Entangled - Can't Breathe!

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm sure I recall there's a Force Wall impermeable to air adder somewhere, though I forget where. What about an Entangle which prevents the target from breathing?

 

If you can point me in the right direction, I expect I'll find it eventually.

 

Thanks

Hugh

[Steve Long]

This isn't a rules question, so I've moved it. Offhand I recall no such Adders.

[Derek Hiemforth]

You could use an Uncontrolled, Continuous NND, with the way of shutting off the Uncontrolled being defined as "breaking the Entangle."

[Fitz]

The problem, as I see it, is that this Entangle has to replicate the effects of the rules for holding one's breath. A player would be justified in complaining if they somehow asphyxiated faster when subjected to this attack than they would if they were drowning.

 

There's no specific Breathing power or ability in the Hero System (why would there be, after all?) but I think a linked Suppress on the target's breathing would work well to create the desired effect. That way, the existing rules for holding one's breath could be used, and there need be no disparity of effect.

[ghost-angel]

Originally posted by Fitz

The problem, as I see it, is that this Entangle has to replicate the effects of the rules for holding one's breath. A player would be justified in complaining if they somehow asphyxiated faster when subjected to this attack than they would if they were drowning.

 

There's no specific Breathing power or ability in the Hero System (why would there be, after all?) but I think a linked Suppress on the target's breathing would work well to create the desired effect. That way, the existing rules for holding one's breath could be used, and there need be no disparity of effect.

 

Breathing Power: Life Support - Self Contained Breathing. 10pts.

 

I like the idea of the Entangle NND, Uncontrolled, one of the NND defenses would be to have Self Contained Breathing.

 

You could also use, if allowed by the GM on this one, Change Environment, Usable As Attack (Breathable air around targets head to Unbreathable air around targets head).

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Fitz

The problem, as I see it, is that this Entangle has to replicate the effects of the rules for holding one's breath. A player would be justified in complaining if they somehow asphyxiated faster when subjected to this attack than they would if they were drowning.

There's already precedent for using a "no-breathing" NND to invoke the "drowning" rules (really, the "not breathing" rules). With a Choke Hold, the victim not only takes NND damage, they also can't speak, and can be killed by continued application of the Choke after unconsciousness, using the rules for Holding Breath and Drowning. (H5E, page 264.)

 

I'd say that, logically, any NND whose SFX is that it deprives the target of their ability to breathe, would behave in the same manner as a Choke Hold NND and cause the victim to suffer the effects of Holding Breath and Drowning if it was maintained after unconsciousness.

[Chris Goodwin]

The basic effect of holding your breath is that you don't get to take recoveries, plus you expend a minimum of one END per Phase. So do up a Suppress REC (perhaps make it NND, the defense being Self Contained Breathing), along with perhaps an END Drain (also NND, same defense), Standard Effect, Continuous, worked enough to get to the point where it reduces the target's END by 1 on each of the target's Phases. Per normal rules, the target could reduce his SPD to reduce the effects of the END Drain. Add a Limitation to the Drain that it comes back at the rate of the target's REC (because there really isn't any way to reduce the target's END as if he were using it, no END Damage rule), and another to the effect that it doesn't take effect if the target expends END.

 

On the other hand, this is just replicating the Holding Breath rules; it has nothing to do with making the target unable to breathe (in other words, Holding Breath assumes he has a lungful of oxygen, while a no-breath Power might be an NND). Use your judgement. For an NND attack, unless it was bought Continuous I'd likely rule that it only does its damage on the first Phase it is applied, and that on subsequent Phases it acts as a choking attack rather than doing its NND effect. YMMV.

[Hugh Neilson]

Just to clarify, the player doesn't want an attack that does damage over and above the slow loss of END for the inability to breathe. The classic example (though not an entangle) would be Sue Richards englobing the Hulk (or just his head) and waiting for him to pass out.

 

I think Ghost Angel may have the best construct - a Suppress effect against the target's "Can Breathe in Air" free power. Breathe in a medium is generally 5 points, so that's 1 1/2 dice Suppress at standard effect (8 points), NND (self-contained breathing), so 16 points. Probably reasonable - it's a powerful effect, but it will take a long time to have an overly serious impact on the target.

 

Make it Fully Invisible and we have the Sue Richards version - 24 points.

 

Make it 0 END (+1/2) and Uncontrolled (+1/2) and it's 24 AP. Link it to another larger power - the Entangle - (-1/2) and that makes it 16 points, added to the existing entangle.

 

Any thoughts?

[Foxiekins]

Change Environment: No Breathable Air

 

page 90 of FRED... This might work for you, with some tweaking...

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Foxiekins

Change Environment: No Breathable Air

 

page 90 of FRED... This might work for you, with some tweaking...

 

This could work, although it covers an area. If you are actually using Force Wall, no problem. If it's an Entangle, I suppose the CE could be limited to affect only the target of the Entangle. Using CE, I'd charge for the damaging effect (5 or 10 points maybe).

 

Another possibility is to buy the Ranged Advantage on the Choke Hold Martial Arts Maneuver. But this would do more than the standard drowning effect.