Ethnic stereotyping in heroes and villains

[ProfessorM@ss]

Re: Ethnic stereotyping in heroes and villains

 

Originally posted by Law Dog

So, what goes too far for your campaign and do you conciously censor yourself on matters of race or other social identifiers when designing heroes and villains?

 

I actually consciously think of ways to play with the stereotypes. Our world's main superteam, Ares Watch, is a prime example of this:

 

1) Warcry - Leader of my game universe's premier superteam. She's an Ojibwe (what some of you Yanks call Chippewa) by birth, who is a fast, tough, smart brick. She dresses in cheesed out 'Indian' clothing. She carries a spear. She is alternately loved and hated by Amerindians in our game world.

 

What they don't know is that she's a robot, a person who's mind was transferred into a machine. It's been kept very quiet, but she is, in fact, an android.

 

2) Ego - Mentalist from the same team. A black guy who's powers didn't manifest due to the mutant equivalent of a birth defect. He lived his life, knowing he was a mutant but having no idea what his powers were, until cybernetic technology allowed him to access them. In the meantime, he became a tough street-cop. So, if you can imagine, Shaft meets Professor X.

 

3) Daedalus - Our gameworld's version of Superman. Early on, he was a hero with his partner, the high-flying Icarus. What people didn't know is that they were lovers. Gay lovers, that is...Daedalus faced a massive public backlash when he came out of the closet, including the vicious gay-bashing of the then-retired Icarus.

 

4) Channel - An East Indian superhero, who can absorb and redirect energy. Now, there are other East Indian superheroes these days, but back when I came up with him (circa 1988)? Not many.

 

5) Scrapyard - A woman with the power to telekinetically control metal. Aside from whipping cars at people, deflecting bullets, and pulling down power wires to zap villains, she also walks around in a giant metal body. A very male-looking metal body; people often assume she's a robot.

 

And she's butt ugly. She has a Comeliness of 7. So much for the gorgeous superheroine! Heh.

 

Anyhow, those are some examples of how I've played with things in our setting.

 

--->M@ss

[altamaros]

I don't think that anybody is going to disagree that making a villain called Blood Nazi and making him a sadistic killer is going to offend anybody,

Really ?

I think germans are a little bit tired to be portrayed as nazi villains.

 

How about an openly gay villain that was what is called in the homosexual community a queen?

 

There's already that in Dark champions. Check "Divine" in Underworld Ennemies. (think) is there a nazi gay villain in GURPS I.S.T. ?

 

The line I had to draw in my game was a guy who wanted to play a hero called the Klansman. Unlike the Klansman from Kingdom of Heroes, this guy was a Klansman as in Ku Klux . . .

 

if your player can take distance from his character why not ? but ask to the whole group before if everyone is comfortable with that (personally, i would not).

 

but how comfortably would you be in your game with concepts or names that bordered on what some folks would classify as racist/sexist/homophobic/ect?

 

As Winterhawk and Dcholmes said; it depends much of your group. As a comedian you probably never heard about said :

 

"You can make fun of anything but not with anyone".

 

I'm not really surprised by the "chop chop" thing from Acroyear because i had once a gay player who played a lesbian (X-Men's) Storm-like character and i often noticed that a lot of people from "minorities" liked to have fun of themselves.

 

I currently have a gay muslim player in my team (his character is a three-eyed chinese teke) and i would never dare to introduce him to a "friendly skinhead-aryan brother" due to a "problem" he had some times ago with a bunch of skinheads in his neighborhood.

 

so, see with your group ...

[death tribble]

Well everyone who remained in our group was whitr but we had one black female player. It was fine, no issue ever made.

 

When it came to characters though it was a different matter.

To begin with we had the anti-mutant hostility which was a major part of the campaign always with known mutants in the campaign team. And then having to put up with Genocide and X-Terminate (which is what the non-robot part of Genocide became).

The colour bar was also important to some characters like Ace who was a martial artist. We had some race things thrown in. Some villains were black or Asian.

 

And yes hate-mongering villains like the Klansman. And hate-mongering heroes like Britain's Fist.

 

What irked me was that when I proposed that we go after Genocide, the answer was no from the mutant players. I could never understand the logic of this. But that was the main GM for you. However we got the same answer when we wantd to take the offensive against other crime groups. QED

 

But the team had resident aliens from off planet. The Unicorn who was big and yellow. cf the picture in the Images thread;

The Voidwalker who was bonded with what became his DNPC but was just really a swirling blackness or night sky (depending on how much energy of the Destroyer was present)

and the Angel who wore armour so we couldn't tell.

We had two Puerto Ricans, a Brazilian and one African.

 

And the person who was disliked the most out of the heroes who joined the team aside from the traitor was the one who would not share their feelings. They were afraid to but were given a really bad time for the mutants etc. But that again was the main GM. He played the best mutant Dr Density and the worst Wolfclaw (Wolverine).

 

We only had one Arthurian type, The Shining Knight.

 

Lastly the biggest Campaign villain was black. But bearing in mind that was the Destroyer, a monster (literally) their colour was never really the issue.

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by altamaros

Really ?

I think germans are a little bit tired to be portrayed as nazi villains.

 

 

 

 

And there we run smack dab into one of those little sticking points of A=B, but B not being equal to A.

 

Yes, the Nazi's were German, but the Germans were not all Nazis.

 

The statement actually refers to the point that nobody is going to be surprised to find out a Nazi is a villain.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Originally posted by Law Dog

And there we run smack dab into one of those little sticking points of A=B, but B not being equal to A.

 

Yes, the Nazi's were German, but the Germans were not all Nazis.

