Need Help With Teleport Power

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Like Hawksmoor, I'm a big fan of trying to apply the rules as written. Sarcasm is just one more service we provide.

 

And I can tell you that, with the SFX you described, the answers I gave you are exactly whatI would give any player in my game - you don't need a 61 point power to get a 1 point benefit.

 

And I believe I said as much also to Dust Raven in a previous post. However, since this is and exception to that, why is it so hard for you help me nail down the proper Advantages/Limitations, even if it is too expensive for what it delivers.

 

I'm not asking anyone to change thier campaigns or to even use this in thier own campaign. Just needed help getting the Advantages/Limitations right.

 

Sorry to have offended you. Not intentional, really. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

You've yet to give me a reference from the 5th Edition or the FAQs that say that the GM can not use the Optional Money system in a Superheroic campaign.

 

Right, right- there's no rule against that. Millionaire superheroes are quite common, in fact.

 

I think what people were trying to get at is that all objects, no matter, how mundane, even if bought with money, have stats, and therefore points. Even if you bought your car with money, I should hope it has a defined BODY, DEF, DEX, and Movement. Even if it's duct tape, I hope it has a measurable STR (for holding stuff together), not that it matters unless you have a normal-to-weak character trying to perform a STR vs. STR on it; or a measurable BODY and DEF to act as an entangle should you tie somebody up with it. These things you don't have to pay points for unless they become like a power that is used regularly (I always have my duct tape of justice!).

 

The fact remains that if you were to Summon them, they would have an active point value from those stats.

 

Not that it matters, because you're using teleport.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

And I believe I said as much also to Dust Raven in a previous post. However' date=' since this is and exception to that, why is it so hard for you help me nail down the proper Advantages/Limitations, even if it is too expensive for what it delivers.[/quote']

 

Well, there's where the problem lies. Some of us think that, if it's too expensive for what it delivers, you aren't using the "proper" Advantages and Limitations (or even powers).

 

In order to nail it down, we'd need the full particulars.You've hit on that already with your comment on Increased Mass. How far do you need to Teleport? Planetary range has been assumed, but should he be able to Teleport it back if it's on a spacecraft moving at FTL? The further away, the more Megascale you need available. What if it's in another dimension? Does that block the power, or do you need Transdimensional? Can I block your power by hiding behind a Hardened force wall, or does your Teleport need to be armor piercing [did that make it into 5e? I still think in 4e a lot]? How many levels of Hardened would it take to stop it? Maybe you need more than one level of Armor Piercing. Does it cost END? Is it automatic? Persistent. Is it impossible to take the power away? Inherent. And so on. Even if you take Variable Advantage, you need to know the maximum advantage you'll need.

 

And these pretty much all go away if you buy the result instead of the special effect, which you obviously aren't prepared to do.

 

The dichotomous fact that you are horrificaly concerned with getting the power statted out right, but couldn't care less what the points adds to the surreality. If points don't matter, who cares what it costs - just call it an absolute effect.

 

I'm not asking anyone to change thier campaigns or to even use this in thier own campaign. Just needed help getting the Advantages/Limitations right.

 

Where do you get "right" from? There are NO prohibitions in the book. The furthest Steve ever goes, in my experience, is to say "Under the rules as written, no", leaving the "you may want to vary the rules to enable a reasonable effect to be achieved".

 

Sorry to have offended you. Not intentional' date=' really. (8^D)[/quote']

 

I don't offend easily, and you haven't even come close. If you've been offended by any of my comments, I apologize.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Right, right- there's no rule against that. Millionaire superheroes are quite common, in fact.

 

I think what people were trying to get at is that all objects, no matter, how mundane, even if bought with money, have stats, and therefore points. Even if you bought your car with money, I should hope it has a defined BODY, DEF, DEX, and Movement. Even if it's duct tape, I hope it has a measurable STR (for holding stuff together), not that it matters unless you have a normal-to-weak character trying to perform a STR vs. STR on it; or a measurable BODY and DEF to act as an entangle should you tie somebody up with it. These things you don't have to pay points for unless they become like a power that is used regularly (I always have my duct tape of justice!).

 

The fact remains that if you were to Summon them, they would have an active point value from those stats.

