zornwil

Hi Willis, I can't add anything to what others wrote, however, you might want to post the things you like or "expect" to deal wtih re GMing and what things you don't like to think about when GMing. Also, what sort of game (power level/genre) you want to play. That way we could suggest how well HERO might fit and what things you might want to tailor. I'll just add the two cents that I think HERO is a bit rough to GM if you're not experienced in that or in HERO itself. The best way to make it less rough is to dispense with a lot of the more detailed combat rules (ignore END; ignore STUNning even) the first time or two or three through. In fact, main message I would have is, do NOT get hung up on the rules. Sure, there are a lot of them, but the core system is strong enough to work well without sweating all the details.

As well you should, as I now feel sick. And I thought that the Batman and Get Smart TV shows with the go-go dancing were scary!

For magic resistance, I actually have another derived characteristic, SD, Supernatural Defense. INT/5. I used INT because it seemed to me that in the comics those super-brainy types (Reed Richards, Batman) resisted magic unusually well. I figured their lack of belief or facile minds or whatever fit with INT.

Re: Christopher Walken Fantastic idea.

Thanks, I really was just too lazy to go through the math!

This is the crux of difference in my question versus what you really meant. I thought you meant on the order of 1/10 of this number around the world of true superhuman abilities. In which case the pool is pretty small although "realistic" for some campaigns. But all your suggestions/posts were pretty interesting, thanks.

Q: Is it true that actually Lucifer was ejected from Heaven for crying and not for rebelliousness/arrogance? A: Bumblebees but only on Monday.

I can't get HTML tables to function here, really weird. So anyway here's another text version. This one is Bud Girl. Bud Girl Val Characteristic Cost 8 Strength ?2 8 Dexterity ?6 8 Constitution ?4 8 Body ?4 20 Intelligence 10 40 Ego 60 30 Presence 20 30 Comeliness 10 2 Physical Defense 0 2 Energy Defense 0 4 Speed 22 4 Recovery 0 16 Endurance 0 16 Stun 0 Characteristic Rolls: STR: 11?, DEX: 11?, CON: 11?, INT: 13?, EGO: 17?, PER: 13? Run: 6", Swim: 2", Jump: 2", Lift: 76kg Cost Powers END/Roll 30 Elemental Control (30?pt reserve) a?30 8d6 Mind Control; Communication: Verbal, +0; Reduced END: Zero, +½ 0 b?37 3d6 Drain (Return/turn); Range: 0; Affects: All Powers of Special Effect, +2; Focus: Obvious Accessible, ?1; Reduced END: Zero, +½; Drain on INT, EGO, DEX ? but must convince to drink "Bud" first 0 c?165 12d6 Mind Control; Communication: Telepathic, +¼; Area Effect (Radius): 14" radius, +1; Reduced END: Zero & Persistent, +1; Area mind control, no one wants to harm her. 0 Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll 3 Acting 15? 13 Disguise 16? 3 Persuasion 15? 15 Seduction ??? 150+ Disadvantages 20 None?too?bright (Very Common, Strong) 20 Coward (Common, Total) OCV: 3; DCV: 3; ECV: 13; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 PD/rPD: 2/0; ED/rED: 2/0 COSTS: Char.: 106 Disadv.: 40 Powers: + 296 Base: + 150 Exp.: + 5 Total: = 402 Total: = 195

