Swimming question

[Rich McGee]

3 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

So the character running at 12m would continue forward for 12 before it gravity took over and his forward velocity is canceled.

Physics doesn't work that way.  Your downward acceleration from gravity will certainly make you fall faster and faster, but the only thing reducing your horizontal momentum from running off the roof is wind resistance.  In most cases involving even superhuman physiques you'll likely hit the ground before your horizontal movement comes to a halt - although capes and patagia and whatnot might change the math some.

 

Not really worth worrying much in a game, but (for example) the fact that a bomb only slowly diverges from the horizontal vector it shared with the plane it dropped from is pretty much the basis of the science of putting falling ordnance on target.    

Edited January 16 by Rich McGee

[Gauntlet]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:02 PM, LoneWolf said:

If I run off a cliff, I have momentum does that mean I get to use my running to leap across a gap between buildings without paying for extra leap?  How far can a character with 40m running without any increased leaping jump?  The way I have always done it is that they can leap 4m long and 2m up.  If that is the case, why is swimming any different.  Normally a character's leaping is cut in half unless they have some velocity.  The velocity of the swimming allows the character to use his full upward leap instead of having it halved.  If the character wants anything more, they should pay for it.   

 

If the special effect of the characters swimming is a jet pack, I can easily see it working on land.  If the special effect does support it working on land, then it does not.  Buying usable as a second move is a lot cheaper than buying extra leaping.  +36m swimming normally cost 18 points, adding the advantage usable as a second move (and including that on the base swimming) cost 22 points.  The cost difference is only 4 points.  As a GM I would have no problem allowing a character to purchase this instead of extra leaping to jump out of the water.   

 

If the character does not want to spend the 4 points, then they should simply get their running leap upward.  If they spend the 4 points, they get a 40m long 20m high leap out of the water.   Is charging 4 points for a 20m upward jump that outrageous?   
 

 

Not sure I completely agree, based on what you are saying should I be moving at 100 hexes per phase and there is a 1 hex gap on the ground then I would automatically fall into it. Now I can see a DEX or skill roll required to be able to get over that gap without automatically crashing but stating that you have to purchase another form of movement to cross an approximately 3-foot (1 Meter) spot doesn't make much sense. I would have it require a DEX or Acrobatics roll to be able to cross the space without crashing which becomes harder and harder the longer the distance (perhaps even -1 per meter) that also comes with a maximum (perhaps 10% of the movement). Then if you wanted a character who could automatically jump gaps like that without any chance of crashing, then they would purchase jumping or flight.

[LoneWolf]

All characters have some leaping unless they sell it back.  The standard character has a 4m running leap.  My question was not can they clear a 1m gap, they can do twice that with a standing leap.  My question was can a character with 40m of running clear a 40m gap without buying up their leap?  

[Gauntlet]

I was stating that even if the character has bought back their leaping they should still be able to cross a short gap if they are running fast enough like 10 times the gap.

[Christopher R Taylor]

 

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My question was can a character with 40m of running clear a 40m gap without buying up their leap? 

 

Well, that depends.  Is the landing significantly lower than the launch point?  If its even, then no, you fall through like Neo in the Matrix.  Leaping does not gain from run speed. If you have a drop then you might make it, from sheer momentum as Rich McGee explains.  As a GM I'd just wing it, this isn't supposed to be a physics simulator.  My instinct would be to look at the angle and just guess, based on experience throwing and dropping things through life.  You go this fast, you go this far before air resistance causes your forward momentum to slow and stop.

 

If you have some roll like Acrobatics, I might give you a better chance of landing it parkour style.  You'll still take fall damage from the difference in height but with breakfall you can mitigate it.

[Doc Democracy]

11 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

You go this fast, you go this far before air resistance causes your forward momentum to slow and stop.

 

I think air resistance is not the key rate limiting step here.  I think your velocity will reduce slightly over time, the big factor is how quickly gravity slams you into the ground. 

 

Essentially, your basic leap gives you 2m up. 

 

Gravity immediately begins to drop you toward the ground. Your velocity is likely to stay constant until you hit the ground.  I will go work out how long it takes to fall 2m.  🙂

 

[Doc Democracy]

The answer is about 0.65 seconds. A SPD 6 character running at 40m goes 40m in 2 seconds.  So would go 13m.

 

This will vary with running and SPD of each character in working out how far they move in 0.65 seconds....but as Christopher says, we are not doing physics, we are playing a game.

 

I would fudge towards reasonable feats for heroic purposes, possibly giving harder rolls the bigger the stretch being asked by the player.

[Duke Bushido]

15 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

 My question was not can they clear a 1m gap, they can do twice that with a standing leap.  My question was can a character with 40m of running clear a 40m gap without buying up their leap?  

 

 

This is more complicated than it sounds if you are going for realism (which I assume you are,or it would be a non-issue).

 

Determine the characters movement speed per half-second.

 

Determine the character's apex height of his vertical leap and his leaping distance per half-second.

 

Determine how many inches he will move until he achieves apex.  At that point, begin to apply falling (per half second while he moves forward.  At the point he comes back in contact with the ground, you have determined how wide a gap he can cross.

 

If it helps, I am 63 and in terrible condition.  I have two forms of movement (running and swimming) a barely any appreciable leaping- bad back, bad knees, an getting heavier as I age.

 

I can running clear a one-point-five meter gap without breaking stride.

 

I have no flight (so far as I am willing to test).

 

 

 

 

[Rich McGee]

If your ground movement can still legitimately be called "running" you're doing better than I am.  I prefer to think of it as a "determined stride" at this point, but "lumbering advance" might be more accurate.

 

Still swimming well, although the breast stroke wreaks havoc on my knees if I do more than a few laps.  Rather stick to the crawl or backstroke.

50 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

I have no flight (so far as I am willing to test).

No reason not to at least try in an emergency, though.  What's the worst that could happen, your tombstone reads "He died flapping" or something? 

[Christopher R Taylor]

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I would fudge towards reasonable feats for heroic purposes, possibly giving harder rolls the bigger the stretch being asked by the player.

 

Right, if it could go either way, give it to the player character.  If they probably wouldn't make it, let them just barely pull it off, gripping to the edge of the building with their fingernails.  Use a DEX or appropriate roll to get up safely.  This is HERO games, not chump games like real life where you'll probably fail and die.