Trebuchet Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Almafeta That's why it's called a capsule review. As I said in the forum below the review, I could not find anyone willing to playtest it. You'll pardon me if I'm not up to speed on the technicalities of review types? As for not playtesting it, that's entirely your fault for not looking harder for Hero gamers to try it with. I find it difficult to believe you were totally unable to locate any Hero gamers. We've got people on the Hero boards literally around the world. Of course, given your apparent anti-Hero bias I doubt you made much of a sales pitch to non-Hero gamers to try it: "I've got this really sucky RPG game called Hero I want to try out so I can write a review. Wanna help me?" Oh yeah. Furthermore, since you stated you couldn't find testplayers it would have behooved you to either read the rules a bit more carefully or asked for clarification when you were confused. I guarantee no other game company or fans are as helpful towards new players as this one is. Where else can you ask a rules question and have it answered by the game's designer in 15 minutes? As it was your lack of understanding on so many individual points of Hero was like reviewing a football game by referencing the rules for rugby. Heck, based on your presentation of the Hero rules I would have been turned off by the game. Of course, I would also have wondered what game you were describing since it sure didn't sound like Hero System. It's ironic how you were so pleased on rpg.net that you were finally getting "constructive criticism" about your article that you couldn't even see fit to attempt the same thing with your review in the first place. Where was your constructive criticism of Hero? Like any simulation, Hero is not without it's intrinsic flaws. That's the nature of any simulation or game. Would you write a review of chess by saying "It's an oversimplified model of warfare, and the mounted knights move using a different game mechanic than any other unit . Furthermore there's no list of equipment costs or any explanation of why you only have two knights, two bishops and two rooks but eight pawns, so the whole game blows chunks"? Sure that's correct so far as it goes, but it hardly tells the whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almafeta Posted February 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Trebuchet You'll pardon me if I'm not up to speed on the technicalities of review types? Capsule: Based on a read, or a single playtest. Less informative, less likely to be biased. My stock in trade (not by choice). Playtest: Based on a long playtest, such as the work Dan Davenport does. More informative, more likely to be biased. ("Oh, damn I hate the combat system! Little Jimmy was able to twist it around so much!" -- bad experiences coloring the review.) Originally posted by Trebuchet I guarantee no other game company or fans are as helpful towards new players as this one is. The first four pages of this thread disprove that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Almafeta The first four pages of this thread disprove that. Really? I suppose it's completely unreasonable and unfriendly when someone posts an inaccurate and full of fallicies "review" and those who've actually read the materials point out these errors, eh? Translation: "I came out swinging, I hit first, and now they aren't being friendly. They're all liars!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 As is common everywhere, it's sometimes difficult for people to let go of defending a position they feel strongly about. Even if it's clearly not going to change some opposing opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden As is common everywhere, it's sometimes difficult for people to let go of defending a position they feel strongly about. Even if it's clearly not going to change some opposing opinions. I certainly understand your point here LL, which is why I have refused to get involved in this whole mess in the first place. It takes enough of my energy to argue with people who do know something about the HERO System. I don't need to waste more of it arguing with someone who has clearly shown no such knowledge. Unfortunately, anyone who wants to do a search over at rpg.net can clearly see the esteem Almafeta hold for the HERO System and its players. The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Almafeta, because she is not here to learn anything about the game. Almafeta is here to get some cheap thrills while throwing water balloons at the HERO System players. Almafeta is going to pretend to "ooh" and "ah," but really she's just here to poke the tiger in the zoo with a stick. The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Almafeta in the same way we ignored Shade in all his incarnations. Almafeta's mind is not going to be changed. Over a year of negativity toward the HERO System on RPG.net clearly shows that. So forget about her and her review and lets all just move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Almafeta The first four pages of this thread disprove that. By your own admission you are not a player, and it appears you have never played Hero at all in any incarnation of the system. Further, you didn't come here seeking information or help, you came here to attack Hero. You registered here and posted here for the sole purpose of bashing Hero on its own ground. If you had come here with an open mind and asked honest questions you would have recieved more assistance than you would have possibly needed. /sarcasm on/ Hero Games is so close minded and uptight about competition they've actually done a crossover with Guardians of Order, one of their competitors in the superhero genre. /sarcasm off/ So my statement was entirely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Alma has already posted a couple of threads requesting help (or information), and received a decent amount of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 I am not sure about RPG net (I dont post there), but did anyone (regardless of opinion of Hero or the review) find it odd that this is a review of a rulebook released some time ago (by game standards?). Generally reviews of books, movies, music, and othert media are time sensitive. A review of UNTIL or VIPER would be proper, but of FRED? It seems oddd to have the game reviewed so late in the game. My as well review Deities and Demigods for 3.0 while your at it. My 2 ep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Reviewing old products is not at all unusual for rpg.net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by Monolith Unfortunately, anyone who wants to do a search over at rpg.net can clearly see the esteem Almafeta hold for the HERO System and its players. The best thing everyone can do is just ignore Almafeta, because she is not here to learn anything about the game. Almafeta is here to get some cheap thrills while throwing water balloons at the HERO System players. Almafeta is going to pretend to "ooh" and "ah," but really she's just here to poke the tiger in the zoo with a stick. This is not about Almafeta's review, but about Almafeta. Knock it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted February 2, 2004 Report Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by rjcurrie Reviewing old products is not at all unusual for rpg.net. It's encouraged, actually. The point isn't so much to be timely, like with movie reviews, but to build up an extensive review database. I've even heard the admins lament that there aren't more reviews of "classic" products. Heck, I buy old products all the time, and I appreciate being able to view some opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by buzz It's encouraged, actually. The point isn't so much to be timely, like with movie reviews, but to build up an extensive review database. I've even heard the admins