Chuckg Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 *visibly represses urge to get into major-league Honor Harrington geekboy fan discussion* Re: the recent Flinx novels -- I liked 'Flinx In Flux", it filled in a necessary gap between 'The End of the Matter' and "Bloodhype' and did so very well. The last two, OTOH... /sigh/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 The first few Flinx books were excellent. The last couple sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by Hermit I sometimes wonder what would happen if Foxbat commisioned a job from Teleios, and Teleios said "Oh, what the hell..." took the money, and did it. I don't know, Brain, what /would/ Britney Spears look like with pink hair and big anime eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by Gary The first few Flinx books were excellent. The last couple sucked. I'm afraid I must reluctantly agree, much as I like the series overall. I think Foster's problem is he's run into the "Superman Syndrome" with Flinx: He's made his character so powerful he has to go to absurd lengths to create challenges. In a universe of normals, our hero has the mental powers of Professor X. And I still liked his "Founding of the Commonwealth" series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg I don't know, Brain, what /would/ Britney Spears look like with pink hair and big anime eyes? Heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg A bit large scale for Teleios... "You know, there are fifty people -- fifty poor, innocent, hardworking little people -- out there. People who are very, very ill. People who can continue to lead healthy and productive lives instead of being bedridden in terminal agony only because of the serums that I can make for them. And only I know how to make them. And I can't keep their supply going if I'm in jail, now can I? Are you willing to let them die just so you can win? Who are they? Where do they live? You know, I seem to have completely forgotten! Isn't that an odd thing for one of my intellect to have happen! Must be the stress of the moment. Terrible thing, stress. I much prefer to avoid it whenever I can. You foiled my latest Master Plan and defeated my creations. Now content yourselves with that victory... and get the hell out of my house." And then, a week or so afterward, the heroes get several news clippings/internet links detailing the dozen folks who just died horrible, unspeakable deaths when their immune systems went haywire and ate their internal organs -- along with a note: "I wasn't kidding. Think about this, the next time you feel the urge to annoy me with your petty moralizing." BTW, considering everything I've read from the fringes of 'genetic ethics', arguing that cripples, the retarded, the 'useless eaters', etc., be euthanized for the good of the species -- wonder if old Telly might ever try to pull something like that? To him, making such a question no longer academic but a real concern might sound like a great way to prove his own theories about human nature -- or simply to have some sick fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Eeee-yow... now /that's/ Iron Age. The inescapable loss-of-life dilemna The "Bronze Age" answer to this dilemna, where the heroes actually /do/ find a way out, is something like... Hero Team Leader -- "Teleios, do you really expect me to believe that you spend that much of your valuable time doing the same routine drudge work over and over again every month? And personally addressing the envelopes and licking stamps? That would be servant work, and I know your vanity would keep you from ever doing /that/. So excuse me while our team telepath goes to talk to some of your drone lab assistants. "Oh yes, and my gadgeteer buddy just informed me of something called a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) machine, which can reproduce quantities of any genetic sample from one little thing. We're going to put out a public announcement for those fifty people to come in... with last month's vial. Which we'll then scrape for DNA traces. And turn over to Dr. Silverback. Maybe he can't invent your cures from scratch, but he can copy them." Teleios -- "Bravo! You figured out my little puzzle! How good for you! Ah well, at least I haven't played this week's game with a /total/ imbecile. Put on the cuffs, this is what I pay lawyers for. And I'll be out in a month anyway." Team Leader -- "Not /this/ time!" (*) (*) DM's option as to whether or not said optimism is unfounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg I don't know, Brain, what /would/ Britney Spears look like with pink hair and big anime eyes? Her last concert appearance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Watcher Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg I can imagine Teleios doing something similar to the heroes... "You know, there are fifty people -- fifty poor, innocent, hardworking little people -- out there. People who are very, very ill. People who can continue to lead healthy and productive lives instead of being bedridden in terminal agony only because of the serums that I can make for them. And only I know how to make them. And I can't keep their supply going if I'm in jail, now can I? Are you willing to let them die just so you can win? Who are they? Where do they live? You know, I seem to have completely forgotten! Isn't that an odd thing for one of my intellect to have happen! Must be the stress of the moment. Terrible thing, stress. I much prefer to avoid it whenever I can. You foiled my latest Master Plan and defeated my creations. Now content yourselves with that victory... and get the hell out of my house." Warp: Hold on a minute. *Teleports away, and then back* Warp: Ok, I've got the warrant. Horus: Warmaster Fielan, Psi-Legionaire, proceed. *The identies are ripped from Telios' mind* Warmaster Fielan: Here are there locations. Starguard: I'll go cure them now. EDIT: Damn, you beat me to it, Chuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Hmm, guess Teleios probably should bite the bullet and inject himself with the Mental Defense gene. