JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Okay, with the amount of talk about archers on the boards recently I am curious about former archers, so let's assemble a list of archers that have been published by Hero (Bow or Crossbow based characters) CKC: Warpath Classic Enemies: Rainbow Archer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 To Serve and Protect: Huntsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightray Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Circle and M.E.T.E.: Kor Hunter. ... whom I always thought was hunting "kor(s)". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Strike Force: Red Archer European Enemies: Hood Dark Champions: Crossbow Allies: Crossbow Kingdom of Champions: Yeoman Watchers of the Dragon: Yoshi Golden Age Champions: Fletcher Murderer's Row: Origami Champions of the North: Minstrel (although primarily a music-based spellcaster) Digital Hero #17: Scarlet Archer You might also include the Huntsman of the Black Forest from European Enemies, although he used a sword as much as a bow - not to mention a pack of demonic hounds. Then there are two archer gods from Greek myth, Artemis and Apollo, who were written up in The Olympians. Conquerors, Killers and Crooks also presented a version of the Chinese war god Guan Di modified to be more of an archer-god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I know this it out of place but most/all of these characters have charges on there MP slots 4c -1lim etc, can they not take 4c on the MP to refect 4c per slot rather than 4c on the whole MP, just seems wrong and out of step with other MP lims ( maybe 2 levels less on the chart ie 8c -1lim,16c -1/2lim etc). Its annoyed me for years, and im sure there was something about this in one of the books but i cant find it. Ch 3 possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Actualy Vorch, no they can not. If you take charges on the MP then the MP is limited. Two characters have the following MP's Bowman: 30 Bow & Arrows (60 point Reserve): OAF 3u 4d6 RKA: 16 charges -0 3u 12d6 EB: 16 Charges -0 Bowman can now use either slot 16 times, for a total of 32 shots Crossbow on the otherhand has 30 Crossbow & bolts (60 point reserve): OAF, 16 charges 3u 4d6 RKA 3u 12d6 EB Crossbow can shoot 16 bolts, it does not matter which kind he fires. There are advantages to both (but not at the -0level I have used here). Mainly the Bowman's way is more expensive BUT Crossbow would normaly get more versitility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Most Archery charcters have abot 10 slots, which makes a big difference. Is 4c per slot not a limitation on a MP, if not -1 how much? ( HOUSE RULE ) MP can have charge applying to each slot. cos seems limiting to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 They can have it, the problem is that if they take 4 charges then they can only use 4 arrows. Think of it this way: Hawkeye uses a modular arrow system, he has so many arrowheads, but only so many shafts, when he goes to fire one he takes a head puts it on the shaft and fires it. This would be represented by taking charges on the MP itself (to represent the total number of arrows in the quiver). So if he took 12 charges he would have 12 shafts to fire with Green arrow on the other hand keeps his heads on his arrows, he might take 4 Blast Arrows, 4 Smoke Arrows, and 4 Razor Sharp Arrows, but these will be limits on the slots instead of the MP itself. The advantages are as follows for each one Let's assume they each have the same kind of arrows: Hawkeye's MP 27 Reserve -1/4 12 Charges, OAF 3u 4d6 RKA 3u 6" Darkness 3u 8d6 EB, Explosion 3u 8d6 Flash, Explosion ------ 39 Points Green Arrows MP 30 60 Reserve OAF 2u 4d6 RKA 3 Charges (-1 1/4) 2u 6" Darkness 3 Charges (-1 1/4) 2u 8d6 EB, Explosion 3 Charges (-1 1/4) 2u 8d6 Flash, Explosion 3 Charges (-1 1/4) ------ 38 Okay, both have 12 arrows, GL has saved a point but can ony use each type three times, Hawkeye on the other hand can use 12 blast arrows if he so chooses (But he will be out of shafts and can no longer use anyothers afterwards) Think of it this way if it helps, by letting them take charges on the MP and use each slot that many times you are actualy giving an advantage, to use your figures of 4 charges and 10 slots, you are giving a -1 lim to be able to use the MP 40 times, you are essentialy giving a +1/2 advantage for a -1 lim... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 At what point in time ( edition ) was it expicitly stated that a MP with a lim of 4c affected the MP reserve rather than the slots, after all 0 dcv on a mp reserve means nothing in and of itself. And i repeat is a MP with lim 4c per slot a lim? PS it also means that there arrow selection change by need not by what they have ( small quibble its genre after all ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I don't have a copy of 4th here, so: I think it was not in 3rd I know it is in 5th I know we played it that way in 4th So I would guess it was in 4th, but probablly in one of the supplement to it (Maybe Dark Champions:HOV or EfE considering the writer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I don't remember the MP Reserve/Slots Limitation difference being spelled out officially before 5E. In fact the first time I saw it declared was in a transcript of a chat-room discussion that Steve Long held about the upcoming 5th Edition back in (IIRC) 1999, in response to a question. BTW I remembered another couple