 

Not that it matters, because you're using teleport.

 

Exactly! I agree with everything you just said. It's up to the GM to determine if such items are even worth stating out. A millionaire's normal car gets destroyed, the character simply buys an other out of pocket. The new car might have different stats than the previous one, but if it's not making and impact within the campaign as far at the GM is concerned, why bother. (8^D)

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Well' date=' there's where the problem lies. Some of us think that, if it's too expensive for what it delivers, you aren't using the "proper" Advantages and Limitations (or even powers). [/quote']

Whick is why I posted a long ways back that if you not going to help me, why post?

 

You can say, "I don't think you should use that power." Great! Good for you. But then I'd expect you move on, expecially since it appears no one has been able to give me any references to say that Summon is more valid that Teleportation.

 

If you don't think should be a power, that's just fine and dandy. Why continue cluttering up the thread with opinion based stuff that the GM has to decide on anyway? I just don't see the point.

 

In order to nail it down, we'd need the full particulars.You've hit on that already with your comment on Increased Mass. How far do you need to Teleport? Planetary range has been assumed, but should he be able to Teleport it back if it's on a spacecraft moving at FTL? The further away, the more Megascale you need available. What if it's in another dimension? Does that block the power, or do you need Transdimensional? Can I block your power by hiding behind a Hardened force wall, or does your Teleport need to be armor piercing [did that make it into 5e? I still think in 4e a lot]? How many levels of Hardened would it take to stop it? Maybe you need more than one level of Armor Piercing. Does it cost END? Is it automatic? Persistent. Is it impossible to take the power away? Inherent. And so on. Even if you take Variable Advantage, you need to know the maximum advantage you'll need.

 

Okay, I'll go over the Effect once again.

 

Character has an affinity with a specific object. This has allowed him the power to be able to Teleport (SFX) this item to his current location. The item can be anywhere on the planet and he'll still be able to bring it to his location (barring other powers preventing it). This object will be an ordinary everyday object. The object's attributes are of no consequence since the GM will control the usefulness of this object. The object itself can be used by anyone and it's uses could change over time but not beyond it's original conception. Again, this is being monitored by the GM.

 

That's it, that's all this character can do with this power. Bring this object (of a certain mass) to him. If for some reason the mass of this object increases, he may lose the ability to Teleport it. Highly doubtful.

 

Not sure how many ways or times I have to explain the effect for it to make sense. Maybe I just don't know how to explain it.

 

The dichotomous fact that you are horrificaly concerned with getting the power statted out right, but couldn't care less what the points adds to the surreality. If points don't matter, who cares what it costs - just call it an absolute effect.

Nice word usage (dichotomous).

Again, this is probably because I didn't explain things well enough. I said AP Caps aren't being used here. Sure there are certain RP concerns, but those are just guidelines. If the GM likes the concept/power and it isn't unbalancing, he'll give those points you need for that concept/power.

 

However, one thing though, the is not an "Absolute Effect", since the Teleportation (Power) itself has built in restrictions, such as Blind Teleport. This character will also have to deal with those consequences since he might not have room for the object in question. Dependiing on what it is.

 

Where do you get "right" from? There are NO prohibitions in the book. The furthest Steve ever goes, in my experience, is to say "Under the rules as written, no", leaving the "you may want to vary the rules to enable a reasonable effect to be achieved".

Exactly! And that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to build this power based on, "The Rules As Written". There are many good reasons for trying to do this even if the campaign has modified the rules, but that's a whole other discussion.

 

I don't offend easily, and you haven't even come close. If you've been offended by any of my comments, I apologize.

That's good to hear. I'm willing to continue discussing (sarcasm aside) as long as you want.

 

Sometimes people use sarcasm to try to get under the skin of people. I find it amusing since such tactics rarely work on me. (8^D)

 

Perhaps I'll come back at some point and detail out the specifics when it no longer matters. Perhaps you might find that my choices were valid for what I was trying to do after all. (8^D)

[TaxiMan]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Don't forget the "no velocity" adder, if that fits your concept. If the 10-ton mundane object (and yes, I have always understood that it was only one object, chosen from birth, etc.) is on a ship or rail car, the velocity normally comes with it when you teleport it. The really hard-core GMs might even make the velocities on different parts of the Earth count. For example if it's on the other side of the Earth, the rotational speed of the Earth is in different directions & would result in scary velocities.