Okay, finally, here's the stats that I have now. Please note these are just GM versions so they're not fully fleshed out and some rules may be broken. They should just give you an idea. Also, in my games I have Mental Defense and Supernatural Defense. I didn't tweak the HTML output to include those, but i don't think anyone cares since it's particular to my games anyway. Game Show Host Val Characteristic Cost 10 Strength 0 15 Dexterity 15 15 Constitution 10 10 Body 0 25 Intelligence 15 25 Ego 30 35 Presence 25 16 Comeliness 3 2 Physical Defense 0 3 Energy Defense 0 8 Speed 55 5 Recovery 0 30 Endurance 0 23 Stun 0 Characteristic Rolls: STR: 11‑, DEX: 12‑, CON: 12‑, INT: 14‑, EGO: 14‑, PER: 14‑ Run: 6", Swim: 2", Jump: 2", Lift: 100kg Cost Powers END/Roll 10 Elemental Control (10‑pt reserve) a‑42 9d6 Mind Control; Communication: Verbal, +0; Reduced END: Zero & Persistent, +1; No Conscious Control: ‑2; Area Effect (Radius): 9" radius, +1 0 b‑8 6d6 Energy Blast; Range: 185; Versus: ED; Conditional Power: Usually, ‑¼; Reduced END: Half, +¼; No Conscious Control: ‑2 1 c‑3 4d6 Aid (Fade/turn, Max. 24); Range: 0; Affects: Single Power, +0; No Conscious Control: ‑2; adds to STUN 4 d‑10 Shape Shift (Limited Group); Game Show Hosts 4 30 Armor (10 PD/10 ED) Cost Skills, Talents, Perks Roll 40 Follower (4, 148 pts, 0 Disad.); Number: 4, +10 3 Concealment 14‑ 17 Conversation 23‑ 23 Gambling 21‑ 3 Inventor ??? 3 Acting 16‑ 7 Persuasion 18‑ 3 Seduction ??? 7 Sleight of Hand ??? 150+ Disadvantages 25 Berserk (14‑, 8‑, Berserk); Circumstances: Uncommon, +5; When people don't participate in his game shows 25 Believes Own Hype (Very Common, Total) OCV: 5; DCV: 5; ECV: 8; Mental Def.: 0; Phases: 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12 PD/rPD: 12/10; ED/rED: 13/10 COSTS: Char.: 153 Disadv.: 50 Powers: + 209 Base: + 150 Total: = 362 Total: = 200

