Narf the Mouse

 Champions of Might and Magic

There's a "Might and Magic" computer game series. Strategy games, RPGs, and at least one multiplayer game. The company itself went defunct, but last I heard, the IP had been picked up by someone else. Also, name confusion.

There's a sub-forum about POD. You might also check Jason's comment here:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/88037-hero-system-martial-arts-now-available/?do=findComment&comment=2327122

I'm aware of that forum. I put this thread here to be visible to 3PP who may not yet have given serious consideration to POD services.

As a suggestion for 3PP, why not put your books on POD? I'm interested in a print copy of "Here Be Dragons", for example, but I didn't have the cash to spare when it was available in print. In addition, you could offer the product in formats that weren't available with the original print run, like hardcover/softcover (if it was originally available in softcover/hardcover). I know I, for one, strongly prefer hardcover books for simple durability.

Just a thought; I don't know what market factors might play in.

HERO System Skills is now available from RPGNow.

Cool. I never got the first printing, so it's on my wishlist now, to buy soon.

Is the table of contents fixed? Mine has a few monsters out of place.

So, any news? Hopefully two months means this isn't "bugging".

Transform: Victim into Bella.

On second thought, if you put the Bestairy in hardcover and fixed up the table of contents, I'd buy it again. My softcover is showing signs of starting to fall apart, and a few of the entries are wrong.

I posted a writeup for this once.

The reception I got was a lot warmer. And not in a good way.

True.  But one must have rules in place before deciding when and how to break them.  

 

Or are you proposing special effect based power ratings?

 

Chris.

No; just pointing out the obvious for the record.

@NuSoardGraphite: Most of that can be abstracted away - And what I got from that is somewhat different than your conclusion, and that is that what we may need is a system for creating magic item creation systems, and build a specific magic item creation system from that; for that second step, we may indeed need a magic system.

So, up for vote:

Considering NuSoardGraphite's concerns, what steps if any should first be taken before continuing with this thread?

Suggestion:  

 

1: Trivial.  A few Active Points, maybe up to 1/4 the campaign max Active Points

 

2:  Minor.  Up to about 1/2 the campaign max Active Points.  

 

3:  Average.  Up to the campaign max.

 

4:  Powerful.  Up to 2x (or however much) the campaign max.

 

5:  Artifact/Relic.  Anything higher than Powerful.  These probably won't be created during the normal course of play by player characters.  Think Eye of Vecna, Mace of St. Cuthbert, Spear of Longinus, Excalibur.  

The problem with that is that in-game effect is not always the same as Active Points. For example, Life Support; Longevity (Immortal) is 5 Active Points.

Okay, from the system I copied I get the following ideas:

First you need to quantise the Complexity of an Item. All other steps you do will be affect by how complex the item is. If you have no way of measuring it, you will not get anywhere.

 

The Complexity should define a sort of minimal dififculty. So that complex stuff actually needs a certain skill level. You won't send a guy with 2 weeks course in Progrmamign to make a OS.

The Complexity also defines the time it is needed to make the item.* Time can be cut linerry by using more workers. Note that more workers also mean bigger chance somebody screws up a roll**

The Complexity also defines the cost of the finished item.* Note that traders might still variate from this price.

Raw materials for building items should cost a fraction of the final items cost. 1/2 an 1/3 are common. If there is a chance of failure, the cost for raw materials should be lower. Ideally there should be a chance of failure, that allows some more variation in prices.

Some actions take less time and skill point investmant than others. Repairing is a lot faster/cheaper to learn then Building the item. Before you build it you might have to design it or find a existign plan for it.

 

*Differenty classes of items (guns, rifles, armors) take different multipliers here. One might take Complixty Time Minutes, the others Might take Complixty times Days or Weeks. Also, characters should be able Trade increased difficulty for reduced time.

 

**You know why Windows has so many bugs that they bring 6+ updates out every month? It's giant piece of work, on wich hundereds of programmers have worked. Non Programmers will have a hard time even understanding the scale of writing an OS.

Thanks. I'm trying to keep the thread focused, and that is a good chunk of ideas to digest over.

I once wrote an Adaption of the Item Creation System from a SciFi RPG (not yet translated to english). Here is it:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/79619-crafting-system/

Please re-read the first post. This is not a thread for discussion of magic item creation systems in general.

Alternately, if you intended your link to contribute ideas to the discussion at hand, please remove the link and replace it with on-topic suggestions using those ideas, or describe the ideas you wish to contribute from the link

Ok, it has come to my attention that the goal of the thread was not stated very clearly. I apologize for that, and will update the first post to more clearly reflect the threads' intent.

I like the idea of a contest for new HERO System settings. If done, it should be made public, so we get non-forum input.

Made a couple additions to the outline. Nothing in the outline is definite at this point, of course, and it should be updated as discussion warrants.