 

Of course, maybe that's what you're counting on!

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Don't forget the "no velocity" adder, if that fits your concept. If the 10-ton mundane object (and yes, I have always understood that it was only one object, chosen from birth, etc.) is on a ship or rail car, the velocity normally comes with it when you teleport it. The really hard-core GMs might even make the velocities on different parts of the Earth count. For example if it's on the other side of the Earth, the rotational speed of the Earth is in different directions & would result in scary velocities.

 

Of course, maybe that's what you're counting on!

Thought about that, but decided it against it. Makes for more interesting possibilities. (8^D)

 

GM doesn't require that adder for potential differenced based on Longitude/Latitude/Altitude differences. If it was a sci-fi genre, probably.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Don't forget the "no velocity" adder' date=' if that fits your concept. If the 10-ton mundane object (and yes, I have always understood that it was only one object, chosen from birth, etc.) is on a ship or rail car, the velocity normally comes with it when you teleport it. [/quote']

 

Good point - especially if it teleports to your hand and was falling at 30" velocity before "yes, it's here - but Teddy's arm rips off as it teleports into your hand. [hmmm...hope it's not your lucky thumbtack!]

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

You are right, and Hugh's and Foxiekins, and a couple of others that escape me since I only want one window up. All of our help is unwanted.

 

Hawksmoor

You are the only one being offensive and counterproductive, Hawksmoor. By definition such activity is not help so it should be obvious it's not wanted. No one else in this thread, even the confused and disoriented, has tried to smear a fellow poster for asking a question.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Right, right- there's no rule against that. Millionaire superheroes are quite common, in fact.

 

I think what people were trying to get at is that all objects, no matter, how mundane, even if bought with money, have stats, and therefore points.

Absolutely not true. Even Steve would say so. What are the stats for my boxer shorts? Images with a Focus? I suppose my library card is a Perk. But do I have to pay for my ID Card or is the lack of one a Disad; or should I just buy it as a 1 pip HKA? Not everything is quantifiable.

 

I agree that this doesn't have to be bought as Teleport, but chances are Summon is completely out of the question. If it was something automatous, or would have it's own character sheet (like a vehicle), then maybe. But buying a Summon to bring you your "lucky shoe" would be a bit riduculous.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

The object's attributes are of no consequence since the GM will control the usefulness of this object. The object itself can be used by anyone and it's uses could change over time but not beyond it's original conception. Again' date=' this is being monitored by the GM.[/quote']

Now don't think I'm turning against you here, but I feel this is the part people are having a problem with. Based solely upon this statement, this "power" cost's nothing and will be handled by the GM. It will just happen, needs no write-up and the GM will say what happens.

 

However, if it needs a write-up, then so does the object. Even if that write-up is to say "normal teddy bear: 0 points" it needs to be there for any work to be done. It gets trickier if the object actually has a point value, even if equipment if free (only costs money) in the game.

 

There are ways around this, but they will only apply for some cases, or could simply be a waste of points. And I know you've said that the points don't matter, but if they really don't, then neither does the write-up.

 

 

All that aside, it's obvious you cannot reveal any more details about the character or his power on a public forum. I've sent you an email, and suggest anyone willing to continue helping do the same, as Schir could probably talk more openly about it that way.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Now don't think I'm turning against you here, but I feel this is the part people are having a problem with. Based solely upon this statement, this "power" cost's nothing and will be handled by the GM. It will just happen, needs no write-up and the GM will say what happens.

 

However, if it needs a write-up, then so does the object. Even if that write-up is to say "normal teddy bear: 0 points" it needs to be there for any work to be done. It gets trickier if the object actually has a point value, even if equipment if free (only costs money) in the game.

 

There are ways around this, but they will only apply for some cases, or could simply be a waste of points. And I know you've said that the points don't matter, but if they really don't, then neither does the write-up.

 

 

All that aside, it's obvious you cannot reveal any more details about the character or his power on a public forum. I've sent you an email, and suggest anyone willing to continue helping do the same, as Schir could probably talk more openly about it that way.