Has it really been over 2 months? Sorry to take so ridiculously long, but this was never forgotten. My "to do" list is out of control. This writeup is actually not dead-on. It's the only version we did as a reference, some of the things in here actually should be modified but I'm not going to take the time to do that. Essentially, I did this write-up after the player sent me the base info, and he indicated there were some things that he just wanted considered as SFX and therefore wouldn't have anything more than potentially a cosmetic effect. I never went back and modified the write-up. Also, I know that bases generally can't have followers. One of them below I am allowing to be a base follower, he's only effective around the base, and the other was moved to be a player's follower. Given those caveats, here it is - Justice Squad HQ Cost Base Characteristics 9 DEF 5 3 BODY 5 24 Size 12, 1,512 hexes (65,076 sq ft), DCV -12 0 Grounds 0 hexes Area - HQ Proper (46×28 = 1288 hexes) Area - Basement (8×7 = 56 hexes) Area - First Floor (8×7 = 56 hexes) Area - Second Floor (8×7 = 56 hexes) Area - Third Floor (8×7 = 56 hexes) Grounds (0×0 = 0 hexes) 20 Location (City, Underground) 5 Additional Elevator with Fixins (1); Number: 1 1 Food Fabrication (Life Support, not eat only); Limited Power: Half, -1; Extra Time: full phase, -½; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 17 2d6 Energy Blast; Range: 260; Versus: ED; No Normal Defense: +1; Continuous: +1; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1; Variable Special Effects: Any, +½; Area Effect (Radius): 8" radius, +1; Increased Area: ×2, +¼; Reduced END: Zero, +½ 0 13 Cold Fusion Reactor END Reserve (30 END, 10 REC/turn) 21 Force Wall (20 PD/20 ED); Range: 750; Width: 30", +0; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1; Limited Power: Almost Completely, -2; Partial Coverage: +8 Size Increment(s), -2; Reduced END: Zero, +½ 0 55 Variable Power Pool for Danger Room (50-pt Pool); Control Cost: 25; Change Only Between Adventures: -½; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1; Limited Power: Almost Completely, -2 -41 - adjustment for unwanted CW VPP Calc (0) (I don't have much an idea of what this was about, if anyone's wondering - so am I! Oh well, anyway you get the idea what this power is) 2 Additional BOD and DEF (total 24 hexes) (1); Number: 1; Limited Power (Partial Coverage): Almost Completely, -2 Gere-luce's area, garage area entrance, danger room +5 BOD, +5 DEF 1 Hardened BOD and DEF (total 2 hexes) vs acid (1); Number: 1; Limited Power (Partial Coverage): Almost Completely, -2; Conditional Power: Almost Never, -2 Gere-luce's area, garage area entrance +5 BOD, +5 DEF 4 Laughton office - Need Not Breathe; Focus: Inobvious Inaccessible, -¼; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1 3 Change Environment (DNA Refrigration) (2" rad.); Effect: Fixed, +0; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1 1 6 Images - piped in from outside (Normal Sight, 125" radius); Range: 135; Observer PER Penalty: 0, +0; Fragile Focus: -¼; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1; Focus: Inobvious Accessible, -½; Limited Power: Almost Completely, -2 3 -2 for singular non-combat purpose 6 Change Environment (Wind Tunnel) (8" rad.); Effect: Fixed, +0; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1 2 1 Detect Genetic Tampering: Detect: Lack of Weakness (+0 to PER); Time Required: Half Phase, +0; Range: Touch, +0; Concentrate: ½ DCV, -¼; Extra Time: 1 min., -1½; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Applicability: Personal; Focus Breakability: Breakable; Focus Expendability: None, +0; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 10 Elemental Control (20-pt reserve); Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1 a-5 10" Teleportation - Superspeed Elevator (Long Range 10"); Increased Range: ×1, +0; Mass Multiplier: ×64, +30; Fixed Locations: 0; Floating Locations: 0; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Activation: 15-, -¼; Extra Time: full phase, -½; Gestures: Instant Power, -¼; No Range: -½; Limited Power: Almost Completely, -2 4 b-30 10" Teleportation - Superspeed Elevator - Forced Ejection (Long Range 80"); Increased Range: ×8, +15; Mass Multiplier: ×64, +30; Fixed Locations: 0; Floating Locations: 0; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; No Range: -½; Limited Power: Almost Completely, -2; Linked: -½; Usable Against Others: ×64 mass, 2½; Side Effects: 60/All, -1 14 Linked to gas and sensors - side effect is destrution of tunnel c-7 Elevator Sensors (Clairsentience) (Normal Sight, Sight, Unusual Senses); See: Present, +0; Dimensions: Current, +0; Range: 200"; Focus: Inobvious Inaccessible, -¼; No Range: -½ 4 unusual sense = DNA/bio analysis d-13 4d6 Knockout Gas in Elevator Energy Blast; Range: 275; Versus: ED; Area Effect (One-hex): 1 hex(es), +½; No Normal Defense: +1; Trigger: Set, +¼; Focus: Inobvious Inaccessible, -¼; Linked: -½ 5 Area is just in elevator, linked to that 5 Multipower (30-pt reserve); Extra Time: 1 hour, -2½; Fragile Focus: -¼; Concentrate: ½ DCV, -¼; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Applicability: Personal; Focus Breakability: Breakable; Focus Expendability: None, +0; Focus Type: Base, -1; Charges: +16, +0 u-1 Find Weakness Power: Weaknesses (11/less); Plus to roll: 0; Roll Plus: 11; Only on tissue samples: +0; Only to find weaknesses and susceptibilities: -½; Active Points: 30; 2 Attempts total: +1 0 u-1 Find Weakness Power: Strengths (11/less); Plus to roll: 0; Roll Plus: 11; Only on tissue samples: +0; 2 Attempts total: +1 0 2 Chemistry Lab; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Applicability: Universal; Focus Breakability: Breakable; Focus Expendability: None, +0; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 17- 12 Follower - Gere-luce (1, 60 pts, 0 Disad.); Number: 1, +0 10 Follower - Manny (1, 50 pts, 0 Disad.); Number: 1, +0 1 Research - Detective; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 13- 2 Gere-luce Lab; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 13- 1 Mutant Physiology Lab; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Applicability: Universal; Focus Breakability: Breakable; Focus Expendability: None, +0; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 13- 2 Disguise; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 13- 1 Genetics Lab; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Focus Applicability: Universal; Focus Breakability: Breakable; Focus Expendability: None, +0; Focus Type: Base, -1; Fragile Focus: -¼ 13- 5 Concealment; Focus: Inobvious Inaccessible, -¼; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1 15- 16 Followers - Robots (8, 5 pts, 5 Disad.); Number: 8, +15 8 Security Systems - Laughton Office; Focus Mobility: Immobile, -1; Focus: Obvious Accessible, -1; Always On: -½ 23- 282 Base Cost 282+ Disadvantages (Cost: 282/5 = 56)

I think the internationalization is the biggest difference from where I'm at. I do have several non-Americans coming into it, but the first part of our campaign has been local. Now the supers are going abroad more as they're a recognized super-team, so that's a good point you make as of course it's a lesser issue. I think also if you're excluding high tech and magic and such from your super number, then it's a bit different than my concern. My point was that I thought your ratio represented 250 point characters, not 250 point mutant characters. That makes a big difference. So you end up with a lot more characters anyway. Thanks for the points.

