Chris Goodwin

Angels, being the messengers of God and some other theological stuff I don't recall off the top of my head, are pretty much exempt from sin. Considering that the message they tended to deliver was "You're going to die in about five seconds," I think they get a freebie on the "thou shalt not kill" thing.

Guys, it might just be time to let it go. I wrote up a couple of long postings, taking perhaps a little more time than I ought, had my fun, and let it go. Almafeta, for her (his? forgive me, I'm still not sure which you prefer) part is actually taking some time to ask questions about the system and learn more about it, which I gather she hasn't done before. And, she is getting straight answers about it. Are we so thin skinned that we have to flip out when we read something negative?

You don't have to allow that. Just because there is an infinite number of dimensions doesn't mean there is a dimension of anything I want. There is an infinite number of positive integers, and in that infinite number there is no .43 and no -5.

Ditto. I sent her (him? still not sure on that) a private message on RPG.net saying the same thing.

I can think of an easy one. The character has his own multipower and has a device built using a multipower.

Because it is 0 END, Persistent, and Continuous, you need to specify a condition that shuts it off, and probably a duration as well. Actually, if you're the GM, you can do whatever you want. Implying, of course, as long as the players enjoy it. Regarding Limitations to place on it, we need a bit more specific info, I think. What is the SFX? How does it work? Anything else I haven't thought of?

An honest review of Almafeta's review This is less of a flamefest and more of an attempt to address what Almafeta is saying. Pursuant to a discussion on RPG.net previously about what exactly is a roleplaying game, Champions and Hero are both one in every sense of the definition. Technical note: This has always been part of the system. The reason for this was actually to explain what happens when stats are Drained below 0. It is technically possible but highly unlikely for characters to buy stats to 0 or below in order for this to come into play. (Strength is an exception; many small creatures can have Strength scores even below -30.) You pay to have a negative Comeliness because it can provide you with a positive benefit. I'm not sure what the part about willpower rolls is about. Confusion with another stat? Points lost here for making a simple mistake that could have been rectified with a little reading. This isn't actually addressed in the rules. Two possible fixes: * Disallow casual STR for characters below 0 Strength. * At 0 to -5, casual STR is STR-5; below -5 STR, casual STR is twice STR. Hero, Cyberpunk 2020 and After The Bomb are hardly the only games out there in which there is a game mechanical component defining a character's looks. Skills divide roughly into four types: stat-based, background, languages, and combat. Stat-based skills (Agility, Intellect, and Interaction) all cost 3 points for a base roll of (9 + stat/5) or less, 2 points for +1. Background skills are 2 points for 11 or less (alternately, 3 points for (9 + stat/5) or less), 1 point per +1. Languages have a table and some explanation, but the basic idea is you pay 1-5 points depending on your fluency (1 point for a few words up to 5 for the ability to imitate dialects); literacy is 1 point extra. For combat skills, pay 1-2 points for familiarity with a weapon group, and buy Combat Skill Levels separately. I'm not sure what he means here. They are skills by several definitions of the word, and they are levels in the sense in which that term is used in the Hero System. How to use skill levels is explained in the sections under Combat Skill Levels and Skill Levels. One Overall Skill Level is written out as +1 Overall Level; it can be used as a +1 with any skill the character possesses or +1 in combat. See my commentary beginning the Skills section. Clairsentience includes the ability to perceive forward or backward in time. It's built as "the ability to see into the past, limited to things the user has personally perceived". Skill Enhancers are one of the basic building blocks of the system. I fail to see a need to increase the cost. If anything, it wasn't useful enough to cost 10 points; it doesn't really do a lot besides grant perfect recall. Still, this is opinion; if you see a need to increase the cost in your campaigns, by all means do so. Given an (at least partly) effects-based system, why not describe objects in terms of the effects? The description of handcuffs given tells you exactly what they are, exactly what they do in game terms, and exactly what needs to be done to get out of them. Sure, you could just write "handcuffs" down on an equipment list somewhere, but then you run the danger of assumption clash: how exactly do they work again? Had you read the entire description of Change Environment you would have seen that this is a false statement. You lose points for making an error that could have been rectified by simply reading the Power. This is also a rule that has been present since fourth edition. I can agree with this. There are other ways it could have been implemented; it should have probably started at +1 for 1 kilometer and gone up from there. I have no idea what he meant here. The basic rules for determining the cost of slots and the pool for an Elemental Control have not changed since third edition. One thing that did change is that in fifth edition, Drain, Transfer, and Suppress now affect the pool and all slots of an Elemental Control simultaneously (and this is in fact a litmus test for determining whether a group of Powers should be part of an EC). More points lost for failing to read. The section on grandfathering Aid Powers is right next to the one on Succor. (And what's wrong with the name?) Allow me to put this bugbear down like a rabid dog, here and now. There is no math in the Hero System that is any more complex than sixth grade arithmetic. Points lost here for outright falsehood. An NND Power is stopped completely by the appropriate defense. An AVLD Power still gets through; it is simply reduced by the appropriate defense. Hand-to-hand Killing Attack allows you to add your Strength. More points lost here for simply failing to read. The specific example you mention can in fact be built in Hero; see Change Environment. Change Environment, Summon, Mind Control, Telekinesis, and Transform are often used as "when in doubt" types of Powers. (And I'm not sure what he meant by "innate" features. Other systems' crunchy bits? Divine blessings are simple, as long as you have an idea of what you want the blessing to do, and I submit that D&D style magic can be completely emulated by the Hero System rules as written, using the fifth edition rulebook alone. I have serious doubts that the final result would be worth the sheer amount of work it would take, mind you, but it can be done.) It specifies that in this case you use money to buy equipment rather than points. Price lists are not given because those will vary by game world. This is incorrect. Meters (two per hex) and seconds (twelve per Turn) are in fact real world measurements. Which, in practice, doesn't happen. Incorrect. The mechanics for resolving Energy Blasts (combat) and Presence Attacks are different. Bonuses and penalties to CV last until the beginning of the character's next Phase (p. 253). The rulebook actually doesn't specify what happens with multiple modifiers to CV, unless it's somewhere it shouldn't be. Not terribly obscure. Its name is "count the BODY". I won't disagree on the organization, but I haven't found any incorrect page references in the index. The GM's option is to permit something that would either break the game or otherwise be against the rules.