Edit: Does anyone have a better name for the list of points in the first post other than "Outline"?

Anyone have any suggestions on how to setup a systematic way for mages to enchant items.  The Grimoire is fine for potion making.  I would like to hear how people are handling magic item But the method described in the Grimoire for Magic Item creation is less than satisfying.

 

Basically I would like to see a beginning apprentice enchanter have the ability to create minor/cheap magic items.  And then work up to the big stuff.  I have thought about using a VPP and then individual creation spells.

 

The controls on keeping the mages from becoming the "Ford Factory" of magic items would be time it takes to prepare (at least 1 week per 10 active points in the enchanted item - not the creation spell) and cost.

This thread is for the very purpose of creating a system for making magic items.

However, and this is a fine hair, it is not a place to discuss systems of making magic items, nor a place to discuss various rules-constructs for making magic items.

In short, it is a specific thread, not a generic thread, and general magic system questions do not go here.

Edit: The tone of this post seems to maybe not be the way I meant it. I meant it solely to clarify the purpose of the thread.

I would suggest the following type of formula (Spellbook Games has/had a PDF with the cost to hire someone to do work for you)

Dirt Cheap = X * average daily wage for average person in the area

 

So lets say the average daily wage is 2 silver pieces.  And you have decided that the cheapest magic item is going to be a luxury for the average person then the X should be 100.  So the cheapest magic item would be 200 silver pieces.  For the average person they would never save up enough to buy a magic item.  But for an adventurer that is pretty common.

 

Then just scale up from Dirt Cheap -> Outrageous by changing the multiplier (X).

I like this.

Edit: An idea to go with this. You could have setting templates, that multiplied the cost of certain powers by Y. For example, "Costly Teleportation" to multiply the market price of all teleportation magic items (whether they use Teleport or not) by some number.

Something like this should be campaign specific.  Meaning Turakian Age should have it's own Item Creation System and Valdorian Age should have a somewhat different Item Creation System.  Customize the system and mechanics to the campaign setting at hand.  This will go a long way to giving any official Hero campaign settings their own unique feel rather than feeling like a generic game world that uses Hero game mechanics.

Cross-post that to the thread?

Maybe something that hooks into the Optional Money System, or otherwise uses descriptors rather than money amounts.  Dirt Cheap, Cheap, Moderately Affordable, Moderately Expensive, Expensive, Outrageous.  In fact, given the difference in money systems between worlds, I'm not sure we can do anything but this.  

Hmm...provide a conversion table ("Dirt cheap: 1-15 silver pieces.") for a "standard" pricing, and make it clear the standard pricing is entirely optional?

I like the default magic system, and think it carries a distinct flavour - Several distinct flavours, in fact.

I am sure that there is some system in Fantasy Hero (of some edition) that we can subvert to make a decent Item Creation system that talks about money costs.

Thread.

Inspired by this post:

I am sure that there is some system in Fantasy Hero (of some edition) that we can subvert to make a decent Item Creation system that talks about money costs.

The goal of this thread is to build a magic item creation system which can be used in most styles of fantasy. Basically, it's a thread to build a magic item creation system, not a thread on magic item creation systems; a subtle but important difference.

An point-by-point outline for discussion and contribution will be maintained here in the first post. It should be added to, modified and removed from based on discussion in this thread.

The current outline consists of:

1) The system should adapt to low-fantasy and high-fantasy.

1a) Axis 1: How much money the characters have. More powerful magic items are more expensive.

1b) Axis 2: A sliding power scale, (from 1 to 5?), that caps which magic items are available and how powerful they can be.

2) A generic cost structure using levels of: Dirt Cheap, Cheap, Moderately Affordable, Moderately Expensive, Expensive, Outrageous

2a) A generic cost system, based on X * The cost of the enchantment, where the cost of a "Dirt Cheap" enchantment is based on average wages in the area.

Q&A:

Q: Why not just use HERO System?

A: The magic item creation system will use HERO System. However, HERO System does not, and cannot, handle in-game pricing in monetary units, or setting-specific details. A magic item creation system can address that need, for a large subset of fantasy campaigns.

Q: What do you mean by "Magic item creation system"?

A: A system which defines how a character (not a player) gets from components to a magic item, what powers that magic item has, and what type of item (wand, potion, scroll, weapon, shield, etc.) it is, as well as how much that item costs, at least in general.

About a year and a half ago I posted a thread in the Fantasy Hero forum entitled "What have you used?"  It seems that generally, people use everything as written except the spells; the responses on spells ranged all over the place.  I'm not sure why, but it makes sense; back to first edition FH my group used everything as written except the spells.  Anyone who played a wizard wrote up their own spells, more or less without fail, including me.  This seems to be the case regardless of edition, also.  

Well, yeah. The official spells are wrong all wrong, and I must fix them!