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Not necessary, really -- one of the sidebars in the CU supplement mentions that even normal humans can get up to 20 points of Mental Defense via the right meditative training and mental exercises. The entire US Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail (in the Champions U) has undergone such training. It must be relatively time-consuming and/or expensive, though, as it's /not/ universal for PRIMUS agents and Silver Avengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg Eeee-yow... now /that's/ Iron Age. The inescapable loss-of-life dilemna The "Bronze Age" answer to this dilemna, where the heroes actually /do/ find a way out, is something like... Hero Team Leader -- "Teleios, do you really expect me to believe that you spend that much of your valuable time doing the same routine drudge work over and over again every month? And personally addressing the envelopes and licking stamps? That would be servant work, and I know your vanity would keep you from ever doing /that/. So excuse me while our team telepath goes to talk to some of your drone lab assistants. "Oh yes, and my gadgeteer buddy just informed me of something called a Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) machine, which can reproduce quantities of any genetic sample from one little thing. We're going to put out a public announcement for those fifty people to come in... with last month's vial. Which we'll then scrape for DNA traces. And turn over to Dr. Silverback. Maybe he can't invent your cures from scratch, but he can copy them." Teleios -- "Bravo! You figured out my little puzzle! How good for you! Ah well, at least I haven't played this week's game with a /total/ imbecile. Put on the cuffs, this is what I pay lawyers for. And I'll be out in a month anyway." Team Leader -- "Not /this/ time!" (*) (*) DM's option as to whether or not said optimism is unfounded. hrm. If I was a right royal ass... 'True, true. Of course, you didn't think I'd make it something that simple... did you? It's a mutating condition, one that snaps to a random form each lunar cycle. I actually have to spend an entire day each month working out the changes so I can cure this month's malady... but I love the challenge. I repeat myself. OUT!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 "Oh, we're in an Iron Age game?" *cracks knuckles* "OK, new rules. Option A -- you voluntarily tell us everything we need to know so that the people can lead healthy lives without being dependent on you." "And what's Option B?" (cue 'The Rock' voice) "I make you." Granted, some of my characters can't go this far -- but some others will go "OK, if the DM is going to hit me with 'unsolvable' dilemnas that only the methods of the Authority can combat, then fine, we'll be the friggin' Authority." For example, I would /highly/ advise that Teleios never pull this kind of shite on Baron von Darien -- at least, not if he wants to retain the ability to chew solid food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg "Oh, we're in an Iron Age game?" *cracks knuckles* "OK, new rules. Option A -- you voluntarily tell us everything we need to know so that the people can lead healthy lives without being dependent on you." "And what's Option B?" (cue 'The Rock' voice) "I make you." Granted, some of my characters can't go this far -- but some others will go "OK, if the DM is going to hit me with 'unsolvable' dilemnas that only the methods of the Authority can combat, then fine, we'll be the friggin' Authority." For example, I would /highly/ advise that Teleios never pull this kind of shite on Baron von Darien -- at least, not if he wants to retain the ability to chew solid food. It's not unwinnable... it's just that, there and then, he's going to walk. Hence enabling plot lines of the PC's trying to find a way around it. Mystical cures, a change of heart, time travel plots... but the guilty man walks free until then. I think that makes for better stories than revolving door prison policies. I mean, I'd be happy having my PC hate this bastard... 'cause he will find a way to get him. Eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Trebuchet One of Alan Dean Foster's "Flinx" novels featured a drug called Bloodhype (Also the name of the book) which totally and irreversibly caused addiction in the first use, withdrawal caused agonizing death, and which could affect any known species in the galaxy. IMO, that's reason enough not to bother with the novel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 > It's not unwinnable... As stated, it is. If Teleios has to spend a day of effort to cure them every month, and he's the only person in the world who can possibly do it, then that is a blackmail threat you cannot get around until the end of time. Without adding in Mystic Plaht Devices, of course. But if Mystic Plaht Devices are added in as the only way PCs can escape 'unescapable' dilemnas, then that really kills the sense of accomplishment. "OK, PCs, today you get to find the answer I provided for the dilemna I made up!" "We already solved that dilemna. Then you retconned out