Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

[Capt Aardvark]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

This has been a fascinating thread, and I thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. I never imagined it would get so many! And now, a very long post commences...

 

My comments, 2 years later:

1) I was frustrated when I composed the original post. Some of you could tell! And, though sarcastic indeed, and prone to exaggerate a bit to make a point, I had what I thought were valid comments. All were true and based on my early experience with the GGU, but I still apologize for any offense taken. I thank the people who felt my comments honestly given (whether or not they agreed with them). No "trolling" was intended.

 

2) I got to play a bit. I was accepted to one campaign, but changes to my character took the essence out of his powers, and I lost heart, and so dropped out. I was accepted to a different campaign, but that one died a quick death due to other players failing to post (and I suspect the GM losing interest because of that). I made it into yet another campaign, picking up an abandoned hero (an excellent way to skip the audit process, nice work if you can get it!), and this one was great. Then players kept dropping by the wayside, and the GM, you guessed it, bagged the campaign. At this point, tantalized by moments of extreme fun, like a lab rat that sometimes gets a treat if it just keeps slapping away at the little lever, I decided to take a more active role.

 

3) I got to GM a bit. I volunteered to run an 'empty' campaign. I had the freedom to do what I would with my little corner of the GGU, thanks to that fella I complained about a couple years ago. I found out that Jack is a feisty fellow, but also fair, creative and a pretty sharp hand as a player. I also was a HUGE fan of his frequent recipe posts! Anyway, I got to do that nifty thing, a post for players. Great fun, and a difficult choice when so many innovative character ideas are competing for your attention.

 

4) I found out, "It ain't that easy." With only a few official auditors, it really does take a while to get people approved. We skirted the issue with a pre-game disclaimer, saying that anything that didn't make it through audit would be retroactively fixed (very comic-book), but then starting play pre-audit. I recommend this for all GMs... start playing immediately, and fix the math later (subject to Worldmaker approval, natcherly).

 

5) The campaign began. We even had a crossover with another GGU campaign! It was nifty.

 

6) Then one of the starting characters failed to respond. At all. I couldn't get the player to participate, no matter how gently and diplomatically I encouraged him. Despite bringing to mind the question, "Then why did you sign up?", I managed to incorporate that hero's inactivity into the storyline... it was an evil clone! The real hero was still on the way, and could burst in at the last minute and help save the day! But he just wouldn't respond. We spent a lot of time trying to get things going, and in retrospect I wouldn't have wasted everyone else's time in that manner. We would have moved on and got to the adventure.

 

7) My campaign folded, too. Pretty soon only a couple players were actively posting, and I don't blame them. The pace was painfully slow. If I were to do it again, I'd have posting guidelines, something like An Actual New Turn Every Week, Where Something Happens. I'd also confer more with experienced pbem gms to figure out how to streamline combat.

 

8) At this point, I gave up. I couldn't see how to get around the features of pbems and keep it fun like a tabletop Champions session. My theory: instead of offering a hero writeup as your 'application' to enter a campaign, you might engage in a two-three week post-a-thon where only the most diligent and persistent get in. Even someone with bad typing would be welcome if they were interested enough to post regularly.

 

9) It was about this time that I started playing City of Heroes a lot. That sucked up all my game time, you bet it did. I'm better now, a bit. (twitches his mouse hand, convulsively presses movement keys...)

 

10) I wish Jack and all GGU players and GMs nothing but success and fun. I wish that my temperment were such that I could still be a participant in this well-thought-out world. Thanks, Jack and everyone, for a great game and some damn fine work. Play on!

 

Patrick Provant, formerly GM of GG5-LA, formerly Gryphon of the Venture Institute, and now Capt. Aardvark, Freedom Server, City of Heroes and DM of a good ol D&D campaign again after many long years.

[Kristopher]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

Hey, Patrick.

 

Things never did work out for Twilight, she made it into a second GG team that almost immediately folded.

[MitchellS]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

It seems from what Jack was saying on the M&M forum that he's thinking of starting up the GG campaigns again using M&M rules. Since he's only got a handful of characters converted so far I think it'll be a while yet.

[Haven Walkur]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

I've played in the GGU a couple of years ago. I didn't like it...and I was (and am) so desperate to game I wasn't disposed to be critical. However, it just wasn't any fun -- at all.

