Toadmaster

Re: Stopping Natural & Unnatural Disasters

Re: Playing with SPD and time Well considering I have played alot of carwars with 1/10 second phases, a 1/2 second segment wouldn't bother me in the least. Also I'm dealing with heroic games where a Spd 2 or 3 is common and 4 is fast, a Spd 6 would be almost super human. The current speed has never really been a problem since everything is relative, but if you spend to much time thinking about it does start to look like slow motion. Just thought it might be an easy adjustment. Going off HERO's speed chart most people would be much closer to a speed 4-6, not 2. As far as the cost of powers, yes they would effectively double in price to maintain the same duration but their effectiveness would be about the same since it effects the same number of segments. Of course it might just be easier to double character speeds which would have the same basic effect without all the adjustments.

Re: THE ULTIMATE SPEEDSTER -- What Do *You* Want To See? I will get this book as I have all the Ultimate books, even though I'm not sure how much use this particular book will be to me (it seems much more useful to Champions than other genres while I could easily see the use of the other books to multiple genres) but what would really make it worthwhile to me is a good discussion of Speed, movement powers and how they work in general not just related to Speedsters (basically include a how the rest of us live to contrast with speedsters), this looks like it might be covered in Chapter 4 but I thought I'd throw it in.

Re: Conceptualizing Speed You could go either way, assuming a Spd 2 normal runs 12" a phase (non combat) that would be a 50 yard dash in just under 12 seconds (pretty slow), even +6" running would only bump this up to a 5-6 second 50 yard dash as would doubling Speed to 4, so my guess is Spd 3 with some extra running, since that would keep everything well within the NCM although it could be done several ways since I don't think an olympic athete neccessarily needs to be fully within the NCM. Oddhat pretty much sums up my concept of speed. (world record 50 yard dash is in the 3-4 second range, there were kids in my Jr high were doing a 5-6 second 50 yard dash, while I was in the 8-9 second range and considered pretty darn slow). As has already been mentioned by several, there are many ways to represent things, if you want something that is very responsive you need to use more speed, if it is just fast then a movement power is probably what you want to use, Ex an Indy racer (high spd and lots of movement) vs the Blue Flame rocket car (tons of movement but probably no extra speed, maybe only speed 1). Now this is just me, but I would say the blur bit would come in somewhere around 500-1000 miles per hour (lets say when you exceed 1000" per turn Non-combat), to fast to fully see? faster than that. But keep in mind in game terms you could do this at any speed by buying additional powers linked to your speed and even by reaching the high speeds I mentioned if you wanted it as something more than just a special effect (for example if you wanted to have limited invisibility) you would need to buy that as a power.

Ok, some of the recent threads on Speed got me thinking about this. A normal with a Speed 2 basically only gets 2 actions in 12 seconds or each action takes 6 seconds. Since most PC's have a speed 3 or 4 even in Heroic games I've never really givin it much thought since their actions are only 3 to 4 seconds long which I don't have a hard time accepting when I actually think about it. One of the threads was about 1-1 action or an action actually being several actions, I can believe the second for some things but not others (charges mess that idea up). So what I was thinking of changing the length of a segment to 1/2 second, which would make a turn 6 seconds instead of 12. That way a normal (speed 2) would have 3 second actions which seems more acceptable (seems less like act, stand around, stand around, act). Obviously movement would have to be adjusted (halved) and there would be a few terms that would need some adjustment (turn = 6 seconds, minute is 10 turns etc), but otherwise I really don't see any serious issues this would cause, characters would get recoveries every 6 seconds (phase 12) instead of 12 seconds but would also be spending END faster so it should keep the same balance. I know this probably seems like a silly idea but I thought it might fit with my prefered genres better and would be a pre-emptive strike for those "you can only shoot a gun twice in 12 seconds"? questions. Have I missed any issues such a change would cause?