Hi Treb - how did you deal with creating villains worthy of the heroes? The problem I see in all sorts of games (including my own) with "few" supers, is that you end up with a dilemma. Either: 1 - Villains have to keep breaking out of jail 2 - New villains keep popping up, calling into question the actual numbers of supers in the world and destroying the "rarity" of supers in general 3 - The superheroes face a limited number of villains #1 I don't like because it does make heroes feel useless and makes killing the villains essentially black-and-white (yes, you can add in some moral grief by making them misunderstood souls, but that can be tedious, or more likely simply delaying the inevitable "I am sick of bringing this guy in. Whoops, what an accident, he's dead!" issue) #2 I don't like, although it's what I've ended up doing despite saying a world doesn't have many supers; it's just cheesy and it also changes the campaign world as you have to start devising all sorts of things to suit the fact that supers actually aren't that rare #3 is boring to me. So what do you do? (And of course, what do others do?)

Well, I did something essentially identical for a long time. Basically, you paid full price for the largest power and all the rest you halved, which in essence is what you have. I dropped it only because I felt it was one of too many modifications to the system and was probably getting annoying for players. It didn't seem to hurt game balance. I will forewarn you that overall it saves more points on PCs, especially if the EC is set high enough, you end up with lots of those smaller powers that now are half-priced. But you probably know this already.

Hmmm, sounds good. I don't GM low-level games but I think stunning happens a bit more than I'd like in super-hero games, so I would also think it'd be a bigger issue in lower level games. Of course it adds some complexity, but if you're willing to deal with that it's probably a better way, is my gut feel.

FWIW, I have always done END as based on BASE points. I do feel as this post starts that some advantages make sense for increased END and some don't. Implementing that gets way too complex, though, and I adopted for the OTHER evil of saying none of them increase END. But then again, I still charge 5 points = 1 END, but the current Reduced END/Costs no END advantages are the same cost as in 4th/5th. The combo seems to work for my purposes; it essentaily allows characters to be pretty easily built to get around END by spending a reasonable number of points or to not spend those points and elect to deal with END.

Re: Too many stats in Hero First, let me say that if this works for you, great, AND I always like seeing things like this on the boards. So please don't take my criticisms as an attempt to prove this "wrong", I'm just giving you my reaction, and on top of that there are points here that I take exception to. But hey it's your game. I don't believe people can roleplay ANY subtle differences in HERO. The subtle differences effect the "do it now" skills and as the differences get larger they can be roleplayed. Furthermore, your objection here seems to me that you just want INT retitled. It seems to function fine for what you say, even if it's not "intelligence" to you. However, it does describe what I see as intelligence, quickness of mind. Just because someone is very knowledgable, I don't think of them as "intelligent." I think it's going to cost a lot more and inflate the cost unfairly if I have to buy a number of things to bring up the skills AND PER rolls AND other uses of INT (such as, "okay, let's see if your character realizes how what he's going to do will impact everyone in the heat of battle.") So far, so good. The base stats interact as they stand now to create this "Most people" effect. This is a good point. However, CON is really used to either derive greater END and such, or it si used to buffer against being stunned. I feel like it does a good job with these. You can easily build a character who is strong but doesn't have as much END and has a glass jaw in essence. We all know plenty of strong people who can't take a punch. HERO does this. This is totally fair. There's an awful lot of mud around BOD - is it life force, is it your physical bulk, what is it? However BOD does work very well a practical way to have essentially phyiscal hit points. It works fine for that, and as such SHOULD be separate from STR or CON or any other stats IF YOU WANT A GRANULAR SYSTEM. What I feel you are really arguing against is the granulatiry of HERO and its ability to build very complex (and seemingly if not actually inconsistent) characters. That's fine, and I think its cool if you rebuild HERO to change that or adopt another system. But I don't think you can say that the current base characteristics are so screwed up as you attempt to claim. If you don't like having 8 stats and 6 derived characteristics, fine. Personally I can't fathom this hue and cry among some that it's "so complicated" and "so hard". Sheesh, you make like one character if you're playing. If you're GMing, sure, you make a lot more, but what, like half a dozen or a dozen for a session, tops? In my games I actually added 2 more derived characteristics, Mental Defense and Supernatural Defense. That works, too.

