Help: Sniper Syndrome

[Solomon]

Hi all,

 

I have a problem with one of my players in a Champions game. He's apparently affected by the Sniper Syndrome.

 

His character is a moderately munchkiny (for my campaign anyway) power-armored hero. He's bought lots of Ranged Combat levels and Range Penalty levels via foci. He usually begins a battle by moving away from the fracas as fast as possible, despite having the second-best overall defenses after the team brick, and the highest resistant defenses. His original concept included an invisibility device, which I vetoed as unfitting for the concept.

 

Now that he's getting some experience under his belt, he's trying to spend every last point in powers that will remove him even further from the action. Hardly heroic, and very boring. He wants more Penalty levels (he's already the team's best shot). He wanted an invisible, flying microscopic robot follower to scout areas. I had to veto that too because it would completely overshadow another character, the team's skillmonger and stealth expert. He got quite upset and now wants an X-ray device, which would have quite the same effect.

 

Now, my guess is that he's horribly afraid his character might get hurt. Of course this is quite out of place in a Champions game. Besides, his character's as tough as they come in my campaign.

 

I tried having a few quiet words with him but apparently it's not working. Any experience with this kind of problem? Any suggestion?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jhereg]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Depends on if you feel you need to deal with the player, or the character. I would hope just talking to the player would help. Assure him that in-your-face combat is more fun.

 

On the character side: one of my favorites is the good ol’ sniper trap. Throw a well-organized team against them, which can corral the sniper and turn his solitude into their advantage.

 

You could also throw a bigger, better sniper at him, one that’s equally hard to find.

 

Even a good flash can make his RMods useless.

 

Maybe even a super-flyer who can close the distance to the sniper in a phase or two.

[stmichaeldet]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Hmmm. Well, my first thought is, who else tends to be lurking about the fringes of combat? And has powers that armor-guys usually aren't well-defended against? That's right, it's the GM's friend, the ever-helpful EGO-based villain! Set your group up against a group with a good, strong mentalist. Said mentalist spys Sniperboy jetting away from the group (or knows his habits from boning up on his opponents), and sets up an ambush. Might teach 'im about strength in numbers and having friends to watch your back.

 

St. Michael

[Dog Soldier]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I only wish I could have this sort of problem in a game. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. Also, the farther out that he can engage from the larger the area that a search to find him will cover. Be prepared to explain how your counter sniper or mentalist or what-not can find him that fast.

[Hermit]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Hi all,

 

I have a problem with one of my players in a Champions game. He's apparently affected by the Sniper Syndrome.

 

His character is a moderately munchkiny (for my campaign anyway) power-armored hero. He's bought lots of Ranged Combat levels and Range Penalty levels via foci. He usually begins a battle by moving away from the fracas as fast as possible, despite having the second-best overall defenses after the team brick, and the highest resistant defenses. His original concept included an invisibility device, which I vetoed as unfitting for the concept.

 

Now that he's getting some experience under his belt, he's trying to spend every last point in powers that will remove him even further from the action. Hardly heroic, and very boring. He wants more Penalty levels (he's already the team's best shot). He wanted an invisible, flying microscopic robot follower to scout areas. I had to veto that too because it would completely overshadow another character, the team's skillmonger and stealth expert. He got quite upset and now wants an X-ray device, which would have quite the same effect.

 

Now, my guess is that he's horribly afraid his character might get hurt. Of course this is quite out of place in a Champions game. Besides, his character's as tough as they come in my campaign.

 

I tried having a few quiet words with him but apparently it's not working. Any experience with this kind of problem? Any suggestion?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

My advice is to pull him aside some time and explain why you don't think this is in genre... at least not for your game. If he insists, then tell him that since his character is refusing to take similar risks to other characters, and not being as in keeping with the game's theme, he gets less experience points.If you reward others 3, give him 2. That sort of thing.

[Alex Raven]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Personally, I would opt for the Egoist with Mind Scan, Ego Attack, and loads of Mind Control. Mind Control your sniper player into taking out his own hero buddies. It'll put a lot of pressure on him from the other end, his fellow comrades.

 

You could also let the egoist find him and divert the villain team to his area. Take the fight directly to him and remove the element of distance. Do that a couple of times and he may rejoin the fight with the group. Having him singled out by the villain group a couple times and see what happens.

[Lamrok]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I only wish I could have this sort of problem in a game. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. Also' date=' the farther out that he can engage from the larger the area that a search to find him will cover. Be prepared to explain how your counter sniper or mentalist or what-not can find him that fast.[/quote']

 

Unless he has invisible sfx, as soon as he fires, there's a nice bright arrow pointing straight at him. That should make it easy for the mentallist, with invisible sfx to take him apart, if that's the desired result.