Re: Seemingly Silly Things to Model There was a politician in the mid 80's that had an ad that basically just kept saying his name throughout. Anyway it gave me an idea for a stupid disad. I used for my Superheroic demon Mr Apocalypse, whenever he entered the picture a loud voice would announce him. (Big Tonight show style intro) "Iiiiit'sssss Misterrrrrrrr AaaaPoCaLypssssssssssse" Phys lim, incapable of steath. Whenever the character enters a new place, a disembodied voice loudly announces the character.

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back?

Re: Is it time for people to stop making new RPG systems? This has been tried before, Flying Buffalo had a series of books (Cities, Grimtooths traps, Butcher, Baker, Candlestick maker are a few that come to mind), Roleaids was another product (I don't recall who did that series) these were basically non specific game rule products, some were settings, some were places (Cities went to at least 4 books), some were flavor (Butcher, Baker, Candlestick maker was full of service type NPC's, there were some other books with other NPC types but I don't recall the titles), some were just plain mean (the Grimtooth series). I don't see any of those around anymore so I would guess that probably says something about the feasability of the product.

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back? I think people have grabbed onto a different idea than you, when I read your first comments my thought was you were reacting to a book basically saying here is how you role play, immediately followed up by using a less efficient character design is wrong. Anyway that is what I picked up on and that would annoy me as well. While any game is certainly capable of min-maxing and HERO is definately not immune, I have always felt d20 actually encourages the idea. HERO does provide some benefit for not using the most efficient build (lims, disads etc) while there is really no mechanism in d20 to do so.

Re: Stopping Natural & Unnatural Disasters

Re: Negative Experience

Re: Stopping Natural & Unnatural Disasters No the only thing that stops a Tsunami is high ground, I'd like to see these dykes and levies that can stop a Tsunami, I would guess what you guys are talking about simply divert high water away from sensitive areas, not actually stop a Tsunami. I mean lets think about this to stop a 60 foot wall of water you need like an 80 foot tall wall or it will just come over the top, plus that wall has to be many feet thick to stop the tons of water facing it (and a 60 foot Tsunami is just baby stuff). This is an area where reality and genre don't meet, supers stop such things fairly frequently but reality natural forces are extrememly powerful, take a forest fire for example (something I am more familiar with than Tsunamis), we simply don't have the ability to stop one once it gets going, unless we remove the fuel for a mile or more in front of it (even then it is likely to just hop over and continue on its merry way). A Tsunami is not really any different, you might slow it or even divert it but you really can't stop it.

Re: Is it time for people to stop making new RPG systems? Absolutely not, I love looking at game rules to see how people come up with ways to do something. Some are just poorly done rip offs of other systems cough Palladium cough, but many offer new and clever ways to apply rules. I love to tinker with rules to find the ultimate combination of simplicity and down to the molecule detail. While HERO is close the ultimate game has not yet been invented, until it is I will welcome all new systems, even the bad rip offs (although I probably won't buy those until they are in the $0.99 bin during the buy 2 get one free sale).

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back? I started playing D&D in 1977-78, followed by Traveller and Runequest, then I bought Champions at the Dundra Con in 1981 or 82 from (I'm guessing) Steve Peterson or George MacDonald. Didn't play it much, mostly just used it to design scantily clad female heroes costumes (come on now, I know I'm not the only one). In 1983 I finally found a group that played Champions in between other games, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Stalking the Night Fantastic, Aftermath, Daredevils, MERP, Morrow Project, Twilight 2000 and a few others (wow the early eighties were really good for gaming) that changed when Fantasy Hero and Danger International came out as we started playing HERO almost exclusively for several years. In 86 GURPS came along and diverted some of our gaming time away from HERO, but GURPS was not liked by all so it did not replace HERO. In 87 or 88 we sort of transitioned back to D&D as we had added a good DM to the group but he was much more comfortable with that system. When 4th ed came out (89-90?) we hit HERO again big time, unfortunately by the early 90's life was taking alot of our time and gaming was seriously reduced, in 95 my best gaming bud (and my co-conspirator to keep the group under HERO) died and much of my gaming interest did as well for many years after. So the reasons for returning (well actually pretty much sticking with) HERO, besides the fact HERO is pretty Gnarly? I guess it would be I know it better than any other system except for BRP (Runequest, CoC), and I have alot of good memories tied up with the system. It doesn't hurt that it is very intuitive, and works for almost any game I want to play. Another aspect that I find is pretty much unique to HERO / GURPS is fiddling with character / item builds is almost as much fun as actually playing. In many aspects I think the system peaked with the 3rd Ed but the 4th and 5th editions have added worthwhile contributions and DoJ certainly deserves some thanks for getting us so much new material.