I understand completely where you are coming from Dust Raven. We may not agree on some of these minor issues, but then again, we don't have to. (8^D)

 

I'll give your words serious thought.

[KA.]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Chris,

 

Even though I know that the object itself is not material to the question at hand, you are welcome to send me an email too if you have some details that you would rather not post.

As it stands, the most recent write-up:

 

Teleportation:

 

 

6" (12 Points)

1 Fixed Location (1 Point)

Increased Mass x32 (25 Points)

 

Useable As Attack (+1)

Megascale [10000 Km] (+1 1/4)

Scale Down Megascale [1 Km] (+1/4)

 

Can Only Teleport To Fixed Locations (-1)

 

 

Summary:

Teleportation of one unique object to current location.

Character can teleport object up to the size of a large semi truck and trailer.

Character can not teleport himself to object. See UAA advantage.

Teleportation takes a full phase since it is Non-combat Only teleport. See Megascale Advantage.

Fixed location allows object to be teleported from anywhere on planet. [1 Km - 60,000 Km].

Character is unable to teleport object within 1 Km. Has to walk. (8^D)

 

Total Cost: 61 Points

 

looks fine to me.

 

KA.

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Wouldn't the megascale advantages mean that he can't teleport the object within 10,000 km, since that is the distance of 1"?

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Wouldn't the megascale advantages mean that he can't teleport the object within 10' date='000 km, since that is the distance of 1"?[/quote']

Notice the Scale Down Megascale advantage. You can find this in the FAQs document. It allows the range for megascale to go from 1 Km to Maximum of the power.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

My current thoughts are to buy this ability, not through the character, but through the object itself. Specificaly as a Computer.

 

Basically, since a Computer is just a game construct to represent something that can act on its own under instruction, it doesn't have to be an actual physical, electrical device. It could simply be something that houses an objects ability to teleport to his owner. The Computer need to be special, only have a Multipower with normal and MegaScaled Teleport a Program to operate it and Mind Like/Bond with the character to activate it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Chris,

 

Even though I know that the object itself is not material to the question at hand, you are welcome to send me an email too if you have some details that you would rather not post.

As it stands, the most recent write-up:

 

Teleportation:

 

 

6" (12 Points)

1 Fixed Location (1 Point)

Increased Mass x32 (25 Points)

 

Useable As Attack (+1)

Megascale [10000 Km] (+1 1/4)

Scale Down Megascale [1 Km] (+1/4)

 

Can Only Teleport To Fixed Locations (-1)

 

 

Summary:

Teleportation of one unique object to current location.

Character can teleport object up to the size of a large semi truck and trailer.

Character can not teleport himself to object. See UAA advantage.

Teleportation takes a full phase since it is Non-combat Only teleport. See Megascale Advantage.

Fixed location allows object to be teleported from anywhere on planet. [1 Km - 60,000 Km].

Character is unable to teleport object within 1 Km. Has to walk. (8^D)

 

Total Cost: 61 Points

 

looks fine to me.

 

KA.

 

Hmmm...as a Multipower, you could have this as one slot (133 point MP base), and a second slot with 5" TP, 1 fixed slot, x32 mass (36 points base), 128x NCM (+30 points for 6 extra doublings; the first is automatic) which totals 640" = 1.28 km; 66 points. That gets rid of your "walk a km" problem. Now, that costs 133 base, + 13 for slot 1 and 7 for slot 2, all divided by 2 for fixed locations = [66 + 6 + 3 =] 75 points.

 

But you may want to consider wherther you want to pay 13 END to exercise slot #1. 0 END wouldn't add that much to the cost (and the increased mass coming down would help a lot).

 

NB: It's still WRONG building it this way, but the exercise is interesting.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

My current thoughts are to buy this ability, not through the character, but through the object itself. Specificaly as a Computer.

 

Basically, since a Computer is just a game construct to represent something that can act on its own under instruction, it doesn't have to be an actual physical, electrical device. It could simply be something that houses an objects ability to teleport to his owner. The Computer need to be special, only have a Multipower with normal and MegaScaled Teleport a Program to operate it and Mind Like/Bond with the character to activate it.