of archer characters from Champions books. Two feisty females: Scorpio from The Zodiac Conspiracy; and Atalanta from The Olympians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Let's look at this another way. Let's assume Ed Archer has 16 slots in his 60 point Multipower, all of which have 4 charges each. It's OAF, so he pays 30 for the base and 2 per ultra slot, for a total cost of 62. But Ed doesn't like the result. So instead, he takes "OAF Bow" and "-1 variable limitation" on his reserve, and by extension on each slot. The reserve now costs 24 points, as does each slot. Ed has saved 6 points, and he has more options than "4 charges" to place on each slot - and he can change them at will. Ed states that the variable limitation is always "4 charges". Now, Ed's conception is clearly violated, so the GM says "no, quit trying to point shave. Take 4 charges per slot and cough up the extra 6 points." But the next character is Freddy Fireblaster. He also has a 16 slot multipower, and he has Variable Limitation -1 on his multipower, as well as OAF - Customizable Fireblast Rifle. Well, this is in character, so I guess Freddy gets a more versatile power suite for 6 points less than Ed paid. Fair result? I seem to recall an old rule (house or prior edition) which predated variable limitation and allowed a multipower reserve to have a limitation equal to half the differing limits on the slots, such that if each slot had a -1 limitation, but the limitations differed between slots, the reserve culd have a -1/2. Now we have variable limitation in the rules, but it's not applicable to multipower reserves. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 To sum up what has been listed so far, and to get back on topic: Zodiac Conspiracy: Scorpio Olymians: Atalanta, Artemis and Apollo Strike Force: Red Archer European Enemies: Hood, Huntsman Dark Champions: Crossbow Allies: Crossbow Kingdom of Champions: Yeoman Watchers of the Dragon: Yoshi Golden Age Champions: Fletcher Murderer's Row: Origami Champions of the North: Minstrel (although primarily a music-based spellcaster) Digital Hero #17: Scarlet Archer CKC: Warpath & Guan Di Circle and M.E.T.E.: Kor Hunter To Serve and Protect: Huntsman Classic Enemies/Enemies III: Rainbow Archer Any Others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonsong Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Silly question: Why don’t any of the bows have the -1/2 Requires 2 hand limitation? It would seem to me that it would be almost mandatory. I have not seen too many one armed archers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Wow, I think that we're going to end up with more Archers in the CU than in Marvel or DC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Demonsong Silly question: Why don’t any of the bows have the -1/2 Requires 2 hand limitation? It would seem to me that it would be almost mandatory. I have not seen too many one armed archers. Because it is not appropriate for a Champions campeign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Supreme Serpent Wow, I think that we're going to end up with more Archers in the CU than in Marvel or DC... In the current CU we only have 2: Warpath, Scarlet Arrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by JmOz In the current CU we only have 2: Warpath, Scarlet Arrow Yeah, but even if you go back through all the Earth-1, Earth-2 jazz, pretty much every bow user in DC is a version of Green Arrow or Speedy. Only ones I can think of in Marvel off the cuff are Hawkeye, Trick-shot, and Yondu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Supreme Serpent Wow, I think that we're going to end up with more Archers in the CU than in Marvel or DC... Well, most of these appeared for earlier editions of Champions and Dark Champions. From this list only Scarlet Archer and Warpath are part of the official 5E Champions Universe, and IIRC Scarlet Archer is officially retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by JmOz Because it is not appropriate for a Champions campeign? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by JmOz In the current CU we only have 2: Warpath, Scarlet Arrow Isn't it Scarlet Archer? And the books mention a Baltimore archer, Straight Arrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Ill state again is 4c on each slot of a MP considered a lim, on a MP? If not i can 16c for the same-0 lim as 4c or 1c for that matter! ( ie its not considered limitating) Explain please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 As the rules are written: If you want 4 of each arrow you limit the slot (Thus saving you some points). If you want to have only 4 charges on the whole thing, you limit the MP (Thus saving you a good number of points) To answer your question on is it a limitation, it really depends on how many slots we are talking about: It is not that limiting if you have 50 slots with 4 charges on each, it is a limit if you have 2 slots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Im defining my MP to have a limit that all its slots will have, all slots of the MP now HAVE to have this limit. 0 Dcv, -1/2 when using Mp slot...... perfectly legal 8c per Mp slot -1/2 .....................no way. The wording of my argument suggests that it is a legal Lim despite 12 years of hero write ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Let's move this to another thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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