of your butt to make our solution not work." "No, I had it planned that way all along, really!" "Whatever. So, what's tonight's quest?" "You must travel back in time and find the mystic cure to stop Teleios' deadly disease!" "Oh, whoopee, /another/ round of Chase-The-MacGuffin." Remember, my answer above was written in reply to a message that took what was already some very sharp deductive work by the hypothetical team of PCs... and made it totally irrelevant by hauling yet /another/ genetic Deus Ex Machina out of Teleios' butt to pile on top of the first one. I dunno about you, but if I have PCs who actually bother to pay that much attention to detail and think it through that thoroughly, I'm not going to let such behavior go unrewarded simply because my plot /demands/ that Teleios be free next scene. Instead, I'll go with the damn flow... and then find some other way to break him out of jail. Including retconning in Wolfram & Hart, if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I mean, cripes, there's always the age-old... "You take Teleios to jail. As you're checking him into central booking, 'Teleios' laughs in your face and dissolves into a puddle of protoplasm. Looks like he left a self-destructing organic dummy of some type behind to do the mocking speech while he already had his bags packed." "Damn! How the hell were we supposed to figure that out?" "Using Psi-Man's Mind Scan ability to confirm that the guy you were arresting actually was the guy you were after, when you already knew he was the world's greatest master of cloning?" "Doh! You're right, our mistake." "Hey, Doombots always worked for Doom." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg I mean, cripes, there's always the age-old... "You take Teleios to jail. As you're checking him into central booking, 'Teleios' laughs in your face and dissolves into a puddle of protoplasm. Looks like he left a self-destructing organic dummy of some type behind to do the mocking speech while he already had his bags packed." "Damn! How the hell were we supposed to figure that out?" "Using Psi-Man's Mind Scan ability to confirm that the guy you were arresting actually was the guy you were after, when you already knew he was the world's greatest master of cloning?" "Doh! You're right, our mistake." "Hey, Doombots always worked for Doom." AND the smartest (published) man in the world, let us not forget... This was my other option, yes. I still think 'better take care of insurance policy personally... oh, this is boring. How can I make it more challenging...?' is reflective of his personality. And, incidently, I've seen few teams that, once they knew who the 50 were, couldn't figure out some kind of cure even without a Deus Ex-Machina. They showed remarkable deductive ability. I'd use that to lead them into an investigative scenario. All of this is hypothetical anyway; I don't run CU games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 > They showed remarkable deductive ability. I'd use that to > lead them into an investigative scenario. Then let the /next/ adventure and the /next/ supervillain be about cracking a big mystery. When players do good, they deserve to enjoy a victory. If the only reward for a job well done is an arbitrary rewrite to make the job tougher, they will rapidly stop putting so much effort into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg > They showed remarkable deductive ability. I'd use that to > lead them into an investigative scenario. Then let the /next/ adventure and the /next/ supervillain be about cracking a big mystery. When players do good, they deserve to enjoy a victory. If the only reward for a job well done is an arbitrary rewrite to make the job tougher, they will rapidly stop putting so much effort into it. Assuming I was to play Telios with genetic blackmail (which I wouldn't. I liked 'and WHO is going to convict him?' better), I'd have him do have done that. It's logical, at least to me. Your brilliant PCs made assumptions that run counter to how I see him working... However, 'okay, I was caught with m'trousers. That works.' is fine, as long as it really should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Chuckg Not necessary, really -- one of the sidebars in the CU supplement mentions that even normal humans can get up to 20 points of Mental Defense via the right meditative training and mental exercises. The entire US Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail (in the Champions U) has undergone such training. It must be relatively time-consuming and/or expensive, though, as it's /not/ universal for PRIMUS agents and Silver Avengers. I'd call that an oversight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromatic Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Chuckg I don't know, Brain, what /would/ Britney Spears look like with pink hair and big anime eyes? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Peregrine Her last concert appearance? Naw, she'd look like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I have another sick plot for Teleios I’m considering incorporating into the strange defenders creates a number of subservient clones with pediatricians who then substitute standard child hood immunizations for more insidious concoctions. The pediatricians monitor the children as they grow and eventually if the process is particularly interesting Teleios may kidnap them to analyze the effects of his process(read imprison, run a huge battery of tests and probably end up with vivisection). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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