Help me create a Champions campaign using only material from supers games.

[dean day]

18 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

Some long term GM advice. 
 

Sit down with each player, one on one, and discuss the character, and what they want. Brainstorm the character, with notes, getting attributes and flaws ranked by importance at the end. This will allow you to cull edgy loner types, and disruptive chaotics from the team. At this point take the notes and build their character for them.  Once they have a few months of play, and know how everything works and have some EXP to spend, allow them to open up the hood and tinker.  Or build new heroes.  It’s the play that ropes them in.  
 

GM concerns 

 

Fictitious versus real city. My preference is for real cities to start with, as it is a common referential base line between the GM and players, plus the maps can be so much better.  Less time can be spent with clarifications and overcoming assumption clash, and more for roleplay.  If you do use a fictional city, pick one with good maps. Times and scale are important, and figuring out how long or short a Superhero response time can be is important to villain’s plans. Hudson City has the Best maps.  San Angelo has decent ones. But in kk cases your city will have its demographics, it’s good preferences, and it’s slang. Borrow from reality when you can but try and make the blend seamless.  

Start local before going global in detail s.  Sure, there are events of global importance, and villains whose movements and achievements are notable, but the player to NPC relationships that happen locally will set the tone of the campaign going forth. How the team deals with local law enforcement, and how the city’s District Attorney feels about superpowered citizens will color interactions up the food chain. Do citizens cheer or flee when a figure drops from the sky into a superhero landing?  First impressions are important. Think about those NPCs and how they would react, before worrying about how Dr. Destroyer might invade Washington DC with automatons. Thst comes later.  

 

Its too late for some tropes

 

I am not going to touch on any social issues, other than acknowledge they are present, but stuff we loved in 80s X-Men or Teen Titans may not work in current year. ( This is why I am comfortable in Fantasy and Traveller these days). But it also works for technology. Most people, other than the very old or very destitute, carry a fairly capable computer in their pocket, that they are capable of using for communication, research, and photography (in 4K).  Even tropes from the last decade, in the coming year will be obsolete when Phones can access Starlink anywhere. No more dropped service.  This also means anything the Heroes do in public will become part of the public record instantly, spread by social media( in 4 k). Look at the coverage f the Dallas Air Show accident as an example. If your campaign has the Champions Universe, 10 years plus in technology advancement, things are going to be cheaper, safer, and more reliable to a point, but the cutting edge will breed new tropes. Think those out.  How much industry is in orbit? Has Elon got a colony on Mars already? Is someone going to hijack a power broadcasting satellite and retune it into an orbital death ray ( with invisible power effects because you can’t see microwaves). Also keep in mind your player’s tastes. Romance? Yes or no? How hard are you going to enforce or insist on The Hero Code? How many alien invasions have there been, if any?  Marvel had few, DC had a lot. But remember to mind the tropes to keep things enticing, rather than hokey or campy, as that breaks immersion. Tone is going to be very important.  

My players are all very different types, but to be honest I am very lucky with them as they have got good engagement levels and the one guy that didn't has improved lots over the years, but they will all need a lot of hand holding with hero. I agree with you that the best way would be build their characters for them for sure, then slowly get them into the wonders of the system.

 

Regarding the fictional cities I dont plan to base the campaign in any of them, instead they are there for flavor to say this is a different reality from their own world and that will reinforce that. I am a Brit that lived in London many years and we all live on the outskirts of London now so will probably be using London as a home base as they know the city well. But I see the campaign as a globe trotting one eventually so they will hopefully have adventures all over, so the fictional cities are more a backdrop.

 

Your point about alien invasions is exactly the kind of thing I want to flesh out before play so the game and setting has a detailed pre game history I can use for future adventures but also for them to dig into slowly. I know my guys well, the key is not to overwhelm them at first but have the history in the background and slowly let them dig into it as the campaign continues, they love that. But i need to know the answers in detail for when those questions will come.

18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

One thing about replacing an existing major city with a fictional one, is that you lose everything that's iconic about that city, all the familiar cultural references. No New York means no Statue of Liberty or Manhattan Island. Replacing Los Angeles torpedoes Hollywood. New Orleans is legendary for its culture. While the fictional cities you're looking at were mostly created to be their own thing, and not map onto any existing city locations. There are exceptions, like Millennium City, obviously. It kept much of the best about old Detroit, but there was an in-universe reason why it became what it is. Another example is Bay City, for the Champions: New Millennium game line (available from the Hero website store). It's another existing urban area decimated by a crisis and then rebuilt, in this case the cities around San Francisco Bay, which were reconstituted as a single megalopolis. The New Millennium source books were written for the short-lived Fuzion game system rather than Hero, but Hero Games did provide free 4E character sheets for all the characters from those books, which you can download from here.