 

The local press could show a snippet of him fleeing combat and stop before he engages from a distance, nicknaming him "The Incredible Chicken Man" and discussing in public whether he's the kind of "Hero" they want to defend their city.

 

Really, though, if that's the way he wants to play, and if he has fun doing it, I don't see the problem. He's gimping himself with redundant defenses at the expense of offense and flexibility.

[JLXC]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Have I had to deal with this? Yep. We nicknamed the guy behind his back PussyMan. He ALWAYS does this crap. I want a character who can do damage and never gets hurt, and every one of them is built for that. When the villians get sick of it and jump him he cries foul and bitches and moans to high heaven, EVEN if he doesn't really get hurt. Did yours play a lot of D&D? Mine did and he sees every Body and Stun point as sacred cows never to be touched. He always buys up defense and then runs from every fight, leaving the other players to take the punches for him. Even when they bitched at him about it and I talked to him about it he only responded with "Well you guys should get away like me!" When it was pointed out that if all of them moved in different directions and the villians just ganged up on them one at a time, like happened to him several times, he would say "So?"

 

He never got it and I am glad I don't play with him anymore. Good luck with yours, once they get it in their head that they should never get into actual combat, they are just the superbully "I hit them they don't hit me or I will cry" it's over.

 

YMMV

[Sean]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Along the lines of being alone and vulnerable, if he has any hunted disadvantages he's leaving himself a bit exposed. If he has any DNPC disadvantages he's also a long way off from being able to help them out when they stumble into the field of battle. Unless the team is in radio contact with each other, mind linked etc. then he's also out of range of hearing what's being talked about (unless parabolic hearing) and even then unable to provide any input. If that's the case it'd be interesting to set things up so he sees some approaching menace but is hard pressed (or unable) to arrive in time to give warning to the group.

 

Hmm, another idea is that if this guy never shows his face in a fight, a copy cat villian could really wreck his rep very easily. Just give the villian the same gun and start him off terrorizing people off to one side of where your hero is set up. Your loner will be suspect #1 without an alibi.

[Jhereg]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I think one of the reasons my group doesn’t have this problem is a sniper wouldn’t have any fun. My players are freaks who love getting screwed over. Not only do they enjoy close combat, they laugh louder than ever when they get hurt. There’s no more joyous laughter than one of my players who just got stunned while standing in the middle of 5 big baddies with held actions. Then the players break into the ditty in unison: “Ooooooh. We’re $%*@ed! We’re $%*@ed! We’re so incredibly $%*@ed!â€

 

Even the group Mentalist closes in for some Hand-to-hand.

[Koshka]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I tried having a few quiet words with him but apparently it's not working. Any experience with this kind of problem? Any suggestion?

 

No experience as GM, but I played in a D&D game where one of the other players was the same sort -- the best AC and HP in the game, and spent every fight running to the back of the group. Some of the other players and I all agreed that we were going to (in character) cut him out of any treasure from any fights he didn't take part in.

 

Champions doesn't give out treasure, but do you ever give Contacts/Favors out along with XP? If everyone else in the group gets a Favor from the person they just saved but Mr. Sniper doesn't "because you didn't do anything", it might get the point across.

 

I also like the villains recognizing his pattern of behavior and setting up to zap him. A variant would be the villains grabbing a KOed teammate of his as a hostage/prisoner and being able to get away because Mr. Sniper is too far away to catch up.

[ChuckB]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

The character-type is a little uncharacteristic for a hero (power-armored sniper) , but wouldn't really bother me (although he seems to be a collection of stop-sign and magnifying glass powers).

 

How's the rest of the character ? Does he have a good amount of non-combat skills/perks/talents ?

 

Seems like he's foci-based , so just start a scenario when he's in his civilian ID or otherwise doesn't have easy access to his stuff. I wouldn't do this to often though.

 

One last thing ; if the player is a pain in the ass , get rid of him/her.

[Solomon]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Thanks for the feedback, you helped me put a finger on my issue.

 

JLXC more or less nails it, my problem is with the player and his attitute. "STUN and BODY points as holy cows" describes it, and too much D&D might indeed be the cause.

 

I'd have no problem if this was the appropriate tactic for the kind of combats I run or for the character. But the player consistently fails to practice teamwork. Having demi-brick strength and high mobility is pretty useless when you're usually four phases away from where you could put that mobility and strength to good use. He just isn't there when the team needs quick rescue or aerial transportation.

 

Besides, it's getting infectuous. Weaker characters quickly tire of having to bear the brunt of fighting, and lately it looks like every combat begins with everyone but the brick doing full moves and running for cover. Not fun.

