very neat, uber high pointed items... and mostly worthless. Almost no combat application. Until, that is, when they were used at the climax of the campaign to allow the party mage and the elven archer type to hold of the Evil Overlords entire army by themselves. The main quest of the campaign was to seek a set of artifact level swords to beat the big bad. I made sure to write the swords up with WICKED side effects, related to their power... If the weilder wasn't divine, the swords would break down the weilders health. How many other fantasy games have you been in where a player owns a godlike artifact sword... and leaves it hanging over the hearth in his hall when he goes "adventuring". He won't take the damn thing down unless a world threatening menance pops up. He saw what one of these swords did to his friend.

Re: Girlfriend troubles derailing from the system effects for a second... I'm thinking he'd be really easy to track through online personals ads... where else is a 9 foot tall 4 armed demon gonna find a consistant supply of women who want to date him? "Hmmm... do a search for "Size Queens, race unimportant"

Re: First Round TKO Another option for dealing with this problem as a GM is to use a pro-rated variation of the "Hero points" idea that has been discussed in an earlier thread. Very similar to the other forms of GM fudge, but perhaps a bit more "fair" to the characters who didn't get layed out. I'm thinking something like giving a free recovery at the expence of 1 "pip" worth of unluck that will come back to haunt the player later in the same session (or game). One or two such recoveries should bump the character to a point where they can eventually get back to their feet, if not exactly back in full combat condition. And of course, you can always try and structure your fights so that they aren't all knock down drag out full session affairs... it is possible to have running skirmishs and the like as well, which can decrease the problem some.