On the validity of reviews, there's not a lot of top-down editorial control; they'll pretty much print whatever people send them. On the other hand, the community exerts a good bit of pressure, as you'll see if you read the responses to the "review". Several years ago the RPG.net reviews were pretty uniformly bad, usually in the area of being not informative enough. Pressure from people responding to the reviews have made them a lot more useful in this respect. You still have to consider the source, though, and don't just read one review (in fact, that's necessary anywhere, whether you're reading RPG.net reviews or Roger Ebert's movie reviews). Almafeta is well known in RPG.net as a Hero hater, so the source is easy to consider in this case.

My review of the review, posted on RPG.net I'm going to tear this one apart. -------------------------------------------- What Hero Is About: Hero is the settingless version of Champions, a superhero combat wargame. -------------------------------------------- Incorrect. Hero is a universal system based on Champions, a superhero roleplaying game. -------------------------------------------- Hero uses eight primary stats: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Body, Intelligence, Ego, Presence, and Comliness. These are priced oddly; anywhere from half of a point (Comliness) to three points (Dexterity) per +1. Generally, although the physical stats usually give you something every 'plus' you buy, you need to buy at least three points of a mental stat before it has any effect on characters in play. Characters can also now 'sell down' stats, to represent a flawed hero -- something that has long been needed. -------------------------------------------- Characters could always sell down stats, at least as far back as 3rd edition Champions. Minor inaccuracy: if you buy 1 point of EGO you hit an Ego Combat Value breakpoint. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #1: Since the stats can now be sold down, they added in mechanics to penalize those with low (below 0) and very low (below 30) stats (there is no lower limit, and stats do not count against disadvantage limits). Which was needed, surely -- but Comliness breaks this. First, you have to pay to have a negative Comliness -- and then you have to make willpower rolls to even move around because you're so very ugly! -------------------------------------------- This was not a reaction to the ability to sell down stats. The rules for stats below zero first appeared in third edition, officially disappeared in fourth edition, unofficially reappeared in fourth edition as optional rules, and have officially reappeared in fifth edition. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #3: There's still a Comliness stat in Hero at all. -------------------------------------------- So? In most other games I've seen that have a mechanic to represent looks, it may as well be a stat. -------------------------------------------- Skills cost a certain amount of points for a base roll of 11 (plus attribute modifiers, excluding certain skills), and then another certain amount of points for a +1 to the roll; each skill is a rule of its own, and requires you to look it up on a table seperately (shades of Palladium!). You also have to buy 'familiarities' for many skill, a boring but acceptable part of character creation. -------------------------------------------- Incorrect. Most non-background skills cost 3 points for a base 9 + stat/5 roll, +1 for 2 points. Background skills cost 2 points for a base roll of 11, +1 for 1 point. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #1: Combat Skill Levels. They aren't skills, and they don't always come in levels. -------------------------------------------- I'm not sure what you mean by "[t]hey aren't skills". They have been skills since as far back as third edition Champions. If what you mean is "They don't work according to the same mechanic as the roll X or less skills" then I'd agree. And I have no idea what you meant by "they don't always come in levels." -------------------------------------------- Caveat #2: Overall Skill Levels. As well as penalizing characters who buy heavily-skilled characters, -------------------------------------------- WTF? -------------------------------------------- every turn, you can trade them in for 'combat skill levels'. How, exactly, do we do this? Do we trade OSLs for CSLs on a one-for-one basis, or is it point based? How this was done wasn't explained. -------------------------------------------- Trading? News to me. Every phase you decide how to allocate your levels. It's pretty straightforwardly explained in the rules (page 38 for Combat Skill Leves and page 49 for Skill Levels). -------------------------------------------- Caveat #3: At first glance, it looked like they simplified the skill ssytem. They didn't. -------------------------------------------- For various values of "didn't". All of the non-background skills were assigned a stat. Third edition had many skills that were a flat 11-, fourth edition kept some of those, and fifth made them stat-based, costing 3 points for a base 9 + stat/5 roll, +1 for 2 points. All background skills are 2 points for a base 11 or less roll, +1 for 1 point. -------------------------------------------- Talents are the Feats of the Hero System; they're binary abilities you either have or you don't. In an interesting change, all Talents are now bought as Powers; although the costs are now consistent with those of normal 'powers', some of them had to be horribly contrived to fit in Hero's power structure ('Eidetic Memory' as Clairsentience?). -------------------------------------------- The most I can say here is that I might have done some of the Talents differently. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #1: If Talents were built this way, why weren't Skill Enhancers also built this way? -------------------------------------------- Skill Enhancers are not Talents. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #2: Because of the way they priced it, Eidetic Memory is now only 5 points, not 10. Poor move; its price needed to be increased, not decreased, due to its utility. -------------------------------------------- What utility is that? It doesn't provide a whole lot of game mechanical effect. -------------------------------------------- The most notable changes to powers in this edition were to Aid and Healing (doubling the cost), Change Environment (which does not actually change the environment anymore; rather, it inflicts combat penalties on an area), -------------------------------------------- The description of Change Environment would tend to disagree with you, especially the first paragraph. -------------------------------------------- and to senses and sense-affecting powers (they now operate by sense group instead of by sense, a rule I had been using in my own Fuzion games). -------------------------------------------- Present since fourth edition (original publication date 1989). -------------------------------------------- The biggest addition to the rules (no pun intended) is Megascale; Hero can now build Rifts-scale powers now. Good for campaign creativity, bad for balance; you can now fairly easily build a killing attack that has a 'megascale explosion' miles wide cheaper than you can build a guaranteed knockout punch. This section needed much more testing before being incorporated. -------------------------------------------- Agreed. -------------------------------------------- Some powers were merged in this edition. For example, Regeneration is now part of Healing (costs 0 END, is automatic, and affects the character only). That's a good thing. -------------------------------------------- I'd rather it was done differently. -------------------------------------------- However, why stop there? Since Absorb doesn't actually absorb damage, isn't it just an Aid with a Trigger? -------------------------------------------- More or less. -------------------------------------------- Shapeshift only affects your form as percieved by others, and does not actually change you -- well then, isn't that Images with Self Only? -------------------------------------------- I never agreed with the Shapeshift changes myself, and they require some contorted explanations (Shapeshift vs. Touch is used to change your physical form, for example). -------------------------------------------- Isn't Mind Link just Telepathy with a few extra bells and whistles already simulated by extant modifiers? I could go on. -------------------------------------------- Not quite. -------------------------------------------- Major problem: Unfortunately, Elemental Control was retained in Hero 5. Although it is now more difficult to determine the cost (a needed change), -------------------------------------------- ??? -------------------------------------------- the cost benefits are now as large or larger as they were in previous editions of Hero. (The examples given in the book granted 75 and 100 points free for a drawback that would normally be worth 5 or 10 points, easily making any character with those powers the most powerful in their game.) -------------------------------------------- I'm not sure what you mean here. The way Drain and Suppress affect Elemental Controls is pretty huge. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #1: Succor was added so that characters from Hero 4 with Aid could be easily 'grandfathered in' (5 points, costs END, both of which were changed in Hero 5). As well has having a stupid name, doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of fixing Aid? -------------------------------------------- I have no idea where you got this from, except that the section on "Grandfathering Aid" is right next to the paragraph on Succor. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #3: Yes, you still need to know precalculus to do the math in this section. Why not switch to a simpler algebra equation, I don't know; not to mention the fact that a system based on multiples of 5 is virtually screaming for a simple percentile system. -------------------------------------------- Incorrect. Completely incorrect. All Hero System math is arithmetic. By the time I finished sixth grade I knew enough math to handle the Hero System. There are valid criticisms about Hero System's math; this is not one of them. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #5: A ranged Killing attack costs as much as a melee Killing attack; there is no difference other than one reaches 75 tiles away per level. -------------------------------------------- Not true. A character's Strength adds to a Hand-to-hand Killing Attack. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #6: The system only works well for 'flashy', innate powers; it gets less and less usable the further from four-color you get. For example, an effect like 'warm up this room' cannot be built in Hero, because there is no point cost for 70 degrees Farenheit -- you'd have to make it a special effect of a 'real' power, i.e., one that has some kind of combat effect. -------------------------------------------- Missed the "+/- one Temperature Level" part, did you? -------------------------------------------- Good luck writing your own rules if you want Hero to do something that is not an 'innate' feature (such as a divine blessing or D&D-style magic). -------------------------------------------- In other words, you have to add rules if you want the game to do something for which it does not include rules. I thought that was true about every game. -------------------------------------------- Hero 5 makes the simplifying (and incorrect) assumption that something that is balanced for players is also balanced for Ferraris, buildings, and computers. For example, a dagger costs 10 character points; you could buy a Masters in english for fewer points. It is suggested in a few places that there is an option for 'heroic' campaigns to not have to pay points for gear; however, how gear exactly is purchased if not with character points is not explained. As this has not been fixed, a point was taken off of Substance. -------------------------------------------- There's this thing they call "money". Perhaps you've heard of it? -------------------------------------------- Combat is still based on tactical superhero combat; real-world measurements are eschewed in Hero, replaced by wholly abstract units of measurement. -------------------------------------------- Utterly and completely incorrect. One hex equals two meters. One Segment equals one second. In the universe I come from, meters and seconds are real-world measurements. -------------------------------------------- You get so many phases to spend per turn, based on your Speed (which is underpriced; expect to see all types of characters approching the maximum in every genre of game), -------------------------------------------- And look at the thousands and thousands of characters out there whose Speeds *don't* approach the maximum. -------------------------------------------- Caveat #1: Presence Attacks are still resolved like an energy blast. Even my copies ATB and CP2020 have shunned Hero now. -------------------------------------------- WTF? Energy Blast is resolved by rolling to hit (11 + OCV - DCV). If you hit you roll the damage, the target reduces it by his defenses and takes the remainder. Presence attacks are resolved by rolling 1d6 per 5 points of Presence, adding or subtracting dice for roleplaying and situational modifiers, and comparing the total to the target's Presence. I guess that one is "like" the other for wildly varying values of "like". -------------------------------------------- Caveat #2: Many actions you perform or situations you are in halve your DCV. What happens when you have your DCV is halved twice? Is it reduced to zero? Is it quartered? Does the halving only last for that segment, until the next segment, until the next turn, what? If these questions were answered in the book, I couldn't find it. -------------------------------------------- Probable oversight. In a book as huge as Hero, some errata are bound to occur. -------------------------------------------- Many times, you are told to "Roll Xd6 and figure the 'body'". This refers to an obscure section of the combat chapter. Please name this mechanic, if you are going to use it so often! -------------------------------------------- It has a name. It's called "count the BODY". Attacks that use this method are called "normal attacks"; this damage is called "normal damage". -------------------------------------------- The art is so-so. It is heavily biased towards superheroes, as suits the game's genre; some of the pieces of art are bad or inappropriate to their section (like the pyrotechnic on page 181, the nerd on page 195, or the unexplained... somethings... on page 345), while some pieces are excellent (the art piece on page 347, while simple, may be the best piece of art I've ever seen in a RPG). -------------------------------------------- I can't tell if this last bit is irony or not.