 

Freedom City can be considered another exception, in that it was clearly written to be a stand-in for NYC, and could be fitted in that city's spot on the map without too much trouble. You might not know that Steve Kenson originally wrote the supers from Freedom City for 4E Champions, and translated them for M&M when he developed that game. Years ago Steve kindly posted his 4E stats for quite a few of those characters to this website. In case that would be helpful to you I'll attach them below.

 

BTW various parties have posted 4E/5E/6E updates to a number of characters from 3E and earlier Champions to these forums and elsewhere, sometimes done by their original authors. I've tended to save those postings. They include characters from the Circle, VOICE, the Protectors, the Blood, Enemies III, Enemies: The International File, and Villainy Unlimited. I'd be happy to share any of these with you if you'd like.

Freedom City.rtf 195.76 kB · 5 downloads

You make some really good points about getting rid of the the real cities. You have persuaded me to keep them alongside the fictional ones. I dont think Freedom City is a direct New York replacement but its for sure along the eastern coast somewhere. Thank you so much for the Freedom City stats thats a great help, yes I would love your stats for other characters, that would be amazing.  

[dean day]

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

You'll find the Freedom League and Atom Family in the file I attached to my previous post.  There are also four more members of the Tiger Squad written up in Watchers of the Dragon for 4E, which I highly recommend if you have a special interest in martial-arts supers.

 

The Protectors are my all-time favorite NPC super-team. But next to them I rank the Millennium City Eight (MC8) who are written up in Digital Hero #13. They were the result of a contest held for Champions fans, to create backgrounds and stats for the unnamed heroes on the cover of the 5E Champions Universe book. The competition was fairly stiff, and the winners are a diverse group of innovative concepts with very well-developed backgrounds and personalities, written with the current CU in mind.

 

For other NPC hero teams, I would suggest looking at Allies for 4E. It's just what the name implies, good-guy teams and solos for your PCs to interact with. I'm particularly fond of the Cyberknights (great example of a themed hero team, in this case high-tech) and the Zen Team (Japan-based homage to tokusatsu heroes).

 

Besides Champions of the North (both editions) and Kingdom of Champions for heroes from Canada and the UK, Champions Worldwide not only stats heroes and villains from around the globe, but mentions and briefly describes other heroes and whole hero teams for all the continents.

I have Watchers of the Dragon, a very underrated book in my opinion. Oh i love the Protectors they are amazing. Oh i dimly remember the Millennium city 8 ok I will pick them up from Drivethru. I also remember really liking Darren Watts group he was posting in digital hero over a few issues, they were a great Avengers homage I remember and also a FF homage but dont remember what issues they were spread over now.

 

I have Allies but dont remember anyone standing out for me I will have another look.  I dont have the Canadian and UK books are they worth picking up? I have Champions Worldwide.

[dean day]

17 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Another possible source to look into might be Sentinels of the Multiverse

Yep, I have it and tried doing a campaign with it. My players prefer a robust and detailed experience system, so despite the game being amazing in lots of ways it failed in that respect for them.

But the setting is great fun so i will be drawing lots of characters from it. 

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Oh, and in case you haven't seen it, the adventure, Reality Storm: When Worlds Collide is a Hero 5E crossover with Silver Age Sentinels, providing Hero stats for several major  SAS  heroes and villains, plus a conversion matrix between the two games. The result of using the matrix is rather rough, but helps a lot in bringing characters from one game into the other.

Not got that one, who are the hero characters? the Champions?

[dean day]

15 hours ago, Sketchpad said:

Fun idea, @dean day! I've played around a few times with making a campaign using other game books in the past. Back in the '90s, I had a few V&V villains show up in a Champions game, and have had both V&V and Champions characters show up in an M&M campaign. The big problem I had was conversion. In the end, I found that converting by concept over some magical mathematic formula works best. Mind you, it also helps that Freedom City's creator, Steve Kenson, had dropped some conversion on the boards almost a decade ago (see attached). 

 

IMHO, it might be best to start small. Take a single city, populate it with NPCs, villains, any heroes that you want players to interact with and prep for running. Say you decide to use Freedom City (using the attached file). Just mix in what you'd like and then start working on your first game. When you have some time, start on the next city that your player heroes may interact with. Rinse, repeat...

 

 

That would be one of the cities in Mutants & Masterminds, Dean. They had a 3rd edition sourcebook that came out with info on it. It's basically a stand in for Seattle. Fun book.

 

 

fchero-_1_.txt 133.45 kB · 4 downloads

Thank you for the Freedom City stats, I agree its probably best to just eye ball characters when moving systems. What i intend to do very slowly, is go book by book I will start with the Champions 2nd edition rules and decide on what characters make the cut and make my own version in Hero Designer..

[dean day]

6 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Your call, of course, but no too long ago, I did am informal pill in the subject, and the comments were quite enlightening.  It may help you decide what is right for you.  I had intended to link it, but using the search function on this phone is beyond infuriating.  If I remember correctly, it was titled "it's all about location."  (Weirdly, it popped right up a week or so ago while I was searching for something completely unrelated.)  