 

I think I'll have another chat with the player. If that doesn't work, I'll try peer pressure. Mentalists are quite out of the picture given the campaign background, but I like the idea of using his isolation against him. I just hope he doesn't feel picked on - that might make things worse.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Lots of good suggestions here, but I'll throw a couple of ideas into the pot.

 

1) Throw an invisible hand to hand combat expert at him.

 

2) Introduce him to the Amazing Reflecto, who has equal skill with Reflected attacks.

 

3) Since the guy seems to be literally getting a rep as a long range sniper-type, I'd have the villains prepared for that. Have them bring smoke bombs he can't see through even with his Enhanced Senses. Take all the fights into close quarters; Range Penalty Levels won't help much when the fight is at 3". Or have the flow of battle take all the combatants rapidly away from him and around corners where he can't see. Ambush him when he's alone; since he always does this it will be easy to predict this strategy. Teleport all the combatants close in far away to finish the fight without him. He can twiddle his thumbs for two hours while the other players act like heroes.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Aren't all power-armored heroes munchkins?

 

I didn't use then much in my campaign, except as NPCs

 

Back when I ran one as a player, I was farily abusive of the system (before I discovered 'rules')

 

The GM dealt with my power armor characer by developing a lot of stuff for background, that had nothing to do with the armor. Just the character going around in their real life, and how it interacted with his heroic one.

~Instead of playing Iron Man blasting Dr. Destroyer

~I played Tony Stark developing ways to disrupt Dr. Destroyer's cash flow

Basicly, try and give the character a life so he is not living inside his armor.

 

If you want a villain/rival for him, have someone make a copy of his armor, and use exactly the same tactics he does. Or have mirrorman, who can reflect back all his attacks...

 

If he insists on having powers so he can do everything, give them all activation or burnout rolls. If they are unreliable, you can at least all have some fun out of it.

[DocMan]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Move the combat to a maze of underground tunnels?

 

LET him move away from the rest of the party when combat begins... where he is ambushed by the SECOND set of villians who have an entangle that is linked to an Armor surpressor.

 

Introduce him to a flying speedster who makes a hobby of peeling Armor Suits. No TIME to move away!

 

Doc

[Prometheus]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

You could also try putting the characters in a situation where they have to close in- a chase or a hostage situation. A villain that turns corners suddenly, changes direction, or runs indoors would confound your sniper. If the villains take hostages, the sniper may decide that setting up across the street and waiting for a peach shot is a good idea, but what happens if the bad guys are smart enough to draw the blinds?

 

Move your battles to a more restricted area. A sniper isn't going to have alot of places to run and hide in a cramped and twisting space like a sewer. A game of cat and mouse in a crate filled warehouse would be good, or you could just have a fight at night. These are also good places to amush the sniper and demonstrate how runnning off alone isn't always a good idea.

 

Maybe have the team save a collapsing building or stop a runaway train. If the team brick can't outrace the train, the sniper will have to get more directly involved- blowing the engine off the track is a Bad Idea.

 

With some luck the player will slowly realize that there are other options in the middle of action and that running away to snipe isn't always the best solution.

[Blue]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

It's pretty bad anytime you have to modify an adventure to deal with a specific PC.

 

Method #1: SHAME. Newsbroadcasters, bystanders, etc, should not treat him kindly in the "post fight analysis".

 

Reporter: "What did you think of the heroes?"

Bystander: "They were cool, except for that guy that was hiding while his friends were getting beat up."

Reporter: "And there you have it, folks. A team of valiant heroes and one *ahem*...cautious one defeat a bitter enemy. Back to you in the studio."

 

Method #2: THE LURKER. An invisible enemy lurking away from the scene can be trouble. Suddenly sniper guy has someone on his back.

 

Method #3: MY GUN IS BIGGER. Grenade launchers. Rocket Launchers. Anything that eliminates cover. Your foe doesn't have to be as accurate as you if he can hit everything in your area.

 

Method #4: TOO MUCH COVER. There's smoke, walls, darkness, etc. obscuring line of sight. Gotta move in, like the rest of the team.

[Vondy]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Try a few of the following:

 

1) a high speed combat that moves through those winding and narrow european alleys - force him to follow the combat - and make sure there's enough twists and turns that he has to follow it fairly closely.

 

2) arrange for some combats to be inside where there aren't huge, open fields available.

 

3) put bystanders and obstacles into the combat. innocents running around flailing their arms, or garbage and semi trucks that break down or get disabled, in his line of fire will make the greater distance... problematic.

