Super Metals and Alloys

[Nightmask]

Vibranium, Adamantium, Osium, Kyptonite... anyone know the DEF & BODY of these or any other Superheroic matertials?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Vibranium' date=' Adamantium, Osium, Kyptonite... anyone know the DEF & BODY of these or any other Superheroic matertials?[/quote']

 

Take your strongest PC's strongest attack, push and haymaker it, max out the BODY, and add 2 DEF

 

I use Balxittium, or Balxite in it's "crude" form, as the toughest material in the universe. Pure Balxittium is utterly unaffected by anything, and must be found in the form required("Look, a balxittium shield!" "Where?" "why, right next to that giant starship-shaped piece!")

[austenandrews]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Apparently Adamantium, being indestructable, has infinite DEF. Though you can argue that while it's never damaged, STUN can get through (Ultron gets rattled sometimes) so maybe the infinite DEF is just against BODY damage.

 

The Adamantium/vibranium alloy, on ther other hand, seemingly has infinite DEF against BODY and STUN, as well as infinite Knockback Resistance.

 

Is Kryptonite any stronger than a common stone like granite? I never had the impression it was, though I've never read many Superman comics.

 

-AA

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

There are iirc some things that are actually more durable than adamantium. I seem to recall that Cap's shield was made in a lab accident that made it harder than adamantium (in fact, I read somewhere that adamantium was created when some engineers tried to reverse engineer the metal in Cap's shield). Uru, as I recall, is also suppossed to be more durable.

So, unless you want to give these items a durability of infinity + 1, adamantium -can't- have infinite durability.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Adamantium is virtually unbreakable, but the Defense it gives to someone using it for protection is another matter - it's not necessarily perfect at preventing the transmission of impact damage and the like, as a number of comic precedents demonstrate. I'd treat any defensive artifact made of adamantium as an Unbreakable Focus, but set the actual Defense it grants to a character as desired. OTOH a solid wall or shell of adamantium would simply be unbreachable by any force a character is likely to wield.

 

Vibranium absorbs energy, either electromagnetic or any physical impact - good justification for Damage Reduction. You might even build a vibranium artifact with Absorption to its own Defense, since vibranium stores the energy in its own molecular bonds, presumably making them stronger.

[Whitewings]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

The toughest substance in the Marvel Universe, so far as I know, is Captain America's shield, made of a unique alloy of true adamantium and Wakandan vibranium. There are tougher things, but none of them are entirely material objects. Only the power of the Beyonder ever broke it, and only that same power could restore it. Now, that being said, I'd give true adamantium a DEF slightly higher than the absolute upper limit of BODY that can be done in your campaign world; secondary adamantium would have a DEF a point or two below that limit

 

Kryptonite isn't particularly "super," it's just a mineral. It can be worked, shaped, refined, melted down, and so forth by conventional methods.

 

Osmium is a real substance; to determine its game stats, look up its real world properties, relate them to steel, and go from there. It's the densest substance that exists outside of ultrabaric environments.

[austenandrews]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

I think the Molecule Man dissolved Cap's shield once.

 

-AA

[Vorsch]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Well he was part beyonder.

 

No Super should have the raw power to break any of these things. In X2 magneto hints that he can break adamantium, and Thor once summoned enough magnetic power from a worlds core in his hammer to strike a celestial with which he said would destroy his hammer if contained to long , that makes the attack REALY big and used by a pc.

[Stormraven]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

FWIW, Thor once cracked a large quantity of Adamantium. It was actually in a Dr. Strange, or a Hulk (I don't recall which, but probably the Dr. Strange) when Hulk had gone fully bestial, with no trace of Banner. Thor knocked him into an adamantium statue (of the Hulk, ironically enough) and the statue received several cracks.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

The toughest substance in the Marvel Universe, so far as I know, is Captain America's shield, made of a unique alloy of true adamantium and Wakandan vibranium. There are tougher things, but none of them are entirely material objects. Only the power of the Beyonder ever broke it, and only that same power could restore it. Now, that being said, I'd give true adamantium a DEF slightly higher than the absolute upper limit of BODY that can be done in your campaign world; secondary adamantium would have a DEF a point or two below that limit

 

Actually, there is no Adamantium in Cap's shield. Adamantium was an attempt to duplicate the alloy that is Cap's Shield.

 

 

Oh, and the Odin-power (wielded by Thor) cracked it

[Blue Jogger]

Kypronian metal (Re: Super Metals and Alloys)

 

Kryptonian metal (not to be confused with Kryptonite) was as strong a metal as Superman was super. I believe it's strength was due to the fact that it was many times denser than lead (only a Kyptonian could lift it). Of course, that was back in the Silver Age.