 

 

 

 

That is my preference as well, but we explained our personal thoughts in the above-mentioned thread.

 

 

 

 

Gonna level with you: even though (and I really can't say that there is no chance that it might be because of) the Silver Age Sentinels setting / universe is far less developed than the Champions universe, there is no part of it that  I don't like far more  than any of the published Champions settings from any edition.  I tend to fell the same,way about the "title characters" of SAS and Champions as well.  Now that is not to say that I _dislike_ the published Champions stuff (except the 4e "title character" Champions roster).

 

That is what had me a little stoked about your "use everyrhing from everywhere" setting idea:  sweet!  Dump Destroyer; replace with Kruzriter (yeah; I know that is spelled wrong.  After a full minute, it is what autocorrect and I came to agree on), and other such swaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's really up to you, but ultimately: why?  Why does a city have to be replaced?  You can have New York and Hudson City.

 

I wont get too deep into all that, because there is no right or wrong there; you are building a world, and the only way it will be right is if it is built the way you want it.  Let Vibora Bay replace New Dehli if you want.

 

Just as an example:

 

My supers setting is Campaign City.  We have been gaming in Campaign City since the first edition.  It is located on the shores of Lake Campaign (you have to understand it was named after a long-running joke), one of the Great Lakes.

 

So let's do some simple math:  2022 minus 1980 is forty-two years of never once having been asked by any player which Great Lake was replaced, or if this is a new one, of it CC was replacing Chicago-  I havent ever even,been asked if we were Americans or Canadians.

 

Not one time.

 

I know a lot of people just arent happy withiut a fully-mapped city.  I have never been asked to map out more rhan a small neighborhood, ever.  With the advent of getting online in the 90s, I have image grabbed sections of more cities than I have ever been asked to use.  No one has ever cared that most of the larger maps (that is, the higher ariel views that were packed with roads) couldnt possibly fit together into a cohesive city.

 

Why?  I have never had a group care to know more than what was around them at the moment, and where they were in relation to regular landmarks (you are about a dozen blocks from the college, and four miles South of the museum.  A couple of blocks the financial district over here (makes vague circle,on battle map) and you'll be in the high-rent part of the waterfront).

 

All they ever really want to know is how much are to canvass, how fast they can fly, how much running room they have, and how far can they spread a battle.  So long as I can provide them these details on command, they have never once wanted or even shown interest in a road map of Campaign County or even just the city or even a single district within it.)

 

The only recurring "road map" anyone has ever insisted on was Daedelus Park, to include _some,of the roads around it and that part of the financial district into which Tree grows.

 

 

Now, all that being said, let me also say this:

 

You are getring some solid world building advice above.  Everyone is making great points, especially if you are putting together something for publication.  It is rock solid advice.

 

I have never, in any game or genre, done any of it.  Sure, early on, I though I _had- to so all this work: vreating Gods and religions and economies and the patterns of global trade and multi-layered political maneuvering-

 

And it disnt take very long to figure out that the players  straight up _do not care_.  They want to know about the look and feel of the world, the tone of the campaign, there particular power level, and hoe it compares to Joe Onthestreet and how it compares to the most powerful person in your campaign world.  Seriously: they dont care how many NPC supers arw out there beyond "they are pretty rare" or "it's not uncommon: it seems,every big city has four or five heroes and a couple dozen villains", and a way to subjectively determine their current power level.

 

Campaign City grew initially from "you guys are in a big city- like a major metropolis, giant buildings New York style.  There are dive costumed,figures flying at you."

 

Seriously.  That is how it started.  We read the rules, we wanted to play _right now_ and the GM had _nothing_.  We had all,just met over the previous two or three weeks  as he was trying to recruit a group.

 

"Okay; do we know them?"

 

Yes; they are famous supervillains.

 

What do they want?

 

From the eye lasers and fire blasts, I think they want to attack you!

 

Okay.  We need to get a plan!  Find cover!  Where are we?  In a building?

 

You're in a graveyard.

 

 

It, uh, got a lot worse from there.  But even after that, when the GM showed up with his notes...

 

We wanyed to pick up from where we left off.

 

That is also why Daedalus Park has a graveyard in it to this day.  Our hunteds and huntings and rivalries and origin stories provided the earliest population.  Businesses and organizations and foundations appeared as we needed them-  well, as we needed something _like_ them:

 

Okay, the crimemobile is orerrt busted up.  Is there like some place we can ger ir fixed up quick and quiet?

 

Well, there's Bender's Fender.  Quickest turn around anywhere in town, accorsinf to the radio.

 

Great!  Can he fix an experimental alcohol jet propulsion engine?

 

Well, mostly he does body work, but he might know a guy....

 

That kind of thing.  If you let them, your players will build a wonderful playground for you: one that focuses on the needs, interests, and desires of the setting in which they want to play.