 

Yes, as the Aardvark says, there is a laundry list of house rules involved in the GGU. Some of them seem to reflect the personal preferences and prejudices of Worldmaker, creator of the GGU -- which is only to be expected, but if the bias had been acknowledged up front, I would have built a very different character.

 

My PC example: Apparently Worldmaker doesn't like PC mentalists; however, he doesn't mention this bias in the GGU rules write-up. No, instead, he waited for the player (me, in this case) to submit a mentalist PC for auditing, and then informed me that he (Worldmaker) uses the most restrictive interpretation of the Hero 5th Ed. mentalist rules.

 

By that interpretation, my PC wouldn't work, said he. Worldmaker then proceeded to "gut" my character of her mind-reading powers, in the name of creating a "better fit" with the GGU universe.

 

That annoyed me a great deal. I'd spelled out in my character write-up that my concept for this PC was a young and naive Herald Angel, and her big powers were megascale Flight and lots of Telepathy -- she could carry the Word around the world in a twinkling, and speak and be understood by all the races of man.

 

She's an angel, so she should know the minds and hearts of men, right?

 

Wrong, apparently. Worldmaker favors the strictest reading of the Class of Minds distinction. My PC would only know the minds and hearts of those exact men whose Class of Minds I'd bought.

 

My Herald Angel was barred from reading or communicating mentally with supernatural beings or human/supernatural hybrids (despite being one herself), cyborgs (even if their brains were still organic), aliens or alien/human hybrids, and there was even the chance of some human racial barriers to her Telepathy.

 

But Worldmaker didn't just reject my poor Angel for being a despised mentalist; no, he "improved the fit." After that "pruning", my PC could fly real fast and maybe communicate mentally with the people standing next to her (if they were human, that is). The PC that resulted from that auditing was NOT one I wanted to play.

 

If I had known from the outset about Worldmaker's extreme dislike of PC mentalists, I wouldn't have wasted both our time by building one! And character-building in the Hero System is no small undertaking....

 

So since I'd already gone through all that grief with my PC, I decided to play anyway -- have I mentioned that I was (and am) desperate to game?

 

Half the players didn't post to the game, and the GM might as well have been one of them. He was extremely lackadasical and seemed almost indifferent to the game he was supposed to be running.

 

Periodically, Worldmaker would post nasty, scathing things to people on the GGU site for some offense or the other -- but he never criticised a delinquent GM or non-participating players. No, he seemed to reserve his ire for people who had argued with him...about anything...for any reason. Obviously, he felt that was the more important use of his time and resources.

 

This debacle was my first attempt at playing in the GGU, and in my second week there, I inadvertantly posted a message to the wrong thread; I think it was a message intended for the "Questions List" and I sent it to the "Admin. List." And I heard from Worldmaker.

 

Oh my, did I hear from Worldmaker! He kindly let me know that the seriousness of my transgression was matched only my astonishing stupidity....

 

This is the same person I had e-mailed twice or three times before, asking for help with our increasingly "no-show" GM...but about THAT, Worldmaker had no comment. I never did hear back from him about the GM situation, either.

 

There were eight -- I think it was eight -- of us in that game. Of the seven other players, two were imaginative, creative, eager to participate...and good writers. One (bless his heart) was imaginative, creative, eager to participate...and almost unreadable due to his appalling spelling. The other four players were barely involved; one post in a fortnight, or one in three weeks.

 

And so at last, that GGU on-line game became the first superhero RPG I've ever dropped. About two-thirds of the reason I left was the lack of interest on the parts of many of the players and GMs, and the failure of anyone to call them on it.

 

And the remaining one-third of the reason was Worldmaker himself. I didn't and don't like his arrogance and ego -- and oddly enough, his insecurity.

 

Yes, Jack, we all know you built this site and we're very grateful that you're letting us use it...but do you have to remind us of that by word and deed EVERY TEN MINUTES?

 

Do you really believe that every time someone disagrees with you, it's an attack?

 

Do you honestly think that we won't see how smart you are unless you keep showing us over and over again? Or that we won't know who's in charge unless you demonstrate it to us at every opportunity?

 

If for some reason Worldmaker departs from the GGU, I might try the site again. If he remains...well, that's the third strike against the site, and it's three strikes you're out.