Re: If YOU have been playing Hero since the 80's why do you still keep coming back? Actually I am told GURPS is largely based off the Fantasy Trip, which did pre-date Champions (1979 or 80?). However HERO obviously did play a part as SJ gave credit in the intro to GURPS. Also GURPS was in part around before 1986, Man to Man came out in 1985, it was basically the GURPS combat system and included a very simplistic version of what became GURPS as an RPG portion (basically just some combat related skills and experience), it worked great as a gladiator RPG. GURPS and HERO continue to influence each other although I suspect that a detailed study would eventually find that GURPS has become like HERO more than HERO has become like GURPS. Yes Espionage was before Justice Inc, this may be off a little but should be close (and is in the correct order even if off on the year), as I recall the dates are Champions 1981, Espionage 1982, Justice Inc 1983, Fantasy HERO 1984, Danger International 1984 or 85, HERO as a Generic system 1989 or 90.

Re: The Ultimate Disadvantage, talk about it here When I read the first part of this I didn't like the idea but when I got to your examples it would fit very well into some genres, particularly supers where many characters would compensate for many disads, particularly gadget heavy characters.

Re: post-apocalyptic genre book Another good book for PA ideas is BTRC's Down in flames, it offers 13 end of the world themes for campaigns. It also has maps of the earth in various states of dried up, frozen or extra wet. http://www.btrc.net/

Re: post-apocalyptic genre book Aftermath covered all this in 82 not the best rules but great reference material.

Re: The Ultimate Disadvantage, talk about it here

Re: Alternative lasersight builds? I'm still interested in your thoughts on splitting OCV / RMOD between braced, set and unbraced unset. I like the idea and have toyed with it but not really done much with it. What I would like to do is have high power telescopic sights be a hinderance without taking time to aim properly (perhaps even a second set action for the really high powered 12x + sights), while low powered sights require only a brace action to get full effect. I would like sights to be much more than just a + OCV / RMOD, I have seen very few games that have penalties for high powered sights, but in reality there is a reason you don't see 16x scopes on assault rifles besides cost, even most sniper rifles are 10x or less. High power sights are bulky and slow to use but offer great advantage when the time is available to properly aim them. Also it could give an advantage to variable power scopes (3x 6x 9x) over fixed power scopes, again in real life there is a reason people will buy a more expensive, more complicated scope, they are adjustable allowing the best of both worlds, high power for range and low power for quick use. I have some hand wavium ideas but I would be interested in some within the rules ideas as well as other ideas along the same lines (either rules or concepts).

Re: Alternative lasersight builds? Mine is almost identical to Edsels, +1/+1 range 32 or 64, really the only difference is I use Dex modifiers for weapons (for initiative purposes) so if a weapon is equiped with a laser sight I give a +2 dex mod. I personally have never used a laser sight but some of my friends have, none were terribly impressed and at least one complained it kind of confused him, he kept changing his focus between the sights and the laser sight dot. I really think the movies have really played up laser sights, because laser sights are now very cheap (about $200) and very small (can fit along the trigger guard of a pistol) but they still really are not all that popular. I have a couple of friends who are police officers and I also work with quite a few police officers, very few use laser sights (in fact I don't think even one that I know does). I like the idea for the split braced not braced, I was toying with a similar idea for telescopic sights, low power tend to be quick to use while high power are impossible without taking some time to stabilize it and get it on target. However with a laser sight the one advantage they seem to have is not requiring the gun to be at the plane of the eye (you can aim the gun from under a table or other location not visible from the shooters eye) and they can be a little faster than plain iron sights since you are just putting the dot on the target.