 

Look at the source material:  every single super hero has fifty or more supervillains.  If there are forty superheroes all acting out of New York, an9 each of them has fifty or sixty unique supervillains, and then there are world-class or galaxy class superheroes _from_ New York, but nit necesarily operating there, and each of them has fifty unique villains.....

 

That is a buttload of super people floating around New York City.  I dint mean in terms of population perxentage (which I have also never been asked about with any more interest than "are powers common or not?"-- which was answered with "powers arent common, but they arent particulalry unusual, either.  _useful_ powers are quite in common, and really powerful levels are very unusual.  Finsinf a combination of strong, useful powers and courage to use them in bokd and public ways makes super heroes and costumed villains rather rare, though."

 

I was never asked for more specifics that that, and every so often, players encounter a background NPC with some minor ability: a bartender that can grab your mug and re-chill your drink;  an ironworker who welds using his own natural ability to create a reliable electric arc; a waitress whose clairsentience lets her check on her customers while seating a new table,  a cleaning service stagged entirely by low-level speedsters, and everyone's favorite: a stuntman whose only power is the ability to survive a fall from any height.  (He has gone over Niagara falls nine times so far-- without a barrel).

 

It isnt something I ever thiught about when our first GM left and I took over- the minor powers- and I never would have no matter how long a document I might have prepared, but once I was asked about  powers, it seemd so obvious...

 

Honestly, I dont think the density or xommonality of xostumed adventurers ever really mattered: Marvel's New York City should house a few thousand super-powered individuals, but somehow, it never seems to matter.  Iron Man never swings through and repulsive blasts the guy Daredevil is trying to beat with a stick and offers a quick "yeah, you're welcome, DD!" and then flies off on his way to an alien invasion threat.  Doctor Strange never squares up with the Kingpin.  The only time all these thiusands of supers matter _at all_ to each other when it is scripted that they shoukd work together, then never see each other ever again, unless Marvel revives Two-in-One, in which case the Thing is going to have his danve card filled.  Why?  Bevause the while point of Two-in-One was teaming up other supers with the Thing, period.

 

By the source material, there are always more heroes or villains than will ever make sense, and they will never show up unless they are absolutely supposed to.

 

So what difference is their density in ther world, the vast majority of which your players and their characters will never trod? 

 

Now I make no secret of the fact that I dont sweat nearly the detaila that most people do when "world building."  Mostly because not only do I remember the experience of Lars, but the one winter I forgot it and in my hubris crafted a fantasy campaign that my players demanded, begged for- something new and different and unkike anything that we have aeen before--!

 

And I soent a winter crafting such a world, and such a campaign, and a number of smaller enctiunters to impress the flavilor of rhis world-

 

And they _hated_ it.  What they claimed to want and what they actually wanted were two different things.  They claimed they wanted something new and truly exotic  when all they really wanted was YATRO except all weapons were akin to the Stands from JoJo' Bizarre Adventure (an arcade fighter that was pretty hot at that moment).

 

So there you have it: the two sides od the coin: absolute excellent World-building advice that I will,never tell you is anything but good advice, and how it blew completely,up,in thw GM' face on both of the only two occasions I have ever seen it fully implemented.

 

For my money, I rhink Chris Goodwin hits an absolute sweet spot that any GM shoukd strive for:

 

I have never read any of his campaign idea documents that went more,than ten pages, and several that dont go to ten.  He sketches vaguely the feel of the world, polotivs and religion as,any character in the world would be passignly familiar, bouse rules as appropriate, character guidelines, and a few,things that make,rhis world unique.

 

All of it is done with broad strokes, making tweaking on the fly and adjusting for slowly-realized player desires almost effortless, and certainly inobvious to the players even as it happens.  As a campaign platform document, I think it is absolutely brilliant,  and I live reading them!

 

Now I quoted Scott specificaly because, other than the need dor a well-mapped city, our ideas on Campaign building overlap more than they don't.  Notice rhwt the bulk of his advice can be boiled down to "don't pin down every detail right away; your focus shohld be finding out what the players are interested in, and making sure you are amenable.

 

 

Notice That even before you have built a world, he stresses making sure that you have players who are like-minded in working together to share a good time.  Scott recommends literally interviewing potential players not just to see what they want, but with an eye toward what they offer the game, and the likelihood of trouble they may cause the game.

 

More than what percentage of the Estonian people have super powers, this has importance.  It dowsnt matyer what the average Damage Class of a main is if you have one player who must be begged to use it and another who wont stop using,it on his teammates.

 

 

 

 

I also agree with this.  If you have new-to-the-system players, I stress it.  It is what I had to docdoecmy current youth group.  Obviously, this allows the players to experience the game immediately and not have to stumble through character creation until  they actually understand what these terms and ideas mean in game terms, but there is another benefit:  you can build characters that compliment each others and that work well together.  Ultimately, their first experiences with the games focus in teamwork and getting along.  It ingrains the idea that this is a natural and essential part of the experience, and going forward, will likely continue to build future characters with an eye toward complementing the rest of the party.