[sinanju]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

My experience was similar in many ways. My first PC ever was drafted into the Anchorage Embassy campaign (back when the GGU was undergoing a major revamping). My initial concept was accepted, then drastically reworked in auditing. But I stuck with it and eventually got to post a few times, but the campaign eventually ground to a halt just as we were getting into the first actual combat.

 

I submitted characters to quite a few campaigns, most of which didn't get accepted. That didn't bother me--that's to be expected when lots of good players are submitting characters for a limited number of slots. It was when I actually got a character accepted that the frustration followed.

 

I got a character accepted, audited and introduced into the South African campaign...which folded after a painfully long and slow introduction.

 

I joined the Golden Gate Guardians campaign...which folded without ever really getting off the ground.

 

I joined the Denver Defenders campaign, but when a long time went by with nothing much happening for my character, I dropped out.

 

On the other hand, I played in a non-GGU campaign in the Chronicles of Champions universe which ran for a while, then slowed to a halt and then ended.

 

A game I'm currently involved in at the Uberworld site came within a hair of being abandoned and while it's technically still breathing, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it folded up in the near future.

 

In fact, I've only been involved in two "long-term" successes. The Empire City game in which I'm playing Hell's Angel, and the Crossing_Lostrp fic/game on Livejournal. Empire City has been going strong for over a year now, and Crossing_Lostrp began last December and is still extremely active.

 

So what have I learned from this? Several things.

 

1. Keeping a PbEM game alive and kicking is hard work, no matter who's running it. Players or GMs who don't post, or post infrequently, can drag down an otherwise entertaining game. Sometimes real life interferes, sometimes they simply lose interest. Either way, it can be a game-killer.

 

2. My personal experience is that flagging play is a vicious cycle. I know that I lose interest when/if a game slows below a certain pace. I find myself having to force myself to participate. On the other hand, when a game is humming along with lots of activity, it keeps me interested.

 

3. The games I've been involved in that have worked fall into two categories:

 

Empire City is a one-on-one game. It's just me and the GM (though he's simultaneously running three other games set in the same campaign city, where the PCs are all members of Club Ronin but all work essentially solo). If one game runs faster or slower than the others, or if a player in one game drops out entirely--as has happened--it doesn't really affect the other games.

 

The Crossing_Lostrp game is more of a freeform collaborative story. No character sheets, no game rules, no die rolls. The GM throws the occasional game event at the PCs, but for the most part the players simply write their PCs' interactions with other characters. Any ideas for conflicts or romantic relationships are worked out "backstage" via email and then played out in the RP community.

 

Both games allow for players who post at different speeds to enjoy the game. Players dropping out don't necessarily throw the game/adventure out of whack for any other players (though one of my PCs in Crossing_Lostrp had the players of her new love interest drop out, so we had to figure out how to handle that).

 

If I were ever to run an online game (which I occasionally think about doing), I'd almost certainly follow one of these models.

[Kristopher]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

I actually got along fairly well with Worldmaker, but it got strange when, as I understand it*, he really nerfed a character submitted for a "Goverment Supers" game and messed with the PCs personality because the PC was named Patriot, and Worldmaker hates the NFL's New England Patriots because of something that happened in a game about 30 years ago -- hates them so much that he "nuked them from orbit" in the GGU setting, killing the entire team and the ownership, IIRC.

 

* This had to be pieced together from conversations alluding to it, as no one who knew would explain what had actually happened.

 

I liked Worldmaker, but at the risk of saying too much publically, he has some issues to work on, the same basic issues that lead to him no longer being on HGDB.

[Capt Aardvark]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

Since Kristopher is still alive (Hi!) I'd just like to add, for all my former players, Thank You! Great ideas, great fun... just wish we could have had uniformly involved gamers. Idea: People who want to post once every two weeks could be paired with each other while people (like us) who enjoy a more active campaign could be cruising along with posts every other day or so. If y'all ever decide to start your own campaigns, look me up. I'm not too persnickety, even as a GM, as long as powers and traits are there to support a good story. I wonder if I could convince Kurt Busiek to allow an Astro City campaign... oooh...