How do you know? Seen many angels and their lack thereof?

You can choose. Usually RSR uses the Power skill, of which Magic is usually a variant. Evocation would be a variant as well. It would probably be based on INT, unless there's a reason for it to be based on something else.

Re: Mage spells Skills as spells has been very uncommon historically, and in fact was never offered as an option until the most recent edition of Fantasy Hero. To answer your questions: 1. If you're going to make spellcasting work through Skills alone rather than by buying Powers, I'd advise using either multiple Skills for each school (or having "verb-noun" skills such as Throw, Shape, Create and Fire, Water, Light) or using a single skill for each spell. There's no reason they can't cost Endurance or Mana. 2. As always, your mileage may vary. It's usually not too bad if you require certain Limitations on them (usually Requires Skill Roll: Magic and -1 or more other Limitations) and if you require characters to pay full cost for each spell. If you get into Multipowers, you can see more power inflation. Wizards tend to be at least as skill based as other characters, having Magic Skill as well as others like Cryptography (need to be able to decipher weird magical texts), Inventor (Spell Research), various KSs (Herbalism, famous mages, schools of magic, classic spells), SCs (anything relating to a wizard's favorite type of spells), PSs (either PS: Wizard, or various PSs related to creating magic items such as PS: Enchanter, PS: Blacksmith, PS: Woodworker and the like). Not to mention at least a Weapon Familiarity and a level or two with it in case the spells fail.

Re: Wing build I see no reason why not. Flap Your Wings In Their Face: Flash vs. Sight, No Range Shed A Bunch Of Feathers In One Flap: Darkness vs. Normal Sight, Instant, No Range Flap Really Hard And Knock Them Down: either TK, No Range, AoE, Only For Throws or Energy Blast, AoE, Only For Knockback

The specific part you emphasized only affects a UBO bought 0 END, Persistent, and Uncontrolled. There's a lot of stuff in the Hero System that requires an "arbitrary" weakness or ability to shut off or reverse. Also, doing it this way doesn't require any new Powers or rules, a valid consideration when you're writing up characters for a convention game, getting into a one off game with people you don't know, starting a new campaign with a different GM, and the like. If you want it to cost END to give to someone but not to maintain, use +1/4 Costs END Only To Activate.