 

Green Kryptonite made an incredible power source since it was highly radioactive, but it didn't hurt normal humans because all the radiation passed harmlessly through them, yet it could be blocked by lead. (Confusing isn't it?) This is why Metallo has a huge lump of it where his heart should be.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Promethium and Inertron are the two ultra-tough materials in DC. IIRC, promethium is on a par with so-called secondary adamantium, and inertron may actually be tougher than true adamantium.

[Pegasus]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Since the Beyonder has already been mentioned, I don't feel so bad about bringing this up...

 

In the Secret Wars the Hulk managed to haymaker Ultron and dent him. And this was nowhere near maximum Hulk-power.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Kypronian metal (Re: Super Metals and Alloys)

 

Kryptonian metal (not to be confused with Kryptonite) was as strong a metal as Superman was super. I believe it's strength was due to the fact that it was many times denser than lead (only a Kyptonian could lift it). Of course' date=' that was back in the Silver Age.[/quote']Wasn't everything from Krypton invulnerable under the light of a yellow sun? Suprman's costume was and hence could survive trips thru the heart of he Sun, to the sea bed, etc, unharmed. Even a piece of paper from Krypton (if they had paper) would've been indestructible. I wonder if a Kryptonian bubble would've been unburstable?

[Whitewings]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Promethium and Inertron are the two ultra-tough materials in DC. IIRC' date=' promethium is on a par with so-called secondary adamantium, and inertron may actually be tougher than true adamantium.[/quote']

 

Inertron is an alloy of titanium and five percent dwarf star matter, according to the old LSH sourcebook. A safe that's supposed to be able to hold both Superboy and Mon-El is described as lead-lined and kryptonite-coated, triple steel framed and inertron-sealed. One of the few people who can work the stuff is Grimbor the Chainsman, who used it to restrain Superboy. If it can stand up to Kryptonian strength...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Inertron is an alloy of titanium and five percent dwarf star matter' date=' according to the old LSH sourcebook. A safe that's supposed to be able to hold both Superboy and Mon-El is described as lead-lined and kryptonite-coated, triple steel framed and inertron-sealed. One of the few people who can work the stuff is Grimbor the Chainsman, who used it to restrain Superboy. If it can stand up to Kryptonian strength...[/quote']

The stuff from the Legion sourcebook I'd take with a really big grain of salt, if I were you. It's full of errors, omissions, misconceptions, and stuff they just downright made up that ise found nowhere in Legion canon.

 

It was stated many times in the comics that Inertron is an element, and recall that Element Lad often whipped some up on the spot to either use as a shield/barrier or to trap (encase) someone.

 

There are a few times in the comics where an alloy of inertron is mentioned, usually with titanium as the other chief component. Indeed, the first canonical reference to inertron was as an alloy -- magnanium inertron. (No clue what magnanium is, though, and I can't recall if it was ever mentioned again or not.)

 

Inertron is also the only physical substance that can block Ultra Boy's penetra-vision; other than inertron, the only way to block it is to use a force-field of a certain specific frequency.

 

 

 

And about Kryptonian metals -- yes, everything from Krypton was "super" under a yellow sun, though strangely enough these objects were, by and large, composed of the same elements as are known to Earthly science. Go figure.

 

There were a couple of instances in Legion comics where Superboy came up against a metal he couldn't break because "it must be from another world like Krypton, which means it's as invulnerable as I am." (Once case in particular had a group of ner-do-wells using a huge slab of the stuff to try and flatten him; the slab was "driven" by a clockwork-and-spring arrangement presumably made of the same material.)

 

Things from Krypton being "super" wasn't necessarily confined to just being under a yellow sun, either. Other than the nearly-every-issue-occurance of Superboy being at full power even while in deep interstellar space, once incident in particular springs to mind. A sort of ancient Kryptonian fortress was discovered in a remote location on Earth, and the discoverer found (and put to ill use) a suit of Kryptonian power armor. He even managed to singe Superboy's "invulnerable" costume with the suit's weaponry! At the end of that little escapade Superboy used his heat vision to melt the rock below the fortress until it dropped (still unharmed, of course) into the molten material of the mantle, where he was sure no one else could get at it. A number of Kryptonian hand grenades had been armed by the villain, though, and rather than try to disarm them, he disposed of the half-dozen grenades by throwing them into a dead sun...where the energy of their explosions re-kindled the star! Now, besides the impossibility of rekindling a dead star in the first place, where the heck did the energy come from to make these grenades so "super" that far out in space, away from a yellow sun?

