atlascott

As a big, old nerd, I am concerned about declining sales in our hobby. It certainly isnt me--why, last night alone, I bought the Spacer's Toolkit, and I must spend about $300/year at least on RPG stuff. Alot of us older guys buy alot of stuff. I also noticed that the vast majority of guys at a con I was at last year are in the neighborhood of my age (36)--late 20's thru early 40's. I remeber going to GenCon years ago when it was in Milwaukee, and there were young-uns and old folks alike. I think we may be missing the young-uns. I also remember that gaming was a source of alot of fun for me when I was younger--it helped me make friends, and stay out of trouble. This hobby of ours, though snickered at by the general population (better than being burned at the stake, as was in vogue in the late 80's), is a clean, fun, healthy, great, lifetime pastime. You do not need to be an athlete or cheerleader or even good-looking to be successful and hae a great time! We need to make efforts at reaching out to troubled kids, shy kids, the loners, those with few or no friends. We need to get gaming in their hands, give it to them as a possibility for fun and friendship in their lives, through those hard, early years. Most gamers I know really blossomed in their late 20's or 30's into more confident and socially-able people. I suspect gaming helped alot fo us thru crappy teenage years. The question is: HOW DO WE DO IT? Or, should we?

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence "It isn't the reception of information that keeps your heart beating or your lungs breathing." BZZZT. Wrong, thats what nerve impulses (information) from the medulla does.

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks. But after a few xenovores have eaten some kids and weaklings, a few of those farmers are going to bust out with their coyote-busters or scythes and do some fighting. Those 4 Xenovores arent going anywhere but into the ground as fertilizer. Drop 4 commandoes with 15 strength, tech and body armor in the middle of an unsuspecting Xenovore encampment, and you're going to have alot of dead Xenovores.

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks. All I really meant was that Xenovores really dont invoke terror, with that big 13 strength. With a 13 strength and a bowie knife and body armor, a tough trooper is the equivalent to a Xenovore! Gimme a bio-tech monster killing machine with a 20 strength--now Im afraid that the bastard is going to bash right thru any door I might be hiding behind, maybe throw a car at me or something. If my live-saving technology fails me, it will rip me apart. A monster who, for all intents and purposes, is so superior to man than no normal man stands a chance against one in hand to hand. THIS is the kind of troop that decimates human populations across 100's of worlds. I need the emotionless invaders to have a massive advantage, not a marginal one. For 2 reasons: it keeps the good-evil line nice and clear and motivating for the PC's to figure out a way to beat them 'against all odds' and it makes every victory against this impossible opponent more heroic and significant.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs Dont get me started on WOTC books. Every time I run a game in our ongoing D&D campaign, I swear that I will never run another. The rules are all over the place, and are vague. 5th ED rules DEFINITELY explain stuff alot better than previous incarnations of HERO.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs Ok, Neil, I guess I'm not crazy, then. This might sound stupid, but 4th Ed felt bouncy and fun! 5th Edition is awesome, but I agree it is missing the WOW factor, or the 'must have it' factor.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs Hey, don't get me wrong--I'm the same guy who wants to convert ALL of my RPG's to HERO system! And as I said, I am not looking for, nor do I deserve, a refund. There is admittedly PLENTY of good content in ALL of the books I have purchased, Steve Long did a helluvva job with 5th Ed.--my main gripe has to do with the graphic presentation. That sure aint content, and coming from a person with no flair for the visual (me), eh, maybe you take it with a grain of sand. Maybe StarHERO wasnt my cup of tea because, being a monster fan of sci-fi, I never have a shortage of ideas, and being a vet GM, I know how to put a world together. And your points about 4th Ed Fantasy HERO magic system, and the book's role, is well taken (tool-kit, campaign world, source material all in one). And, maybe I overstated the criticisms. All of the HERO books I own I am keeping, not selling, and will use, and reuse. HERO is still my favorite system and probably always will be. And dont kid yourself, my greens will be electronically transferred to the Store the next time a book is released tickles my fancy. Im just very grateful that HERO was revived from its cold slumber...