 

 

 

Agreed.  I go a bit further and rwxommend that they have fifteen or even twenry points to spend.  Why?  Because by that time, they are really getting in the groove of the mechanics and their various interactions, and will likely know exactly what changes they want to make to the character, or what sort of a character they would prefer to have.

 

At That time, work with them one-on-one, and answer every singke quesrion they have, no matter hiw tedious, and dont let them think that this is just as exciting for you as It is for them- any less may discourage questions go which they _need_ answers to ensure that they are getting the best gaming experience that they can.

 

 

 

I could go on and,on, but I am pretty sure I have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I agree with all your points, totally, I am lucky in that my group is small (4 players) and very stable (10 years) so i know them very well. The point of this thread is just as much for me than them. It's because I 

want to use as much of the material that I have for supers games as I can in the coming campaign and I have roughly a year or so to prepare so its a great thought project.

 

Obviously I know I am never going to use all these characters in the campaign but it's fun to try to include them in a unified setting that makes some sense even as deep background for myself which my players will only stumble across when they need to.

 

I love your point about minor powers had not thought about that really but its a fantastic way of showing again they are not in the real world, will have a think about that.

[dean day]

One thought I have had is that would people be interested in the details of the campaign as I slowly put it together? characters, locations groups etc, how they all fit together, a timeline, history etc. If so how would I share that with you guys? I am guessing it is frowned upon putting up hero designer sheets of CU characters? would a separate thread be the best way or should I attach documents like an encyclopedia word doc to the first post and edit it as I go, with broad setting details?  

[dean day]

Dr. Kirby Loo

Where there ever any stats for this guy? I am assuming he is not in the current setting? anyone know of anywhere where he is fleshed out?

[dean day]

Anyone know of any good X-Men or New Mutants like groups either in the CU edition settings or in other superhero games? I cant think of anything off the top of my head but would like to have groups like that in my setting, I am going to use the NextGen from M&M as more a young hero group training group with no specific mutant connections so need a couple of hero groups that mutants would find a natural home in.

 

As i said the rule is to try and use stuff thats already been published if possible rather than me create stuff whole cloth.

 

[dean day]

Champions core rule book 2nd edition characters

I am going to go through each book I have slowly and make an encyclopedia document for characters that make the cut into my campaign world and how they connect to each other and groups.

 

the following characters in the book make the cut

Armadillo, Crusader, Dragonfly, Green Dragon, Howler, Icicle, Mechanon, Ogre, Pulsar, Shrinker, Starburst, 

 

Also interestingly there are lots of of characters named in examples, have any of you fleshed out any of the following character names mentioned in the book?

Mind Maid, Mercenary, Airacobra, Force, Density,Photon, Microwave, Spinerette, Nebula, Black Leopard, Leech (I think he got a full villain write up later), Moth, Windstorm, Paladin, Projectra, Hornet, Earthson, Hexmaster, Crater, Titan, Centurion,Speedster, Flare, Sunburst (pretty sure he was in Project Sunburst), Bomber, White Crane, Starlight, Pantera (member of Eurostar statted out), Golden Swordsman, Morningstar

 

I have not included characters I know where members of the Guardians like Marksman, Rose, Goliath, Icestar that are mentioned.

 

Anyone done anything with these names? or are they written up later in material I have overlooked? I find it fascinating that these were possible characters from the original authors campaigns.

 

[dean day]

Adventurers Club Issue 1

 

Characters that made the cut - Exoskeleton Man

I find this guy hilarious as Foxbat's number one fan! Good to give Foxbat some back up, not sure if he was updated in later editions?

[steriaca]

3 hours ago, dean day said:

Dr. Kirby Loo

Where there ever any stats for this guy? I am assuming he is not in the current setting? anyone know of anywhere where he is fleshed out?

TTP Villain Compendium 1 from Tiger Paw Press. There has NEVER been any official Hero Games published stats for him, so your going to have to go third party for him. He has, as Tiger wrote him, a Demon's Head feal to him (mostly his agelessness). Also note that if you ONLY want his stats, you have a free option also (Tiger Paw Press, free from outlets like Drivethrou RPG).

2 hours ago, dean day said:

Adventurers Club Issue 1

 

Characters that made the cut - Exoskeleton Man

I find this guy hilarious as Foxbat's number one fan! Good to give Foxbat some back up, not sure if he was updated in later editions?

He is in Classic Organization book for 4ed. Also, you could use his Fusion counterpart.

[dean day]

1 hour ago, steriaca said:

TTP Villain Compendium 1 from Tiger Paw Press. There has NEVER been any official Hero Games published stats for him, so your going to have to go third party for him. He has, as Tiger wrote him, a Demon's Head feal to him (mostly his agelessness). Also note that if you ONLY want his stats, you have a free option also (Tiger Paw Press, free from outlets like Drivethrou RPG).

He is in Classic Organization book for 4ed. Also, you could use his Fusion counterpart.