 

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

As a bit of a detour: about a year ago many of us exchanged ideas on super metals and similar substances from our own campaigns here on the boards. Some of you might find interesting and useful concepts there:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2589&highlight=miracle+materials

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Just some thoughts

 

Yes Cap's Sheild is an alloy of unbelievable hardness, It is one of the toughest materials imaginable. Thor's Hammer is Uru stone! that is right stone, enhanced to unbreakability by Odin and the dwarf forgers.

 

Wolverine, Ultron, Bulleye, and a few other individuals (like a version of Doc Ock) have *lesser* Adamantium. Tough but not invulnerable to harm. Really tough people can break it, but only people like the Hulk, Magneto, or Thor.

 

Inertron is not an Element, but Element Lad was not always contrained by only elements, he can transmute anything. Everyone I have ever asked about it has considered Inertron be on par with lesser Adamantium. Mostly because of its relative availablilty in the 30th century.

 

Promethium is an odd bird. It is lots of things including an awesome Tertagen (monster creator/Hero origin source), and a self renewing power source. It can be alloyed with steel to create a substance of amzing hardness, although like lesser Adamantium it can and is broken by the strongest of DCs Heroes.

 

All of this is over course IIRC and can and is often turned over by writers employing literary license.

 

Hawksmoor

[Vorsch]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

A example of literiary licence when applied to "indestructable materials" which i find funny. ( not tecnically a material element, i refer to the Blob MC )

 

New mutants 89, first appearance of Cable, Cable is grabed by blob ( whose Invunerable dont you know ) and then rams the back of his head ito blob mouth causing him to spit teeth and blood. This is a guy who takes hulks best punch with no effect apart from wobbling ( no stun even ).

 

gee cable you must be hard.

[Mentor]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

I think the Molecule Man dissolved Cap's shield once.

 

-AA

Yep. Along with Mjolner, Iron Man's armor and the Surfer's board. (Absorbed them, actually)

 

They got better.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Inertron is not an Element' date=' but Element Lad was not always contrained by only elements, he can transmute anything.[/quote']Element Lad can transmute anything, yes...to destroy it. But he never created complex compounds (i.e. molecular substances).

 

I"m going to have to ask you for a canonical reference that inertron is not an element.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Sorry Anomaly, My comic collection is in storage, as I live in Jordan and the Legion book I own (DC Heroes) does not make a reference to Inertron in such a fashion. However a previous poster did use a formula that I have heard before, and it does make sense. Particularly in that pre Zero Hour Jan Arrah was noted as being less able to transmute things as he grew older. The reason was that he was operating on a less instinctive level and more cerebrally defining the changes he made in an items structure (which made him slower and strangely *less* powerful). And he still often converted items into Inertron.

 

However, since I cannot back it up my assertion that it is not an element, I'll have to side with you, if you can produce proof that it is an element.

 

Hawksmoor

 

PS given the relative availablity of Inertron Ultraboys Pentration Vision is actually MORE limted than Mon-el and Superboys. I just noticed that.

[Xentharin]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

Once upon a time laid down in the middle of my highschool library and took a look at the Marvel Comics Universe "guide comicbooks" I had the first volume so I had like A-C or some such....

 

I read about Adamantium and as I recall there are THREE forms of Adamantium:

 

Proto Adamantium: The only such source of Proto Adamantium was a concave disc given to the Star Spangled Avenger, Captain America. As stated earlier the shield is made from a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium (or so I remember)

 

True Adamantium: is the other good stuff, Wolverine's claws and bones are laced with this stuff. Its damn near unbreakable or so I have been led to belive through years of comic book reading.

 

Secondary Adamantium: This is still good stuff but not quite as good as true or proto admantium....(my lil resource comicbook explained that a combined strike from Thor's Hammer, Herculese, and the Incredible Hulk cracked a dome of secondary Adamantium)

 

I think that any items bought as these should be bought as unbreakable with very high PD ED and usually Hardened once if not twice. I have also begun to think that they get the damage reduction -75% PD/ED to it's own body and of course LOTS of Body.

 

The comic did make mention that Adamantium could some how be cut slowly and painstakingly on the molecular level but that was the only way that they mentioned that it could refashioned after the metal had cooled.

 

If you want some good examples of this stuff though, pick up "Gadgets and Gear" and have a look at the "Questionite Claws" and "Questionite Shield"... I think most folks will be happy with what they find.

 

Thanks,

Xen

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

There is a common belief that Captain America's famous shield is made of a unique "Adamantium/Vibranium" mixed alloy, lending itself to the legendary durability of the shield. It's a belief that has actually found it's way into the comics themselves several times over the years. But is this belief correct? The following information is my attempt to compile some relevant information to explain the correct properties of Cap's shield…at least according to the story itself.