This is meant as constructive criticism of a game system I really enjoy and have followed over the years. The 5th Edition rulebooks has sort of a soulless feeling to it, and alot of the art is sub-par, or recycled art of different styles which do not mesh well together. It also has an embarassingly-high amount of errata, and no, I dont plan on re-purchasing the same thing for another $45 bucks. For those who dispute the above, just compare the comprehensive 4th Edition rulebook to the 5th Edition. Fantasy Hero is indeterminate and fluffy--it could accompish its goal with 1/3 fewer pages and provide more details, examples, and concretes, like statted out equipment, characters, etc. Star Hero, Alien Wars and the Terran Empire. Star Hero is very fluffy with very little useful content as a percentage of pages in the book. All three books are self-referential, and in retrospect, it was unnecessary, other than for trying to get you to buy all three (which I did, as a fan of the genre). These are very fluffy as well, and the art is inconsistent in style as well, making for a bit of a disjointed experience in reading the book. As campaign books, they really do not impress or envelope the reader in the particular campaign world they purport to build. The settings feel extremely generic, the histories implausible and a bit boring (Alien Wars is better in this regard). I wouldnt want to run a campaign in either of these game worlds without so much tweaking as to make them completely unrecognizable. One start in AW would be to actually make the Xenovore individually more impressive. An average 13 strength for the species? Why were we afraid of them again? I know, this is a pretty negative review for someone who is a fan. Just keep in mind, HERO games has my money, and I haven't asked for a refund. Im just hesitant to buy any additional source material--I'll generate my own--and stick with buying rules. Does anyone else share these criticisms? Or am I having a bad day?

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks. Maybe it is part of the marketing plan, to release character books, and vehicle books for every genre. But when I pay for a huge genre book, i would like to think I am going to get a good amount of fully-statted-out characters as well as lots of statted out equipment and ships. Im pretty disappointed in Star Hero for this reason, and in Fantasy Hero for its lack of a definite treatment of magic and a meagre list of pre-costed-out spells. This is meant as constructive criticism of a game system I really enjoy and have followed over the years. The 5th Edition rulebooks has sort of a soulless feeling to it, and alot of the art is sub-par, or recycled art of different styles which do not mesh well together. It also has an embarassingly-high amount of errata, and no, I dont plan on re-purchasing the same thing for another $45 bucks. For those who dispoute the above, just compare the comprehensive 4th Edition rulebook to the 5th Edition. Fantasy Hero is indeterminate and fluffy--it could accompish its goal with 1/3 fewer pages and provide more details, exmaples, and concretes, like statted out equipment, characters, etc. Star Hero, Alien Wars and the Terran Empire. Star Hero is very fulffy with very little useful content as a percentage of pages in the book. All three books are self-referential, and in retrospect, it was unnecessary, other than for trying to get you to buy all three (which I did, as a fan of the genre). These are very fluffy as well, and the art is inconsistent in style as well, making for a bit of a disjointed experience in reading the book. As campaign books, they really do not impress or envelope the reader in the particular campaign world they purport to build. The settings feel extremely generic, the histories implausible and a bit boring (Alien Wars is better in this regard). I wouldnt want to run a campaign in either of these world without so much tweaking as to make them completely unrecognizable. One start in AW would be to actually make the Xenovore individually more impressive. An average 13 strength for the species? Why were we afraid again? I know, this is a pretty negative review for someone who is a fan. Just keep in mind, HERO games has my money, and I haven't asked for a refund. Im just hesitant to buy any additional source material--I'll generate my own--and stick with buying rules. Does anyone else share these criticisms? Or am I having a bad day?

Re: Women! Well, from my perspective, since about 99.5% of the paying customers are males, I'd use "he" as the pronoun of choice. Unless the feminists really WANT to kill more trees by insisting that the pronoun in question be expanded by 33% every time it is used (she is 1/3 longer then he), thereby causing the use of more paper, resulting in more clear-cutting of forests, reducing the oxygen and increasing the carbon dioxide in the air, and speeding global warming. If destruction of the environment is ok with the feminists, then I say, fine, use "she " in proportion to the readers (ie., .5% of the time you need a he/she pronoun). Also, I am all for extreme female sexuality being well represented in HERO games art. I might buy extra copies of every book were that the case. I buy the books for the rules, but purdy pictures every 5th page or so dont hurt either...

Re: [Newbie] problem figuring out this power I think the perfect power for this would be Ent-tangle... Get it?: Ent Tangle!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! (Realizes no one else is laughing at corny joke attempt--slinks off quietly)...

Re: A request for examples in sourcebooks. I brought up exactly this point on another thread, and I agree with you 100%. I have played HERO on and off for over 10 years, and yes, I STILL would like some fulled-statted-out examples of races/creatures. I was very disappointed in the Alien Wars book for not giving me statted out Xenovores of the various castes, with nifty pictures next to each...

