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Weapon Speed


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#21 Cantriped

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:33 PM

If I just wanted to represent some of the possible effects of "Weapon Speed" without rewriting every weapon in the game, I might just apply the OCV penalties from Unequal Reach (FHC 173) to the Character's Initiative as well. That way a character with a longer weapon has a slight initiative advantage against an opponent with a shorter reach until said opponent made it past the character's guard.

However, conditional changes to initiative are a pain in the assets to keep track of. So I wouldn't bother with such a house rule at all personally. Likewise I usually discourage Character's from having highly conditional forms of Lightning Reflexes as well.

 

HERO does not have default solutions for guarding a door, for example, or preventing someone running past you. It would be quite easy to build a lot of these things as powers, low end available as Everyman and points spent to make them more reliable.

If I am hunkering down, defending and holding my ground, I should be able to reliably hold things up long enough for my friends to escape.

There actually is a rule for guarding an area, see FHC 183. Basically you hold an attack to attack when someone enters your immediate area, and the target suffers 1/2 DCV unless they entered the area specifically to attack you.

If you have something like Legsweep or Martial Throw, Guarding An Area could be used to prevent passage fairly effectively, and if you don't you can still attempt a Grab or Trip maneuver against them.


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#22 MrKinister

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:21 PM

If you are looking for weapon speed, I'd say, you can get the thief Lighting Reflexes with his daggers, to go first maybe at DEX 20 or so. You then get him Two-Weapon Fighting and Rapid Attack, and a few combat skill levels with daggers to offset the multiple attack, and he could do something sneaky like running up to the barbarian before he can attack, and strike him two or three times ... and hopefully hit. Of course, the inevitable counter attack will follow, so play defensive.

 

This method however, describes a trained combatant who is masterfully practiced at using her daggers. It is not so much weapon speed, but personal training in using a weapon very fast.  It is entirely possible for the barbarian to be just as good.


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#23 Doc Democracy

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 10:47 AM

There actually is a rule for guarding an area, see FHC 183. Basically you hold an attack to attack when someone enters your immediate area, and the target suffers 1/2 DCV unless they entered the area specifically to attack you.
If you have something like Legsweep or Martial Throw, Guarding An Area could be used to prevent passage fairly effectively, and if you don't you can still attempt a Grab or Trip maneuver against them.


Oh no, you are not pulling me into this one....there have been a couple of threads debating this at length...

I need to go look at the rule but it sounds to me like it suffers from the issue that other such tactics do, it does not provide an effective block to movement. I have given defender type fighters the ability to buy a power that effectively creates a barrier across an area which disappears if an attacker can win in an OCV vs OCV roll. In the meantime the passageway is really blocked. :-)

Though I am now WELL off topic....

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#24 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:35 AM

I think the best way to represent weapon speed differences -- and they do exist in real life, just not as significantly as in computer games -- is not to use dex rank at all.  Assign them penalties or bonuses to certain kinds of activity, such as less of a penalty to multiple attack maneuvers for fast weapons.  

 

That gives you a sense of a weapon that can be used quickly rather than a weapon that is innately faster.  There's nothing faster about a dagger than a halberd in and of its self.  You can use a halberd pretty quickly, its just that you can use a dagger more quickly, if you choose to.  

 

This approach helps avoid the annoyance and complication of varying DEX ranks and keeps things simple.

 

Mind you, an innately swift sword with a bonus to OCV and Lightning Reflexes as an enchantment is a possibility, as well.


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#25 Brian Stanfield

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 08:18 PM

I think the best way to represent weapon speed differences -- and they do exist in real life, just not as significantly as in computer games -- is not to use dex rank at all.  Assign them penalties or bonuses to certain kinds of activity, such as less of a penalty to multiple attack maneuvers for fast weapons.  
 
That gives you a sense of a weapon that can be used quickly rather than a weapon that is innately faster.  There's nothing faster about a dagger than a halberd in and of its self.  You can use a halberd pretty quickly, its just that you can use a dagger more quickly, if you choose to.  
 
This approach helps avoid the annoyance and complication of varying DEX ranks and keeps things simple.
 
Mind you, an innately swift sword with a bonus to OCV and Lightning Reflexes as an enchantment is a possibility, as well.


In this case I prefer increasing the penalty for a slower weapon rather than reducing the penalty for a quick one. The multiple attack maneuver is penalized as an action, regardless of the weapon. The action itself shouldn't become easier with a quicker weapon, but rather get harder with a slower one. Again, I think defining what is faster and slower becomes the primary challenge.


#26 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:33 PM

In this case I prefer increasing the penalty for a slower weapon rather than reducing the penalty for a quick one. The multiple attack maneuver is penalized as an action, regardless of the weapon.

 

 

In a generic set of rules, I'd agree, but for a campaign, I am considering making unarmed people have a bonus, to encourage the use and show the difference between lugging a weapon around and being completely free.

 

Some weapons can be pretty big and fast, or small and sluggish, though and that's where judgment, experience, and logic come in.  And Pole Arms aren't as awkward as they are sometimes portrayed, either.


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#27 Brian Stanfield

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:33 AM

In a generic set of rules, I'd agree, but for a campaign, I am considering making unarmed people have a bonus, to encourage the use and show the difference between lugging a weapon around and being completely free.
 
Some weapons can be pretty big and fast, or small and sluggish, though and that's where judgment, experience, and logic come in.  And Pole Arms aren't as awkward as they are sometimes portrayed, either.


Well, one man's penalty is another man's bonus, I suppose! If you're giving bonuses, however, to unarmed (and I'm assuming unarmored) characters, what is the baseline? What state of armament counts as neither bonus nor penalty?

I like what you're thinking, though. Armor was a privilege and not a standard for most of the pre-modern world, and it opens up more role playing opportunities when characters aren't walking tanks and combat actually has mortal consequences.

I agree with the pole arms, by the way, although I always pick on them for my examples. I think a spear, properly used, may be the most useful and lethal of weapons available.


#28 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:03 AM

Right now I'm looking at just 3 categories of quick ordinary and slow, with things like unarmed and fist wraps getting a +1 to certain maneuvers, and slow taking a -1 penalty.  Not a significant difference, but enough to be noticed in with a lot of attacks.


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The Lost Castle

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Two Kings Keep

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#29 Hyper-Man

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 06:09 PM

I would recommend borrowing a page from the muzzle rise rules from Dark Champions and the HSEG.  I think HTH weapon speed would most likely affect followup attacks during the same Phase via Multiple Attack (previously known as Sweep) and Naked Autofire builds.

 

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