Oh I have classic organisations, thank you. Whats the quality like for Tiger Paw press books? do you have any yourself?

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, dean day said:

 Thank you so much for the Freedom City stats that's a great help, yes I would love your stats for other characters, that would be amazing.  

 

Sure. I hope you won't mind me getting to them piecemeal, as time presents. I'll start with the ones you express particular interest in. First up is the Protectors. In the attached ZIP folder you'll find a Document file containing 5E stats for them, with commentary by the updater (whose identity escapes me after more than a decade, I apologize. If the author recognizes them, please identify yourself.)

 

The ZIP also includes color artwork JPGs for the team picked up from various Internet sources over the years. The new illustrations were freely posted to these forums by To Serve and Protect author/artist Scott Heine.

 

Next will be VOICE.

Protectors.zip

[Duke Bushido]

6 hours ago, dean day said:

One thought I have had is that would people be interested in the details of the campaign as I slowly put it together? 

 

 

 

Most of us, most certainly. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, dean day said:

Dr. Kirby Loo

Where there ever any stats for this guy? I am assuming he is not in the current setting?

 

 

Steriaca beat me to it, but do you remember where I said tmiur world was first populated by character origins and hunted disadvantages?  Lirby Koo is the same thing happening in the official universe, way back from the first and sexond editions: he was some sort of bad guy who created super villains.

 

Until Tiger up above wrote him up in one of his publications, there was no trace of him other than his name popping up in various origins.

 

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, dean day said:

I have Watchers of the Dragon, a very underrated book in my opinion. Oh i love the Protectors they are amazing. Oh i dimly remember the Millennium city 8 ok I will pick them up from Drivethru. I also remember really liking Darren Watts group he was posting in digital hero over a few issues, they were a great Avengers homage I remember and also a FF homage but dont remember what issues they were spread over now.

 

I have Allies but dont remember anyone standing out for me I will have another look.  I dont have the Canadian and UK books are they worth picking up? I have Champions Worldwide.

 

Darren Watts's DH series on the history and membership of the Sentinels (CU Avengers analogue) ran through issues #13, 14, and 16-20, two to three characters per issue. The most recent incarnation of the team, i.e. "present day," appear in Champions Universe: News Of The World, along with the lineup for the Justice Squadron, homage to the Justice League.

 

The members of the Fabulous Five over the years are detailed in DH #9-12.

 

Champions Of The North for Fifth Edition is an excellent source book for adventuring in Canada, should the opportunity ever arise, covering almost all the issues you'd want to know, although current events are years out of date. Several of the villains in that book were translated to the 6E Champions Villains trilogy, but there are a number of NPC heroes that might be useful. The 4E COTN is also of high quality, but obviously even more behind the times, the character lineup is almost totally different, and the supers are rather low-powered by 5E standards. But I've mixed the characters to good effect for my own use.

 

Kingdom of Champions is maybe even better as a source book for UK adventures, but was written in the early 1990s, and as an Englishman yourself you wouldn't require much of the historical and cultural info. But the book is loaded with villains and NPC heroes, almost none of whom are written up in later editions; as well as many adventure ideas.

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, dean day said:

Not got that one [Reality Storm: When Worlds Collide], who are the hero characters? the Champions?

 

The book has SAS stats for the Champions -- Defender, Ironclad, Nighthawk, Sapphire, and Witchcraft -- as well as Dr. Destroyer, Gigaton, and Rakshasa. Hero 5E stats are provided for the Guard -- Caliburn, Mother Raven, Red Phoenix, Sentinel, and Slipstream -- and for the villains, Kreuzritter, Alice Queen of Hearts, and Iron Duke. As I mentioned earlier, the products of the conversion matrix are a little rough, and would probably need fine-tuning.

[Lord Liaden]

6 hours ago, dean day said:

Anyone know of any good X-Men or New Mutants like groups either in the CU edition settings or in other superhero games? I cant think of anything off the top of my head but would like to have groups like that in my setting, I am going to use the NextGen from M&M as more a young hero group training group with no specific mutant connections so need a couple of hero groups that mutants would find a natural home in.

 

As i said the rule is to try and use stuff thats already been published if possible rather than me create stuff whole cloth.

 

 

Well, the Teen Champions source book for 5E deals with the "young supers" style of campaign, providing many suggestions and guidelines. It lays out an entire school for such, Ravenswood Academy, and its students. There are also two other youth superhero teams written up, one public, the other hunted by the law; as well as VIPER's opposite number to Ravenswood, Generation VIPER. None of them are exclusively for mutants, but include mutant members.

 

There was a quality adventure by the late great Aaron Allston, School of Hard Knocks, dealing with a similar subject, with quite a few heroes and villains. It was based on his Strike Force campaign. SoHK was published for GURPS Supers, but Aaron originally intended to include Hero 4E stats for all the characters, and had posted them for free use on his personal website, as well as the old Hero gaming website BBS, Red October. I know where you could get those stats if you ever come across the adventure.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, steriaca said:

 

He [Exo-Skeleton Man] is in Classic Organization book for 4ed. Also, you could use his Fusion counterpart.