I know that in heroic campaigns, your characters dont have to use CP's to build equipment. What they can afford, they can buy. In Modern Hero games, this isn't a big problem, I dont think, because everyone is going to be able to buy a handgun or rifle, and the rest of the game is some flavor of problem solving and fisticuffs. How do any of you guys handle balancing power levels in Fantasy Hero games? SPecifically, let's say the group aggregates to defeat the Powerful Wizard. Well, now the group mage has access and use of all of his high powered magic stuff, but Fred the Barbarian still has his Axe. In EFFECTIVENESS terms, Mr. Mage is a real tough guy, and the Barbarian is mot much different. Doesnt this defeat A VIRTUE of the HERO system--ie, CHARACTER EFFECTIVENESS BALANCE? MAGICAL stuff could really throw everything off. What do you think, and how do you guys handle it? The reason I ask is that I am about up the HERE with d20, especially the BS move from 3.0 to 3.5, where they basically tweaked everything they could think of just to get you to buy more books. I am about done running any WOTC product or game. And, I want to start running HERO in every genre of game we play. We have historically played Sword and Scorcery the most, but also have played modern/spy, modern and 1920's Cthulhu, modern horror/zombie/end of the world type games. Im unconcerned with everything except getting the group to accept a non-level based S&S game. What do you think? Actually, one of the things that sort of drives me nuts about the Fantasy Hero book is that it is sort of written in a "you can do it this way, or you can do it that way, or..." sort of style that means 3x the work fo a GM wanting to prepare a game. I agree that options are nice, but and OFFICIAL APPROACH to alot of things (like magic, eg) would be helpful and make it easier for me to digest the info as I read thru the book. Any comments/suggestion?

Re: 'Optimal' Travel Time Transit times, I agree, are a necessary part of any good game. Just a bit too technical for my game, that's all. Nothing wrong with it if you and your players enjoy it!

Re: Look at this character please... Do you need the hi, medium, low multipower settings on the laser? Dont you automatically get to decide how much damage dice you roll, and if you dont, isnt that a limiation whihc limits the power cost? If true, you could save a few that way...

Re: 'Optimal' Travel Time Call me a simpleton if you must, but do you really want or need that sort of detail in an RPG? Did Han Solo ever sit down during screen time and talk to Chewbacca about this? Or did they give their computer some time to figger it out?

Re: Looking for FEEDBACK on campaign idea I think that is a wonderful, compelling beginning to a campaign. Because it is an 'original' the players really will not have any conventions to fall back on, so make sure to brief them as to the state of technology (ie, in a Star Wars, campaign, everyone knows what a light saber, X-Wing, and a blaster are, and what they can and cannot do--in a previously-undefined future, make sure the PC's know this stuff BEFORE they even make characters). Maybe a written introduction for them about the state of the world and technology... I wouldnt worry about the railroading too much. Plot devices are always railroading--after all, most great plots follow this basic pattern: Introduce characters--Get Characters into trouble--get characters into even more trouble--characters get themselves out of trouble, and adapt/live with the consequences. Not too many characters WILLINGLY get themselves into trouble, so plot devices are necessary (or at least the kind of trouble you wish they woudl for ease of running the game!. That's why alot of series premieres need to be long--because the equivalent of introductory exposition needs to take place so the view (or in this media, the PLAYERS) develop an attachment to the characters and game world. What is your major theme, though? War? Exploration? Slow discovery of ultra powerful, ancient technology? Integration/discovery into an alien culture? Voyage home? With your setup, you MUST decide this before going any futher. If the Aliens truly are a warlike race, the most sensible thing for the PC's to do is figure out how the ship works and run like hell back to Earth, if possible. Even if the PC's fight off the Aliens in their first wave, what do they do when the Aliens come back with reinforcements? If the Aliens cant get into the tough hide of giant starship, what threat do they pose, and what purpose do they serve? Will OUR HEROS lead the alien race right back to a decimated and defenseless Earth? (An exploded moon would do VERY BAD THINGS to Earth). Once you know the major theme and tone, you can decide what can of worms you are opening for the PC's, and designing scenarios should be alot easier. It will be impossible if you dont define this stuff as well as tone first. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Re: My group voted ... It's Star Hero! AW is worth getting. The PD's are not the greatest, but are useful insofar as they are good examples you can work from. Free advice to the HERO staff--please stat-out enemies and members of races, dont just give a PD. I LIKE the character description and format with a neat picture of the creature next to it. I found the Xenovore section lite without this. A few 'typical' characterrs of each race might have been nice, too.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence I'm not a Troll, dude. That was a joke based on another guy's post adamantly asserting that balance is a sense like sight, 'end of discussion.' See my other very sweet apologetic post, above.

Re: To agree or disagree with Steve's answer Thank goodness none of my players ever get beyond wanting to reproduce fairly pedestrian super wpoers. Even my rules lawyer only wants the biggest killing attack he can get...

