"Fixing" the Speed Chart

[ghost-angel]

Another thought popped into my head, regarding Mentalists.

 

We've got a Mentalist Player (they love the character type...) who routinely buys SPD with "For Mental Attacks Only" Limitation ("My brain is faster than your body").

 

So they have Physical SPD 4, and a Mental SPD 6. Any phase which the MentalSPD and PhysicalSPD overlap they have to choose one or the other to do, but they get extra "Mental Powers Only" phases when that SPD goes and not their Physical SPD.

 

For the purposes of the Deck Method I'd say they pull extra cards for the difference between PhysicalSPD and MentalSPD (two in the above case) but can only apply them to Mental Attacks. sound right?

 

[bTW, does anyone else do this? I've never seen it with any other groups I've played in, though I've never been in a group so in love with Mental Powers.]

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by ghost-angel

[bTW, does anyone else do this? I've never seen it with any other groups I've played in, though I've never been in a group so in love with Mental Powers.]

I played in a group once where another player had this ability. It was a bit wonky.

 

However that same group allowed overlapping Speed -- so you had guys with 8 SPD that went twice on 3/6/9/12 and a guy that had 16 SPD, going 1 thru 12 and twice on 2, 4, 6, 8 , 10, and 12, so narrowing down the wonkyness to any one thing was difficult. I didnt play with that group for long, so thankfully I didnt have a chance to observe the long term affects of such strangeness.

[ghost-angel]

yikes! yeah, I probably wouldn't have played with them long either.

 

Thankfully our GM doesn't allow the overlapping speeds or Mentalists would be way the hell overpowered.

[Richard Logue]

Originally posted by ghost-angel

We've got a Mentalist Player (they love the character type...) who routinely buys SPD with "For Mental Attacks Only" Limitation ("My brain is faster than your body").

 

So they have Physical SPD 4, and a Mental SPD 6. Any phase which the MentalSPD and PhysicalSPD overlap they have to choose one or the other to do, but they get extra "Mental Powers Only" phases when that SPD goes and not their Physical SPD.

 

For the purposes of the Deck Method I'd say they pull extra cards for the difference between PhysicalSPD and MentalSPD (two in the above case) but can only apply them to Mental Attacks. sound right?

 

 

Sure. This particular character would draw 4 cards normally, and then draw two more and keep them aside strictly for mental purposes. Or, up to the GM, draw 6 cards and use them as he wishes with the stipulation that two of them have limited actions associated with them.

[Badger]

Havent read all of it. But I like this idea (though I might alter it for a bit simpler use). But I was wondering (forgive me if I overlooked it). But in the case if 2 players throw down a king for example. But of different suits (hearts, diamonds, etc.) could suits play tie-breaker? And in what order?

[zornwil]

Although I personally don't care for this system due to the increased randomization and the possibility of randomly losing or gaining actions, it seems workable. Are the players accustomed to standard HERO? It'll be especially interesting to hear back if so - do please let us know.

[ghost-angel]

Originally posted by Badger

Havent read all of it. But I like this idea (though I might alter it for a bit simpler use). But I was wondering (forgive me if I overlooked it). But in the case if 2 players throw down a king for example. But of different suits (hearts, diamonds, etc.) could suits play tie-breaker? And in what order?

 

The standard order for suits is Spades, Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds. The suits are derived from Tarot and they do have a specific order of Pentacles, Swords, Wands, Cups in certain instances. You can choose whatever order you'd want however.

 

And, of course, if they draw the same suit of the same card then it all comes down to the All-Mighty-Roll-Off.

[Badger]

Thanks ghost-angel I knew there was some order but couldnt for the life of me remember. I dont play cards all that much.

[Badger]

In he event I do use the system. My simpler version would scrap the jokers, and go with 12 cards (to represent our Segment-12). Plus one card (probably the Queen) as a wildcard which can be played as needed. And would play from lowest to highest with Ace being one, Jack 11, and King 12. And also order of Spade, Heart, Club, Diamond, for tie breaker of course. In the event of same card, same suit, high SPD seems worthy. But the SPD chart definitely aint broken this would just spice things up. It definitely sometimes gets monotonous with ok SPD 4 guys play an action here, etc. But I do thank you Mr. R. Logue for this idea to kick around.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Badger

In he event I do use the system. My simpler version would scrap the jokers, and go with 12 cards (to represent our Segment-12). Plus one card (probably the Queen) as a wildcard which can be played as needed. And would play from lowest to highest with Ace being one, Jack 11, and King 12. And also order of Spade, Heart, Club, Diamond, for tie breaker of course. In the event of same card, same suit, high SPD seems worthy. But the SPD chart definitely aint broken this would just spice things up. It definitely sometimes gets monotonous with ok SPD 4 guys play an action here, etc. But I do thank you Mr. R. Logue for this idea to kick around.

