Transform Advantage

[MistWing]

Hi there. Me again with yet another of my weird questions.

 

According to the rule book, if I use a Transform attack, the method of reversing the transformation is either: healing back the Body; or a common or easily identifiable method. What I would like to know is, what advantage cost would you require for the reverse to be neither? Note that there would still be a method of reversing it, just that it would be very difficult to discover what it is.

 

One thing I just now thought of would be to buy the skill Concealment and make it a part of the Transform power. It would conceal the reverse method. Would that be acceptable?

 

Note for those who say it should just be GMO... in our games, we don't like having the NPCs be able to do something that the PCs couldn't (assuming that they purchased the appropriate powers, etc). So, for a lot of things, we tend not to use GMO where others may well do so.

 

So, in conclusion, would you allow the skill idea to work? If not, what advantage cost would you apply to Transform?

 

Thanks

MistWing SilverTail

[Chris Goodwin]

Maybe something with Invisible Power Effects?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Transform Advantage

 

Originally posted by MistWing

what advantage cost would you require for the reverse to be neither? Note that there would still be a method of reversing it, just that it would be very difficult to discover what it is.

One thing I just now thought of would be to buy the skill Concealment and make it a part of the Transform power. It would conceal the reverse method. Would that be acceptable?

If I was GMing, it would be difficult to persuade me to allow this at all. If I did allow it for some reason, I would certainly make it much more expensive than simply tacking a 3-point Concealment Skill on it. I would require at least a +1.5 Advantage (the same value as Attack Versus Limited Defense).

[Hugh Neilson]

Let's assume as a GM you're comfortable with the power (I'm not sure I would be, but it depends on the effects) to mnake discussion easier.

 

I'm inclined to view the Transform as a form of Adjustment Power and allow the power to heal BOD, but move the rate 1 notch up the time chart for every +1/4 advantage. REC per 10 years or so would seem to ensure the character won't "untransform" in a NCM campaign. REC per 100 years would seem toi do the trick for anyone who doesn't regenerate, and might be inclined to handwave the Regen in that regard (at least it would move the same # of steps up the time chart).

[Jhamin]

I would point out that existing characters already have some really nasty reversal effects.

 

If Slug from CKC transforms you the only way back is a mystic ritual that requires you to have the Talisman of the Elder Worm. I don't know about most campaigns, but in mine that is alot harder to accomplish than just staying in the hospital for a few weeks.

[Outsider]

I've always been a bit uncomfortable with transform for that reason.

 

You can heal the body back. OK... Easy enough.

 

You can have an instant reversal condition that is EITHER commonly available or easily identifiable.

 

So the reversal circumstance can be nearly impossibly to accomplish so long as it is easily identifiable?

 

Librarian : "Yes, yes, right here in Skippy's Guide to Transformations...If you're turned into a pig via the spell Hocus Porcus , it is a mere matter of bathing the undiluted death's blood of the Demon Prince Orcus to change back. Oh, and you have to be on his throne in the nether dimensions at the time. Good luck and good bye."

[austenandrews]

Maybe a non-sequitur, but I've always assumed that the GM can impose other conditions to reverse a Transform, beyond those specifically listed when the power is bought. So if you have a magical Transform, presumably a powerful wizard can figure out some previously-unstated way to reverse or dispel the effects. That leaves open the possibility of future adventure scenarios and cuts down on rules-lawyering.

 

-AA

[Outsider]

True. Presumably, in a fantasy setting, the state of being transformed is a continuing magical effect of a sort. Hence the GM might rule that a simple dispell that effects magic, or just transforms, might work to cure it.

 

 

Trueform :

This spell attempts to remove any transformative effects from the creature or object it is cast upon. It does so by drawing the magic from the transformed object towards the caster, then diverting it to a decoy in the form of a life size statue of the caster. If done properly, the target reverts to his normal form, and the statue transforms into whatever the target was. If done improperly, it can result in a contagion of the transformation to the caster, fueled by the power of his own spell, and no change to the target. If the decoy is a poor likeness of the caster, his odds of successfully casting the spell remain the same, but he might not be able to divert the magic away from himself. (Game terms : apply a skill modifier for the quality of the statue, if the mage fails due to the modifier, the target is still dispelled, but the mage takes the side effect)

 

6 (60) Dispell - 20d6 - Transformations

______(-1/4) Gestures

______(-1/4) Incantations

______(-1/2) Skill Roll

______(-1/2) Concentration - 0 DCV

______(-2 1/2) Extra Time, 1 Hour

______(-1 3/4) Focus - Obvious, Accessible, Bulky, Expendable, Expensive

______(-1) Increased Endurance - 3x End

______(-1/2) No Range

______(-1) Side Effect (1/2 caster's BODY *d6 transform mimicing the transform he is trying to dispell)

 

 

 

 

 

Note : The side effect is set up the way it is to keep casters with higher body, or who boost their body before casting, from being immune to it. If this weren't done, the limitation wouldnt actually be limiting in many cases. (ie, a 13 Body caster could fail to dispell major trasnforms all day and be safe. The side effect would only be 4d6, which maxes at 24. Only enough to change a 12 body target.)

[zornwil]

Good question, actually, it seems to me from most examples that the method to reverse is (as Jhamin and Outsider pointed out) rarely easy or common. Personally I never thought of Transforms in the same light as NNDs and have no problem with them being difficult to counter. In fact in general I've been fairly liberal with them and the adjustment powers. I give them "at range" as a default part of the power, no extra cost; then again, all characters have some defense as I eliminated Power Defense and unless otherwise defined these attacks go against "Supernatural Defense" (hey, it's just as vague, okay?) which is based on INT/5.

 

I dunno, so far it's fit my games okay.

 

As far as the question regarding the concealment skill being applied to mask the Transformational undo, I don't know, I might allow it, but I like much better using IPE (as Archer suggested). That is normally how I do such things, and I think it's the best fit in terms of how they are intended and how the game works.

[M-3]

If I liked the transform power designed in general, I'd just allow it for free because I'm such a swell guy.

 

Especially since I'd allow my NPCs to do the same.