IIRC, the D&D Invisibility spell is permanent until the invisible person attacks. I could be wrong. That said: doing it with UBO Differing Modifiers you get this: Grant Invisibility. Usable By Others w/Differing Effects. Base Cost: 30 points. (See Edit paragraph below.) Advantages: 0 Endurance Cost, Persistent (+1) Uncontrolled (+1/2) 75 Active Points. Limitations: RSR, Gestures, Incantations, OAF. 21 Real Points. 0 END Cost and Persistent means that the Invisibility lasts after the target leaves the caster's line of sight. Since being invisible technically means he's out of your line of sight you'll want this anyway. Uncontrolled means that you use it once, then you're no longer connected to it and can use it again at any time. Note that according to the description of Uncontrolled, the GM should carefully look at anything bought Uncontrolled, 0 END and Persistent, probably including a set duration as well as a means to shut off the Power. That's built into your description already; duration 6 hours*, shuts off if the invisible person attacks. Edit: Just realized the Limitations on the base Invisibility double dip with this here. It should be 30 base points for the UBO, 75 Active, and 21 Real Points. * I don't like 6 hours for mathematical reasons. If each level on the Time Chart is approximately 5 times the level before it, 5 hours is closer to 5 times 1 hour than 6 hours is, and 1 day is closer to 5 times 5 hours than it is 5 times 6 hours. YMMV.

Re: Giving powers to others. You've more or less reinvented the wheel here. Use Usable By Others with the Differing Modifiers rules instead; you'll save yourself some points. Edit: Okay, maybe you won't save many points depending on how you work the final result. But it shouldn't be too hard to finagle a "fades automatically after X" Limitation on it which should bring the cost down.

I dunno. I created a D&D3 character a couple of years ago, choosing one that was deliberately a little complex (fighter 4/sorceror 3 or something similar) and it was every bit as much brainwork as a Hero character. I don't think that it's necessarily too complex, but it's a lot of work to learn a new system. While I own the D&D3 books, the system is every bit as meaty and complex as Hero, and I probably won't be playing a game of it (with the possible exception of pickup games where someone hands me a character sheet) because I really don't have the time to spend learning the system to the depth it would take for me to really enjoy doing it.

You were implying that the core mechanic of Hero was to roll 11 or less on 3d6, and that this was universal to skills and combat. I'll agree that you always roll 3d6 under a target number, but that target number is generated in fundamentally different ways for noncombat skills and combat.

This is Hero's basic mechanic, but it is not a unified mechanic, nor technically a core mechanic. Note that your post crossed my editing flurry just now so you may want to go back and see if there's anything else you want to address. There is a mechanical and conceptual difference in the way target numbers are derived for combat versus the way they are derived for noncombat, and this takes away from the "roll 3d6 under a target number" as the core mechanic, essentially turning it into two different, non-unified, core mechanics. As Snarf pointed out, GURPS does have a unified mechanic, handling combat and noncombat skill usage in exactly the same way.

But they're not both "roll 11 or less". If they were then it would have been presented that way from the get go, and then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that you get the same number in both instances doesn't mean that they're the same method. To go even further: with skills you buy your base skill for 3 points, buying it up by spending 2 points per +1. If you don't have the skill, you don't get to roll, except under extremely special circumstances. With combat, you roll 11-, plus your CV, minus your opponent's CV. If you don't have any skill at all you can still roll, at a penalty. These are not, mechanically or conceptually, the same. To come at it from the other direction: you can buy skill levels with multiple skills (as opposed to combat) as well, but probably no one thinks they're the same thing as buying +1 to a skill.

I would suggest Robot Warriors but it's almost impossible to find. Alternately I'd suggest a Battletech conversion. I've played in several Battletech conversions to the Hero System. Unfortunately I don't have any of the notes that we used, otherwise I'd post them.

No, combat is resolved differently from skills. Skill numbers are assigned when the skill is bought and are 9+STAT/5. Combat numbers are never assigned but are always calculated on the fly, and are always 11+STAT/3-STAT/3. The similarity is that in both cases you roll 3d6 less than or equal to that number, but it ends there. If they were the same, you'd buy combat skills based on 9+STAT/5. Or all skills would be based on 11+STAT/3-STAT/3.

Piffle. Any good munchkin knows how to work around this. "Oh, look. That tree I was aiming at just took 4,629 shots. I guess the rest of them scatter into the rest of the planet."

Amateurs, all of you. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7197&perpage=30&pagenumber=2#post127214

Thanks.