Consider DEX for tie breakers rather than suit, with perhaps suit entering into the picture to break DEX ties?

[BNakagawa]

One concept I had tossed around a while ago:

 

Take a pile of cards with identical backs. Magic commons, used poker cards, whatever.

 

Write each PCs name on a number of cards equal to their speed. Do the same for villains.

 

Shuffle. Deal out actions one at a time and have people act.

 

When the deck is through, everyone gets a post 12.

[Richard Logue]

I use DEX and Lightning Reflexes to break ties first. Then I look at INT if its still tied. After that, suits could be used to break.

 

Breaking ties probably falls under GM preference, but I wouldn't discard DEX and Lightning Reflexes for the randomness of card suit.

[Badger]

Yeah I was thinking about it later in the day during a slow period at work (shh-nobody has to know i was daydreamiong at work;) ) And you're right the DEX or SPD or Lighning Reflex thing would be preferable. The suit thing would make it a bit too random for my taste.

[Vorsch]

Dont you find it strange that 1pt of dex automatically gets to go first, ever time, regardless of situation ( otherwise identical characters ).

 

Does a dex 21 spd 2,character go first before a dex 20 spd 12 character on phase 6 and 12. Combat initiative should go to higest Spd not dex, it does, after all mean your faster.

 

Randomness is good, its what maks KA fun for example.

 

The Spd chart incourages metagaming and should of been dropped, but hero gamers like it. I have seen only one other system with a spd chart and that was phoenic command (based of gun skill no less.). Its also vastly unrealistic, and gives strange damage results for move through/by ( damage based on inches per phase rather than velocity )

 

CV could be Dex/5 + spd, keeps most everone in balance with advantage to speedsters. combat split into rounds, easy for new players to identify with as this is the standard for practically all games.

 

-2 CV for multiple action.

 

Note in above example Spd 12 guy has a 10pt Ocv advantage over spd 2, so hits every time and is unhitable, i think that rflects a fight between quicksilver and NON powered Quicksiver very well. Otherwise he has a 50% , more chances but not better odds to hit.

[Richard Logue]

In Practice

 

Well, I used this Speed system in the game today. Only a couple problems came up.

 

The first one is END expenditure. The only issue with it are the Powers that spend END over a period of time such as in defensive Powers. The problem comes up when a player starts bidding unused actions for bonuses. The argument is that if you've combined actions into panels or splash pages, you have less actual action to expend your END on for Powers like Force Field. To fix this, we just pro-rate the cost over the length of the Turn. I also give the option to turn on or turn off defensive Powers during any "card call." The risk here is not having your defense on when its needed. Pro-rating requires a little mathwork, but nothing heinous.

 

Also, after playing with it, I think its best to limit how many cards may be bid on any single action. A single action card may be bid to create a panel. And no more than two cards may be bid to create the splash page. The problem we had was that too often players would simply splash page their entire hand into a single, brutal attack that would overwhelm the NPC villain as soon as their first card came up. True, they'd have no actions left for the turn, but they'd have put down an opponent or more. With a maximum on card bidding, it doesn't get out of hand. Also, I've reduced the amount of xp bonus for a splash page to .3.

 

With these two fixes in mind, it seems to work fairly well. Combat is quick and speed becomes unpredictable. Has anyone else tried it yet?

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Vorsch

Dont you find it strange that 1pt of dex automatically gets to go first, ever time, regardless of situation ( otherwise identical characters ).

 

Does a dex 21 spd 2,character go first before a dex 20 spd 12 character on phase 6 and 12. Combat initiative should go to higest Spd not dex, it does, after all mean your faster.

 

Randomness is good, its what maks KA fun for example.

 

The Spd chart incourages metagaming and should of been dropped, but hero gamers like it. I have seen only one other system with a spd chart and that was phoenic command (based of gun skill no less.). Its also vastly unrealistic, and gives strange damage results for move through/by ( damage based on inches per phase rather than velocity )

 

CV could be Dex/5 + spd, keeps most everone in balance with advantage to speedsters. combat split into rounds, easy for new players to identify with as this is the standard for practically all games.

 

-2 CV for multiple action.

 

Note in above example Spd 12 guy has a 10pt Ocv advantage over spd 2, so hits every time and is unhitable, i think that rflects a fight between quicksilver and NON powered Quicksiver very well. Otherwise he has a 50% , more chances but not better odds to hit.

 

This issue is exactly why I allow all actions as "simultaneous" in a phase (I put that in quotes because obviously there's some degree of decision-making people can make as I do request what people are doing in DEX order, even though I allow people to also just dictate "I'm going to do this" and we do discuss - once in a while - whether the character realistically would have been able to change their minds). I use DEX more for DEX rolls for heroic and defensive actions happening "just in time" as one is attacked or such.