[Starchild]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

After fooling with these people for about 9 months, neither of the two campaigns that I had been accepted into have actually started. Months, literally MONTHS of character audits, lots of house rules that change how most of us design characters and play Champions, and a Master of Ceremonies with a very irritable nature have finally convinced me that I should quietly back away and pretend I don't know about them.

 

How it works: you see what campaigns have openings, submit a character history and write-up (specifics vary), see if you're chosen, and then sit and wait. Eventually they get around to auditing your character, at which point they remove your favorite powers, charge you extra for others due to 'house rules', inform you that you have a different hair color or birthday or DNPC or something, and then remind you to shave off the 38 points they tacked on due to decreasing your OAF to an OIF or something.

 

It's possible that once you get into an active game, it's fun outweighs all the inconveniences. I wouldn't know. Apparently there's a year-long waiting period before you find out. Doesn't SAY there is one....

 

Also, if you are new and accidentally violate some obscure board rule or guideline, you will be publicly humiliated by the boss. Thank goodness it wasn't me; I just watched it happen time after time to others. Wanna see some astonishing flames? Tune in.

 

That being said, they have some fantastic databases of unusual character limitations and psychological disadvantages of great use for players and GMs. Many are things I hadn't heard of or thought of in 20 years of playing Champions, and was just plain tickled about.

 

I just felt that a review was in order, since HERO lists them as a link. Do with it what you will… I'd be very interested in input from GG players who have survived all of this, but not from the Uber-GM. I've heard enough from him.

 

Well, I know that this is an old thread but, if anyone has any doubts about chefjackbutler then they shouldn't. The above poster is exactly right. I was on another game site when this Jack guy popped up and began throwing insults and trying the "public humiliation" thing when I didn't agree with him on everything(He wasn't even playing in this game). When I c/p'd proof of how his claims were wrong and asked him to explain it, he just got even more mad, started foaming at the mouth and avoided the question. He started insulting but, when he got it back he began acting very defensive while still insulting. Typical...

 

From what I know about his RPG worlds they are not bad but, the problem with RPGing is that it attracts too many head cases. Too many players live vicariously through characters that are merely idealized versions of themselves...and too many GMs let their games go to their heads thus becoming megalomaniacs and such. They see themselves as royal peerage who sit on GM thrones from which they pronounce decrees...and this is exactly how Jack Butler came across to me the first time I encountered him. From what I've seen (and I do not claim to have seen all), in his game world there are basically two kinds of people...those who genuflect before him (and even lick his boots in some cases) and those he's either run away from or kicked out of his games because they spoke out against his infantile diaphanous rubbish. He throws puerile tantrums when he doesn't get his way.

 

What I found even more fitting is my hearing how he blamed the failure of one of the restaurants he used to work for in Florida on the owners/management. Apparently-according to JB-they went under because they didn't follow his advice on how to run the establishment. Sure. Of course it couldn't be simply that there is/was a recession going on...or maybe even chefjackbutler's culinary skills are not as great as he'd have us believe. The point here however is that there are a good number of endeavors I can list off that naturally attract A-holes...two of them are GMing and chefs. Jack is both, so his reputation as a truculent little sociopath is of no surprise to me. Running a great game is a lot more than just having a cool website, and knowing the rules and game mechanics very well. Jack apparently has those covered but, not much more. You have to be in it for the fun of the game, and not in it simply to lord over people because it makes you feel important and/or like you've compensated for all of your real life failures...

[Blue]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

Wow, I came in thinking this was a new thread then saw comments I'd made back in '04 on the first page of this thread

 

Never did get around to joining one of these. I think I decided I prefer the devil I know (that is, the players and GM I know).

[Tasha]

Re: Global Guardians - Champs by email (review)

 

Wow, I came in thinking this was a new thread then saw comments I'd made back in '04 on the first page of this thread

 

Never did get around to joining one of these. I think I decided I prefer the devil I know (that is, the players and GM I know).

 

Though Worldmaker could be a bit excitable and I am not sure that I liked him when he posted here. I am unsure about how I feel about 'Necroing a post to slam a guy that can't post in his defense.

 

He did the hero community a great service with the Masterlists of Disads, which I think made up for some of his issues.

 

Now can we just let this old dead thread finally die (Perhaps have a mod lock it?). It really isn't in the spirit of these boards IMHO.

 

Tasha

 

PS sorry about inadvertently bumping this inflamatory thread.