lament that there aren't more reviews of "classic" products. Heck, I buy old products all the time, and I appreciate being able to view some opinions. Who encourages it, the RPG Net people? What Database of reviews? Also wouldn't a responsible reviewer note the genre books instead of calling the game "Settingless" I see your point about reviewing classic games(I buy them too!) but in this case that is clearly not the intent. I do not frequent the site so have no real basis to dispute you or Rod, but almost all reviews in other publications are timely (besides being accurate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by Keneton Who encourages it, the RPG Net people? What Database of reviews? The review database at RPG.net is searchable. You can read reviews from when the site first launched to current. Originally posted by Keneton Also wouldn't a responsible reviewer note the genre books instead of calling the game "Settingless" A responsible reviewer, yes. Originally posted by Keneton I see your point about reviewing classic games(I buy them too!) but in this case that is clearly not the intent. I do not frequent the site so have no real basis to dispute you or Rod, but almost all reviews in other publications are timely (besides being accurate). You can only expect so much timeliness when you don't compensate your reviewers. Still, the kind of people who like to volunteer time to write reviews also tend to be people who keep abreast of new releases, so it tends to work out in the end. Still, it's to uncommon for people to review "less-than-new" products; proper playtesting can often take a long time. I remember one review of the AD&D2e adventure Night below that the reviewer didn't complete until years after it was released... because it took his group that long to finish it. For all the things we can fault Alma for, timeliness is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by Keneton Also wouldn't a responsible reviewer note the genre books instead of calling the game "Settingless" (a) Hero 5th does not include a default setting, nor was it written for a specific setting. Ergo, it is settingless. ( Genre book != setting. A genre book can be just as settingless as a rulebook. HTH. HAND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keneton Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by archer (a) Hero 5th does not include a default setting, nor was it written for a specific setting. Ergo, it is settingless. ( Genre book != setting. A genre book can be just as settingless as a rulebook. HTH. HAND. To say that 5E Rule book has no setting and calling something "Settingless" have a completely different connotation. Please don't nitpick what is obviously poor intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Keneton To say that 5E Rule book has no setting and calling something "Settingless" have a completely different connotation. What's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I think the point Keneton is trying to make (and I'm not sure I agree with him) is that saying that the 5th Edition book contains no setting implies that there is no setting information in that particular book, while saying that it is settingless implies that no setting exists for the game at all. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintara Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 "Settingless" sounds like a lack. "The book has no particular setting" would be more like a condition. That said, a review can and should have negative language. Some people do think it's a lack. And I don't think it's misleading, if one knows anything about RPGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 Did we ever get a definitive answer as to what sex this person is? We should at least know if we should be saying "he" or "she." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by PhilFleischmann Did we ever get a definitive answer as to what sex this person is? We should at least know if we should be saying "he" or "she." He, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHawk Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 my 2 cents, FWIW I just posted the following on the RPGnet boards & thought I would share it here: "Unlike you (the previous poster said Hero didn't work for supers campaigns ) , I have found Hero to actually work BEST in a superhero setting. That is, in fact, what the system was originally designed for. It is, in my opinion, the best system for a "detailed" & rules-heavy style of play, as it has over its several incarnations, been expanded to fit any continguency. It does have some problems, especially the high learning curve in comparison to d20, for instance (but even D&D has gotten more complex over the 23+ years I've played it, lol). The most difficult genre to use hero in is probably High Fantasy. It's difficult to work up spells "on-the-fly" & in the past there really wasn't a good premade spellbook to use. The current owner(s) have tried to solve that by putting out the "Fantasy Hero Grimoure", which helps. That is a good example of the way they are trying to support the system & its fans. I salute that effort. Another thing that has been improved is the quality of the physical books themselves. Much improved over the past ;-) These are all good moves & I am happy I bought many of these books & plan to buy more of them. That said, I often don't need all those rules. I run games based far more on role-playing and developing intricate plots than rolling dice. But, when I DO want or need to have such detail, its nice to have a system that can take whatever I throw at it and handle it reasonably. For me, HERO is that system and I can live with what blemishes it has.If you are a really into the types of games that I am, you just need a system that you are comfortable with, because you will NOT find a perfect one -- It doesn't exist." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by PhilFleischmann Did we ever get a definitive answer as to what sex this person is? We should at least know if we should be saying "he" or "she." Shanya Almafeta claims to be transgendered, and seemed to be quite offended when I referred to her as "he" when posting a response to her review. So, I've been using the feminine since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by archer (a) Hero 5th does not include a default setting, nor was it written for a specific setting. Ergo, it is settingless. ( Genre book != setting. A genre book can be just as settingless as a rulebook. HTH. HAND. So, what's your point? Genre-books aren't settings? So, he should have said that the reviewer could have pointed out the SETTING books, which Hero ALSO puts out, with more on the schedule. This is just splitting hairs, the criticism of the usage of "settingless" is still valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Shanya Almafeta claims to be transgendered, and seemed to be quite offended when I referred to her as "he" when posting a response to her review. So, I've been using the feminine since then. Dag. I could have sworn it was the other way around. :makes mental note in preparation for forthcoming Alma HERO-bashing on RPG.net: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Pattern Ghost So, what's your point? Genre-books aren't settings? So, he should have said that the reviewer could have pointed out the SETTING books, which Hero ALSO puts out, with more on the schedule. This is just splitting hairs, the criticism of the usage of "settingless" is still valid. My point was, she wasn't reviewing the genre or setting books. She was reviewing Hero 5th. When reviewing one book, one typically doesn't review other books in the same review. One especially doesn't tend to point out positive qualities of even other books related to a book one is bashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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