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Phil: if all your eyes, ears and nose did were process things already inside them, we'd be in real trouble. Obviously light bouncing off different things differently comes from outside the body, into the body, to help us interpret stuff on the outside world. SAme with smell--we are actually smelling particles of something without that came fromw ithout, into our nose. Same with sound vibrations. Contrast that with liquid in our ears being pulled downward by the force of gravity. As as far as blocking sense of balance not causing anyone to fall down, as long as they can see the ground, talk to anyonew with a bad ear infection or inner ear injury. Yeah, they DO experience vertigo. Obviously, no one is going to convince you or Basil of anything, so play the rules as you see fit. You aren't goign to convince anyone that HERO is broken because its doesnt contain the Sense: Balance.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Basil: A 'straw man' argument is one meant to direct attention away from the real issue. An ad hominem att ack takes the form of "Mr. X's argument is false because he is an alcoholic (or insert whatever name-calling you want)"--it is basically saying that, despite reasoning and the truth or falsity of the position on its merits, one should not give the idea any credit because the owner of the arument is a _____, and in the blank, insert whatever name you want. I agree that either is not fair argument. But I also deny using either. I did use the Hunger Boy and Balance Boy example, and I apologize if you feel that my post attacked you. I stand by what I wrote. By refusing to define the game effect 'block balance' has, you'll never be able to legally fit it in the hero system. Personally, it is my impression that the characteristic of DEX simulates sense of balance, and no 'sense' of balance should be appropriately added to HERO system rules, since any balance effecting power can be easily simulated with the rules which exist.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence What if I wanted to make "Hunger Boy," whose tremendous 'sense' of hunger gave him superhuman powers. HUNGER IS A SENSE. End of story. You are an infantile monkey with a speech impediment if you do not agree. So he could close his eyes and fight bad guys with this superhuman sense of hunger. He could shoot his hunger energy blast at whoever and make them hungry. He could mind control people and make them hungry. He could eat 20x his body weight in 10 minutes (probably a Tranform). This character conception is 100% within the rules. But, he would STILL need to define his "hunger sense" according to the rules--ie., fit hunger sense into the rules. Does his hunger send undulations in the space-time continuum, which bounce back to his massive belly, and THAT is how he senses the location of his enemies? Active sonar. Does others' hunger emit energy that bounce off his bulbous belly? Passive sonar. Get the idea? A sense in the game which cannot do what you want it to do inherently can only be defined as either extending the sense in a rational way, or by defining it using the other HERO system Powers. A "sense" of balance helps keep your balance. If you extend the "sense" of balance, you buy more DEX or something. No additional amount of DEX is going to allow the "sense" of balance to help you perceive things outside your body, other than the direction of the gravitational pull. So, build Balance Boy or Hunger Boy, but if you really want to build him according to the rules, and he is going to sense enemies (ie, make his 'sense of hunger' or 'sense of balance' targeting), then he must build them by buying existing sense powers and simply defining them as balance sense--but built with, eg, sonar, etc. And, Basil, by REFUSING to define what GAME EFFECT you want your "block sense of balance" power to have, you ask the unanswerable question. Because determining game effect is EXACTLY how you are supposed to build and balance characters in the HERO system. Or, if Balance Boy's "block balance" power does nothing, he gets that power for free. Because it has no game effect.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence Basil, buddy. Why can't I buy sense of strength as a targeting sense? Then my sense of strength would let me target enemies? Or why not buy sense of honor as a targeting sense? Same reasons. Because a sense of balance and a sense of honor are not senses in the same way as sight smell or touch are. A "sense" of balance allows you to stand and balance yourself. A "sense" of honor means you play by the rules. But neither provide cognitive information about the outside world. You need a sense of sight to tell up from down--a "sense" of balance just allows you to stand up! Take it another way--we see because light enters our eyes, things reflect light differently, and our brain interprets the differences as shapes and movement. WE hear because sound molecules bounce off one another and vibrate a seneitive peice of skin in our ear which our brain interprets as sound. Through what mechanism does one sense anything other than in-balance/out-of-balance with one's sense of balance? By what means would any discrimination beyond that occur?

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence I have to disagree. I think you are making this needlessly complicated, though I appreciate your detailed and interesting posts on the topic. We can argue academically what senses innner-ear sensation provides us. If that is what you are interested in doing, take a class at the local university. But for game terms, what do you want the power to do? If you really dont care WHAT combat or game effect it has, you can just call it a power effect of any other power and define it as "inner ear equilibrium disruption." Nausea or whatever effect you want to define that has no effect on anything is a free power effect. If you DO want it to have some impact on the game, then it is up to YOU to decide what game effect you want it to have. Another person modeling the exact same effect may choose a different route, a different power to emulate an effect on inner ear equilibrium. Neither route is wrong or right, assuming it complies with the rules. The "sense" of balance does not provide you information about the outside world in a useful cognitive sense, like sight or hearing does, for example. It merely allows us to keep our balance. So IMO, HERO does not need to imclude 'sense of balance' as a sense. It is a sense in a sense but not in the sense you suggest. You could build an entire hero whose ONLY powers derives from disrupting inner ear equilibrium. Or you could build one for whom it is a minor power effect. Neither is right or wrong or more correct. That is a strength of the system.