 

The statement actually refers to the point that nobody is going to be surprised to find out a Nazi is a villain.

 

 

In my current campaigns, the New Reich, a Nazi organization, is mostly made up of Swiss businessmen, South American descendents of German ex-pats, and the occasional American fascisti. Almost no German nationals involved at all.

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by altamaros

There's already that in Dark champions. Check "Divine" in Underworld Ennemies. (think) is there a nazi gay villain in GURPS I.S.T. ?

Reminds me of the wonderfully named 'Aryan Thrust' - gay nazis from Frank Miller's Give Me Liberty

[TheEmerged]

RE: Black Diamond. Can someone official clarify something for me? I know BD is black in 5th Edition, but I find nothing in Classic Enemies to indicate her race -- and the picture in my opinion certainly doesn't suggest it. When exactly did BD become a victim of the Black [Whatever] issue?

 

RE: Stereotypes. Sometimes, it's just a case of not paying attention. I doubt very seriously that Steve & Darren consciously made sure all of Victory's plot seeds in Champions Universe potrayed her as a victim -- nonetheless, there it is.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Supreme

In general I try to keep things to a minimum, which is to say zero. It can be tough though. Racial stereotypes can be subtle things. They aren't just the characters you see, but the characters you don't see. For example, in comic books I can think of one and only one Asian brick: Sumo from "Stormwatch." Similarly, I have a hard time thinking of any Jewish super-heroes. I know there are a few out there like "Sabra" and whatever alias Kitty Pryde is going by these days. Can anyone think of a Jewish brick?

 

The Golem... but know one remembers him.

The Golem

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by Law Dog And there we run smack dab into one of those little sticking points of A=B, but B not being equal to A.Yes, the Nazi's were German, but the Germans were not all Nazis. The statement actually refers to the point that nobody is going to be surprised to find out a Nazi is a villain.

Sure, what you're saying is "true" and takes into consideration all the rules of logical fallacy and whatnot. But I think it misses the point: that to the extent German people are represented in the comics, in action movies, etc., they're more often Nazi's than good guys by several orders of magnitude.

While it's not surprising that Nazis are evil, non-Nazi Germans are largely unrepresented (although Nightcrawler is a notable exception). And as much as some people want to say "Hey, I'm not claiming that all Germans are evil Nazis" it certainly seems like the there's an implicit statement that "Germans aren't worth acknowledging unless they're evil Nazis".

[Kevin Scrivner]

Rage said:

 

Sampson only showed superstrength once: pulling down the pillars. all the rest of the time he appeared to be just a super MA.

 

---

 

Not so, oh furious one. In addition to literally bringing down the house, Sampson carried off the gates of the city Gath to prevent himself from being trapped inside. He killed a lion with his bare hands. He escaped from various attempts to bind him merely by flexing his muscles; the bindings parted like singed thread.

[Rechan]

It's funny this come up. My superteam is funded by a half-asian businessman (Actually used to be the Co-GM's character infact), and the Party is about to run into a guy with Cybermind's powers, but he's a black teen.

 

Now, not to sound racist and stereotypical, but the current adventure takes place in the Ghetto of Detroit (North Detroit). The Mob discovered this Cybermind, and uses him as a hacker, or else they pop his little sister whom he's supporting. I figured it wouldn't be different For the computer whiz to be black.

 

I'll also add that there are some individuals in the Millenium City history. The White Knight, a KKK advocate who used his powers to cause the riots in the 60s. Mentioned in the Champions book.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Supreme

In general I try to keep things to a minimum, which is to say zero. It can be tough though. Racial stereotypes can be subtle things. They aren't just the characters you see, but the characters you don't see. For example, in comic books I can think of one and only one Asian brick: Sumo from "Stormwatch." Similarly, I have a hard time thinking of any Jewish super-heroes. I know there are a few out there like "Sabra" and whatever alias Kitty Pryde is going by these days. Can anyone think of a Jewish brick?

 

No, but my modern orthodox jewish brick is in charge of America's superhero team - his codename is Anthem.

 

However, here are a few possibilities:

 

Mesada ("fortress") a good brick name with history

Baal Milchamah ("battle master" or "war master")

Mystery Meidl (humor can be good)

Din (judgement, generally stringent in context)

Merkava (chariot, but also the israeli tank)

Shimshon (Sampson - big warrior)

Sheid-Adom (Red Devil or Red Demon)

Magen (shield) - star of david throwing stars? An israeli cap?

Tzevakot (host, as in heavenly host, or military horde)

Uzi

Ha'Sayif (The Sword)

 

The Keruvim (fiery angels) as a team name - has a lot of kabbalistic significance, or Keruv (for a fire guy)

 

And lets not forget the ultimate JEWISH brick - Kal-El. His Hebrew... er, alien... name means all powerful in, yep, Hebrew.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Law Dog

And there we run smack dab into one of those little sticking points of A=B, but B not being equal to A.

 

Yes, the Nazi's were German, but the Germans were not all Nazis.

 

The statement actually refers to the point that nobody is going to be surprised to find out a Nazi is a villain.

 

I got tired of running German villians as Nazis so I brought back a suped up Junker Count from WWI!

 

Hows that for a stereotype?

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner

Rage said:

 

Sampson only showed superstrength once: pulling down the pillars. all the rest of the time he appeared to be just a super MA.

 

---

 

Not so, oh furious one. In addition to literally bringing down the house, Sampson carried off the gates of the city Gath to prevent himself from being trapped inside. He killed a lion with his bare hands. He escaped from various attempts to bind him merely by flexing his muscles; the bindings parted like singed thread.

 

Shhhh... don't tell the born agains about the Midrash.

 

It confuses them.