 

Hate to contradict, but Leroy, the Awesome Exo-Skeleton Man, is not in Classic Organizations. However, there is a villain compendium for 4E Champs, Enemies Assemble, featuring an array of villain teams, among which is a group of operatives for Foxbat, including Leroy. Yes, Foxbat actually leads a team.

 

Note that 6E Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains has a very clear homage to Leroy, the supervillain "Exo"; although he has no connection to Foxbat.

[steriaca]

Thank you. I stand corrected. 

[Duke Bushido]

11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Hate to contradict, but Leroy, the Awesome Exo-Skeleton Man, is not in Classic Organizations. However, there is a villain compendium for 4E Champs, Enemies Assemble, featuring an array of villain teams, among which is a group of operatives for Foxbat, including Leroy. Yes, Foxbat actually leads a team.

 

Note that 6E Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains has a very clear homage to Leroy, the supervillain "Exo"; although he has no connection to Foxbat.

 

 

Leroy's first write-up was Adventurers Club #1, if I recall correctly.

LL is xorrecr that there is a 4e write-up of him.

 

 

There is a 5e write-up, sort of.

 

For reasons we will never know (Steve is pretty up front about discussing his reasons) and I will never appreciate (Leroy is one of a very few published NPCs that I actually kind of like), the Exoskeleton Man in one of the 5e villains book is totally unrelated to Foxbat and is _not_ Leroy.  We have a vauguely standsrsized bas guy origin and an attempt to make him a bit "harder edged," but it just xomes off as kind of silly, since it _is_ the Awesome Exoskeleton Man , just unnecesarily reimagined in a way that adds nothing and improves nothing.

 

 

The best portrait of Leroy, I think, was the one in Adventurers Club (though it was a bit smallish); the sexond best are in the old Champions comics where he gies by the name Cybernotron.

 

 

[Scott Ruggels]

No love for Foxbst Unleashed? I worked hard on that one. 🙁

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

Leroy's first write-up was Adventurers Club #1, if I recall correctly.

LL is xorrecr that there is a 4e write-up of him.

 

 

There is a 5e write-up, sort of.

 

For reasons we will never know (Steve is pretty up front about discussing his reasons) and I will never appreciate (Leroy is one of a very few published NPCs that I actually kind of like), the Exoskeleton Man in one of the 5e villains book is totally unrelated to Foxbat and is _not_ Leroy.  We have a vauguely standsrsized bas guy origin and an attempt to make him a bit "harder edged," but it just xomes off as kind of silly, since it _is_ the Awesome Exoskeleton Man , just unnecesarily reimagined in a way that adds nothing and improves nothing.

 

 

The best portrait of Leroy, I think, was the one in Adventurers Club (though it was a bit smallish); the sexond best are in the old Champions comics where he gies by the name Cybernotron.

 

 

 

Could you remind me where the 5E write-up for Leroy/Exo-Skeleton Man is? Since his last appearance in 4E, I was only aware of the new 6E incarnation of the character as "Exo" in CV3.

 

18 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

No love for Foxbst Unleashed? I worked hard on that one. 🙁

 

If you mean Foxbat Unhinged, I did buy it, but didn't mention it because this isn't supposed to be a Foxbat thread.   There's also a 5E adventure from Blackwyrm Games, Foxbat for President, but I didn't buy that one and don't know much about it. TBH I'm not a Foxbat fan. I acknowledge the character's unique nature and place in Champions history, but I dislike silly supers in general. Deadpool, Lobo, Ambush Bug, John Byrne's She-Hulk... not my cup of tea.

[Cygnia]

Work these guys in...

[dean day]

Encyclopedia Earth 2

As I am going through my collection I am making a setting A to Z bible with just a couple sentences on each character, team, place etc so I can keep it all straight in my head. 

After I have reviewed each  book, i will update the document and post it here so you can see how I am progressing. I thought that would be a better option than putting loads of individual messages up on characters.

 

The rule being that all names as much as possible will be taken from material I own, but sometimes re imagined to fit into the kind of setting I am building in my head. I wont usually do an entry until I come across them in my product review, even though they may be mentioned in other entries.

 

Here is the file after reviewing Champions 2nd edition rulebook. Note that many of the characters are only mentioned in the text. 

Let me know your thoughts. I will next look at the original enemies for champions.

Earth 2 Encyclopedia.docx

[Duke Bushido]

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Could you remind me where the 5E write-up for Leroy/Exo-Skeleton Man is?

 

That is my error.  I typed 5e, and the whole time I was thinking of 6e and the "Exp" rebranding.

 

Thanks for catching it.

 

All the confusion over and specific distaste for the pointless re-invention still stand, however.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

If you mean Foxbat Unhinged, I did buy it, but didn't mention it because this isn't supposed to be a Foxbat thread.