I mean no offense, but to those of you quoting "realism" and how combat really works, I think you're missing the point of the HERO combat system - to replicate FICTIONAL HEROIC DRAMA. As such, I think the SPD/time method works great. You can calculate the timing of actions better, you can achieve those "split second" actions pretty well, even if not ideally. The differences in SPD to my mind work well in exaggerating the difference between, say, Doc Savage and the Regular Thud. IMHO.

EDIT - KILLED THIS, sorry, I was responding incorrectly, I thought this was referring to the method i mentioned

I thought about that one, the only thing is I felt there should be some penalty if you try to front-load too many actions, so that's why what I proposed is sort of what you said but modified with the penalized rolls if you try to act too often/too many times in too short a time.

I actually agree, I am just fascinated with the alternatives. I don't have any problem with the SPD system as is, except for one aspect: i my games I make all same-segment actions nearly simultaneous. This means that although I'll allow people a chance (they have to make a DEX roll) to put up defenses and similar aborts before a strike hits, all strikes are launched. So even though I might hit and knock you out in a segment, you still get your shot on me.

Well, I think some GMs just enjoy doing that. And there are some things you have to chart out in game mechanics, such as how many d6 damage, what the range actually is, a few other esentials. But yea, the value of a lim or adv is fairly meaningless. I do actually put in the lims and advantages because I want to be reminded of them but I don't sweat the value very much. I do like to have a total cost just to get an idea if I'm overarming a villain. One reason I haven't posted villains though on the boards or elsewhere is that my writeups, because I'm the GM, remain incomplete. I leave out the details necessary for an independent person to really understand how the villain works, particularly the vibrant emotional details that are so important as they tend to stay in my head and barely if at all make it to paper.

I just wanted to have Spiderman around as an older, senior hero, essentially the equivalent of Superman as the oldest and greatest. For reasons I don't want to go into (at least one player reads these boards), I wanted superheroes to start at that tiem. As a side benefit, it was nice that he was around as a reporter with virtually unlimited access to super-battles and such. In fact, Peter Parker's photo essays went a long way to helping keep the image of mutant vigilantes alive as a heroic one - although they also served as a reminder of the mutant criminals bedeviling society, so a mixed bag in that way. Why not put him in the 50s?

How about this alternative - and bear in mind this is just a brainstorm - you get your number of actions in a turn according to SPD as normal. At the beginning of the turn, everyone moves in DEX order first, so each character IN THEORY gets one action in at the top of the turn. Ties in DEX are resolved by whoever has higher INT or a DEX roll-off (not sure which is best). However, if someone wants to get in their action before another person's, if they have remaining phases, they may "interrupt" by making a DEX roll - they must declare they want to do so BEFORE the character whose turn it is announces their action. The DEX roll is made to get 11/less on the roll modified as +(DEX/3) AND -(DEX being called off/3) AND it is -2 for the character interrupting per each phase they've already spent. So if your character is DEX 30, and DEX 12 characters are going, you need 11+10-4=17. But if your same character had taken 2 phases already when decaring his intent to interrupt he is at -4 when making his roll, so he actually needs 17-4=13 or less. No one can take more than 1 action in a single DEX "segment". In other words, if DEX 11 characters are going, and a DEX 30 character wants to move again and interrupt the DEX 11 character(s), he may do so assuming he makes his DEX roll HOWEVER he cannot interrupt again at least until DEX 10 character(s) go. Aborts could be done the same as they are now, you simply take the abort when needed and you've used up a phase and cannot go again in the current DEX being called. When all the DEXes have gone, the process simply starts over if anyone has phases left.

Are you familiar with Deadlands? This smacks of that. I just put another alternative in the SPD thread, I started to put it here but realized this topic probably was focused on the cards. EDIT - I realized that also was focused on something more specific, the END/boosting issue, so went ahead and made a new thread as anyone seeing this likely already saw

Re: Re: How we are rolling! I dunno, I've never participated in a first supers world actually. I'd like to sometime.