 

Pulling open Captain America Vol.1 #303, the issue wherein Mike Carlin (writer) and Mark Gruenwald (editor) give the first accounting of the unique composition of Cap's shield it clearly states the following, as narrated by Dr. MacLain, the shield's creator:

 

"I had almost forgotten how impervious the shield is! It can withstand every force I've been able to subject it to! I cannot even chip off a particle to examine under the electron microscope...

 

"It was an accident. You see, I was a metallurgist working in a government lab just as America entered World War Two. I was assigned the task of creating a new super-strong metal to build tanks out of. Months went by. They gave me some of this rare metal to work with -- Vibranium...I tried vainly to bond it to this steel alloy I was trying to develop.

 

Then, one night I dozed off waiting for some metal to heat up. When I awoke, I found that I had somehow attained the bonding of the metals I had striven for. Quickly I poured the metal into the disc-shaped mold I used to form its optimum testing shape. I soon learned that I had produced the indestructible metal I was looking for! The only problem was try as I might, I could not duplicate the process and make any more of that metal. It was as if some unknown factor entered the experiment as I slept -- one that left no trace, but made all the difference in the world!

 

Ever since that day, decades ago, I've been trying to recreate that metal. The best I've come up with so far is a substance called Adamantium but even that is no match for whatever the shield is made of!"

 

The government took my disc of mystery metal, painted it, and gave it to their super-soldier Captain America. He's had it ever since..."

 

[Captain America Vol.1 #303 p. 14]

 

The story Kurt Busiek has related in the origin of the common misconception is that editor Mark Gruenwald made a mistake in the 'Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe' and explained the composition of the shield as an "Adamantium/Vibranium" alloy. This was a *mistake* however, and Gruenwald (the editor of the original story) corrected his error accordingly.

 

Here is an excerpt of Busiek's explanation on the subject:

 

"It would be very tricky for the shield to have adamantium in it, since adamantium was _new_ in AVENGERS #66."

 

"Cap's shield has been around since 1941, and when it was introduced, nobody had even heard of vibranium or adamantium. Vibranium wasn't mentioned until 1966, 25 years after the shield was introduced, and adamantium was introduced in 1969. So even if they'd started saying it was adamantium as soon as they'd invented the stuff, that'd still be a long way from "always." However, they didn't do that. The origin of Cap's shield was a mystery until 1985 -- back around the time Roger Stern wrote CAP, there was even a survey taken in the book, asking readers if the shield's origin should ever be revealed. The results of that survey were that it should remain a mystery. Mark Gruenwald being who he was, though, he answered it anyway. However, his first answer turned out to be historically impossible, and he corrected his error very swiftly."

 

"I keep hearing from people about all the many times it's been stated, but when I invite them to cite sources within the comics themselves, they usually can't. You at least can cite vol. 3 #22...but that's an error -- Mark looked it up in the Handbook, read the incorrect entry and went with it, and his editor didn't catch it. I called him up and told him he'd missed both the Handbook correction and the CAP story that establishes the actual origin of the shield, and his official response was "D'ohh!"

 

"Cap's shield is even more indestructible than adamantium, yes. As I noted in another message, it's made of a steel alloy bonded to vibranium in an unknown process. Neither the steel alloy nor the vibranium were indestructible -- the result of bonding them together, though, was. And that's been the story since 1985, when the origin of Cap's shield was told for the first time in a comic book."

 

Avengers Annual 2001 provided additional info. on the shield in accordance with the shield's origin.

 

As Busiek noted, the only connection Cap's shield has to "adamantium," is the fact that adamantium is the unsuccessful result of trying to reproduce Cap's shield made of a "mystery metal."

 

Maybe one day the "Mystery Metal" will get it's due! It's all right there, waiting to be read.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Super Metals and Alloys

 

(The unknown iron-Vibranium alloy of which the shield is composed resembles True Adamantium, although Adamantium itself contains no Vibranium,)

 

Over the following decades MacLain experimented, attempting to duplicate the process that create the shield. Finally, in recent years, he succeeded in developing the process by which the substance known as True Adamantium is created. True Adamantium is nearly as strong as Captain America's shield, and is, for all practical purpose, indestructible.

 

Only a device celled a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium.

 

Adamantium is extraordinarily expensive to produce. Therefore, certain parties who wish to use Adamantium on a large scale have resorted to utilizing a similar but somewhat weaker compound similar to True Adamantium called Secondary Adamantium.

 

This post is copied from Marveldirectory.com

The previous was from a link at Comicboards.com/camb

 

As you can see, there is no proto-adamantium