 

I dont think I mentioned Foxbat.  Someone had mentioned finding write-ups for Leroy.  The First write up is possibly the least expensive to acquire and hadn't been mentioned.  I mentioned art because if they haven't seen a write-up, they haven't seen art either: the brief appearances in Champions II are rushed, poor, and not very helpful for presenting him to players who have no idea what he looks like.  Honestly, the art for EXO is smallish, crowded, and isn't terribly helpful, either.

 

 

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

There's also a 5E adventure from Blackwyrm Games, Foxbat for President, but I didn't buy that one and don't know much about it.

 

I will have to re-read them, but I recall being disappointed that Leroy wasn't a big part of either of them. (For what it is worrh, "for president" takes nothing more that a single character  swap and possibly four on-the-fly minor tweaks to become the solid and more serious sort of adventure you might enjoy.  Still, ir's better if you swap in FB for another villain).  Sure, GMs and authors have their favorite characters, and their personal views of how certain characters would act, interact, and organize, etc, and they will use the characters that appeal to them the most.  For me, I can't see FB attracting a group of competent hangers-on, particularly not such a large one.   FB and Leroy are "Team Foxbat" for me, with Charlie as a periodic pop-up from the past with an "if I don't help this idiot this one time, he's going to get himself killed" type attitude.

 

 

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

TBH I'm not a Foxbat fan. I acknowledge the character's unique nature and place in Champions history, but I dislike silly supers in general. Deadpool, Lobo, Ambush Bug, John Byrne's She-Hulk... not my cup of tea.

 

 

I don"t use him often, and when I do, he isn't generally "silly," either.  He clearly has psychological problems and issues with reality (paranoia is a huge one), and suffers from  schizophrenia -- but that "thinks he is in a comic book" and fourth-wall nonsense?  No.  I can't stomach it, either.

 

I _am_, however, the biggest fan of Leroy I have ever encountered.  I treat Leroy as a low-intellect but highly-competent villain.  He can _almost_ see the big picture, but not enough to prepare for everything, or to realize that the flashes of brilliance he sees in the lunatic rantings of FB aren't the signs of a lunatic savant that he believes them be, but the dumb luck of the Simpsons predicting the future.  He stays with FB because he _is_ the former street tough gang kid his origin claimed, and again- he is _not_ stupid, but he isn't quite sharp enough to understand that the street mentality of loyalty without question only traps him in a cycle of failure.  Additionally, FB has unlocked in him- via his constant indulgences in his own delusions, a streak of carefree joy that has brought him the first real "fun" he has hs since childhood:  attackinf a group of agents?  He might wear a tux under his exoskeleton and refer to all the agents as "Mr. Bond" during the battle.  No; he is not crazy.  He is just having fun, and he finds that he is only comfortable enough to give in to these carefree moments when he is partnered up with FB.

 

Now I _did_ say he is competent.  As menrioned above, I don't,use FB a lot- usually when a need a quick takedown to give me time to reorganize something the players have taken _way_ off the rails, or I want to needle a player a bit (Captain Fortitude, FB has decided he likes your style, and wants to learn from you.  As you are on patrol, you notice he is following you, in costume, with a domino mask over his mask, and referring to himself as Valor Boy.  He's fresh out of prison, and has no warrants- yet.  It's going to be a long night....)

 

Leroy, however, gets used pretty regularly.  Sometimes,he's hired muscle (canonically, hanging out with Foxbat is a dead-end as a long-term investment, and he knows that; he stays for other reasons), ans sometimes he himself,is the mastermind of a smaller crime- breaking into a well-gaurded research facility and stealling the plans and prototype of the super-power removal device-  or, as he is no dummy (just not super-villain-level smart), finding it eaiser to steal,it from the guys who stole it last week....   Arranging a sale, etc, etc.  

 

Honestly, in my,own universe, if it wasnt for Leroy's loyalty, FB would have starved to death years ago.  In my game, Leroy is a competent villain with 2d6 of unlucky to represent an oversight or shortfall in his planning--  roll unlucky, results suggest an alarm that he did not notice when casing the place went off, etc, etc.

 

Sorry this drifted:  I am,simply saying that one does not have to like FB _at all_ to see that Leroy is one of the greatest entry-level / vs new Players villains ever written officially: he isn't just a brick, he dreams bigger than "knock off a liquor store," he is a competent fighter-- he is "big time,"  but he has an inherent flaw that prevents him from reaching the level of wiping out an entire super team of even novice heroes.  _That_ is what he hopes to gleen from FB (who, in my games, has pulled it off now and again, but almost exclusively via the dice) during one of his "flashes of brilliance."  (That being 2d6 Luck, which is played as "this was something he had planned for and put X in place just in case")

 

I will beg out for a bit and let you fine folks continue discussing all the myriad  other characters inferior to Leroy in every way.   (       )