 

4) have the villians react the way any one else would when there's a sniper. Have them take cover or move the fight indoors (ugh! now he has to go up to the line of scrimage)

 

5) can be mixed with four - put an artillery piece on the field - someone with a big energy blast and lots of levels like he has. Oculon is scary these days.

 

And if the villians know his tactics...

 

have the artillery piece concealed in a position of cover taking full advantage of the suprise rules to blast him with.

 

I suspect - once the player realized his tactics are creating trouble for him he'll start looking for new tactics.

[Emerald Mask]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I have had this problems gming in games before the worst being a character I dubbed Mind Guy. He had Mind scan and x-ray vision and a mental blast. At the time I did not forsee the problems- until he started setting 2 blocks away from the action and sniping from inside resteraunts etc. Eventually he spawned his own nemisi including a mentalist with the same powers only more points plus an invisible to mind powers and sight semi-brick semi- martail artist. He hated when these caharacters showed up but their frequency of apperance was tied to his actions. When he stayed with the group they rarely bothered him. I did not do this to punish the pc but to stop a game disruption. The plyer really just wanted to take evey body out in one shot and not be intrested in the game just the fight.

[lemming]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I have had this problems gming in games before the worst being a character I dubbed Mind Guy. He had Mind scan and x-ray vision and a mental blast.

Heh. Chromatic had a similar character, but he made it just to bug the GM into allowing his old character back. it worked.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

nuke him frim orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

 

 

More seriously... our group mentalist does this kind of thing - sits in the coffee shop on the other side of town and uses Mind Link with powers usable through the mind link on the enemy. No danger to him. yeesh. Let me know if any of the suggested tactics work at all so I can give them to our GM to get our own Sniper Type into the fray.

 

I liked one of the first suggestions about adding a better counter-sniper.. give them full invisibility and an Inivisible Power Effects Naked Modifier for firearms .. then have the uber-sniper hunt him down.

[Vondy]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

nuke him frim orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

 

 

More seriously... our group mentalist does this kind of thing - sits in the coffee shop on the other side of town and uses Mind Link with powers usable through the mind link on the enemy. No danger to him. yeesh. Let me know if any of the suggested tactics work at all so I can give them to our GM to get our own Sniper Type into the fray.

 

I liked one of the first suggestions about adding a better counter-sniper.. give them full invisibility and an Inivisible Power Effects Naked Modifier for firearms .. then have the uber-sniper hunt him down.

 

The mentalist in my game does this, but the psychic bond they generally use is purchased with feedback, and they can be flashed through the clairvoyance power that allows them to use the other characters senses (and the mentalist takes X2 damage from sonic attacks).

[Half Baked]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

I'd steer away from specifically building villains to defeat the sniper and his modus operandi. Players tend to feel victimised when that happens. I'd try multiple strategies with the player:

 

1. Have a quiet chat about what you expect from characters in your game. Also point out how the villains might use such an obvious MO against his character (see below).

 

2. Introduce a battle in an enviroment where the character cannot just move, hide and snipe. The interior of a building or a cave, or even an items they have to grab. the fight should be in the characters' favour and be entertaining. Use villains who the players will enjoying beating up on. Bulldozer would be a personal favourite. Run the fight as exciting as you can and let the player enjoy winning a fight close in. It might open their eyes to how much fun it can be.

 

3. Vilains should start taking advantage of his MO. The first attack might be a feint, while the stronger team waits to locate and beat up on the character. Being isolated from his teammates should make that easy. Allow the other characters to easily win their fight, but be too far away to help our sniper. Have supervillain teams always leave a team member or two spare to search and destroy.

 

4. Good idea about media coverage being unfavourable. Make sure it is not just superfical, but effects how scenes turn out. FOr example, the child he screams out to all and sunder, "There's Sniperboy. That's him, behimd that hedge." The enemy begin to train their weapons on aforementioned hedge.

 

5. I like the lower Experience Point rewards idea too. Make sure you explain before hand that it will start to happen and the reasons why.

 

6. His MO might start attracting rivals who work in the same manner. Laser or Mechanon might start hunting him to prove who is the best sniper.

 

7. Another strategy is just to encourage the player to take powers that can be used by a sniper, but are more useful. A blast with Double Knockback that he might use to knock an opponent down in front of the brick and provide a tactical advantage. An entangle could be used in the same way.

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: Help: Sniper Syndrome

 

Here's an idea I've been thinking about which will work in this case and in others.

After every combat, have the -players- vote on which of their characters had the coolest move. Then give that character an extra character point or some other freebie.

The players will end up competing with one another for the recognition and prize. That will get them into the four-color atmosphere.