You've made realize a possiblity that I wasn't aware of. I need to check with Steve Long on the validity of the interpretation though.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

You've made realize a possiblity that I wasn't aware of. I need to check with Steve Long on the validity of the interpretation though.

He'll just say "it's up to the GM" or something like that, but might ellaborate.

 

In any case, this is exactly what the Computer write-up is for. So something can be done seperate from the character, but still allowing the character to still be in control by giving instruction.

 

My basic logic is this: If the character as Teleport UAA, he'll still need to target it. This will involve buying some sort of Sense, as well as buying up the Range on the Teleport UAA. Even when you put the Limitations on it, you can't avoid paying for stuff you don't need, or are just there to fill in a gap. Can the character just use the Sense to locate the object without teleporting it? It doesn't sound like it based on you description of the power.

 

Using a Computer covers this. It's the object that does the teleporting, and it always goes to the same place (the character, assuming there's room). You just need something there to turn on the Teleport Power (a Computer).

[KA.]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

He'll just say "it's up to the GM" or something like that, but might ellaborate.

 

In any case, this is exactly what the Computer write-up is for. So something can be done seperate from the character, but still allowing the character to still be in control by giving instruction.

 

My basic logic is this: If the character as Teleport UAA, he'll still need to target it. This will involve buying some sort of Sense, as well as buying up the Range on the Teleport UAA. Even when you put the Limitations on it, you can't avoid paying for stuff you don't need, or are just there to fill in a gap. Can the character just use the Sense to locate the object without teleporting it? It doesn't sound like it based on you description of the power.

 

Using a Computer covers this. It's the object that does the teleporting, and it always goes to the same place (the character, assuming there's room). You just need something there to turn on the Teleport Power (a Computer).

 

Great Idea!

 

The SFX of the "Computer" could be:

An enchantment that causes the object to come when summoned.

A "genie" that brings it on a silver platter. (Think Johnny Thunder)

Super advanced technology that breaks the object down into atoms and re-assembles them near the character.

 

Any of which can be built using the "computer" construct.

 

After all, what is a computer, but a mechanism that follows a set of instructions. Based on the very wide range of things that could be considered a "mechanism" in Hero, this should work.

 

It sounds good to me, I think this may be the way to go.

 

KA.

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Well, based on the asnwers I got from Steve, using Teleportation UAA in the manner I thought would work turned out be an invalid construct via the rules.

 

So, looks like Dust Raven's idea will be the way to go with this.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

You've got me thinking, Chris... (shame on you! )

 

I was thinking of this ability of yours and was wondering how it could be modified to affect several items, or even any item. It likely won't be the same as your "object bonding teleport" but the mechanics might be similar.

 

I'm thinking of a kinda "bring" spell, that effectively teleports an object (or person) the character has previously prepared. It looks like I'm gonna half to ask Steve my own question about portable computers...

[Foxiekins]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Actually, the response you got from Steve is why I suggested TWO fixed locations...

 

You asked if Teleport could be used to teleport from a single fixed location, and Steve said "no"... But if you declare *yourself* a fixed location, then when you teleport the object to you, you are teleporting it *to* a fixed location, which is perfectly legal...

 

Having the object be a fixed location is to allow you to use the power on it, without having to perceive it with a Targeting Sense... This requires TWO fixed locations...

 

It also means you don't have to variable-scale the Megascale either... And my suggestion for the Limitation "Only between Fixed Locations", which is likely a better name for it than the one I used, is to nail down that you can only teleport the Chosen Object to you, period, because without it you could use the power to teleport *any* object in sight to you...

 

All you really need is Teleport with enough reach, and TWO Fixed Locations, one the Chosen Object, and the other Location being You...

[schir1964]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

Hmmm.... interesting... have to think on that.

[Foxiekins]

Re: Need Help With Teleport Power

 

But also remember that Summon is specifically for bringing things to you, regardless of where they are, which makes it potentially a more valid power for the effect...

 

It's also cheaper if the thing you're summoning has a point cost of less than 18 points... But cheaper is the method to go, if the cheaper method is also the more valid one... The rules say to go with the more expensive method only if the two are equally valid...