Re: Damage: Realistic vs. Epic and to take what Thia said one step further it allows you to adjust the games reality to your view of reality, how often have you seen stats in a game and your first thought was "what were they smoking when they stated that out" if you think the stats are wrong its easy to adjust them and it rarely knocks the rest out of whack.

Re: The Ultimate Disadvantage, talk about it here Me too, that is a much better description of what I'd like than I could give That pretty well describes my feelings as well, except I take it a step farther because I don't feel like disads get the detail and support they should get considering hw central they are to HERO charcter design.

Re: The Ultimate Disadvantage, talk about it here Ok, here is what I would want to see as disad write ups, not just Alcoholic Dependance, must have a drink evey hour or suffer incompetence, very common, addiction 15 pts But a brief description of alcoholism / abuse, what it does to the body, how it would likely impact the game, how to include it in the game. Levels of alcoholism, obviously the one above is pretty severe but it an be worse, people can die from not getting their alcohol. However many people are alcoholics at a much milder level, there are also those who really don't have a physical addiction but just like to drink too much, so I picture something like this. Description (obviously this is fairly weak since its off the top of my head) Alcoholism can be addictive, long term effects typically attack the liver. The disease is largely a psychological addiction but in more severe cases it can be a physical addiction, deprevation can cause flu like symptoms, seizures, halucinations and death. Alcohol poisoning can occur when the body cannot process the alcohol fast enough, this can lead to unconciousness, seizures and death. In some times and places alchohol is illegal which makes it harder to obtain (and some examples of the various times, places and penalties for drinking). Extremely severe alcoholism Dependence, very common, must have a drink every day or Suffer 1d6 damage, incompetence and weakness, addiction 25 pts Severe alcoholism Dependence, very common, must have a drink every day or Suffer incompetence and weakness, addiction 20 pts Alcoholic Dependence, very common, must have a drink every day or Suffer incompetence, addiction 15 pts Mild alcoholic Psych lim, common, often drinks to intoxication after work, accepts most offers to drink (must make ego roll to decline), moderate 10 pts Binge drinker Psych lim, uncommon, when pressured by peers the character has little resistance to excessive drinking (must make ego roll to decline), Strong 10 pts Social drinker Psych lim, uncommon, when in a social setting with alcohol the character often drinks (must make ego roll to decline) moderate 5 pts Genre conventions of alcoholics (and ideas for playing them) The lovable drunk (Otis from the Andy Grifith Show) The falling down staggering drunk (pretty much any Dennis Hopper character) The fuctioning drunk (lots to pick from particularly in movies of the 30-40's) The Frat boy (beer bong!!!!!) The closet drunk etc

Re: The Ultimate Disadvantage, talk about it here Exactly, I don't see this as just a collection of disads but a book that expands the disad section, look at ideas for the various disads and show different ways to represent them. Give examples of disads that could be a phys lim or a psyc lim and how to decide which to make it or what the effect might be, example alcoholic (uncontrolable urge to drink and possible physical impact for not drinking, DTs) vs social drinker (habit and peer pressure). Get into the frequency of occurance, how do you pick 8- vs 14- (it should be more than how many points you need). If your employer is a watched do you decide between 8-, 11-, 14- by the size of the employer? how secretive they are? if you take 14- does that mean they think you are up to something or simply that they watch all their employees closely and have a good network to watch you. How as a GM should you use these disads, how many of you have been in games where the GM literally rolled for everybodies disads with the resulting game being more about the disads than the campaign? I have on a couple of occasions. How about games where everybody has to take a disad like subject to orders, if all the PC's work for the same place and they are sent on missions (which the campaign is based around) is that really a disad? Basically flesh out the disad section, make it a real part of the system, make it more than extra points or a role playing crutch. Disads should be there to give characters extra point for having some character, not because the game is a 50+50 game. How about some guidence on letting player take more disads when approprite or how to encourage (reward) players for not using all their disad points if they don't have a concept for the disads. and again more disad ideas that might be used to develop a character around a disad instead of simply working disads into the character.