Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

[GamePhil]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

If you do not think the concept of 'evil races' encourages racist thought because this is just pretend' date=' would it be acceptable to run a Earth setting campaign with the 'evil race' being conspiratorial Jews, Yellow Menace Chinese, or dark jungle-cult Africans? These have all been featured in the adventure entertainment of past eras. If you think it's okay to game evil Migdalars and Orcs but not evil Jews, Chinese or Africans, please explain why.[/quote']

 

Because Jews, Chinese, Africans, and, yes, white people (somewhat more often than people seem to realise portrayed as inherently evil) are human beings. Human beings seem to be capable of free choice. But just because human beings have a certain quality (free will, in this case) does not mean that another creature is going to. The Migdalar could have evolved in such a way as to make "evil" behavior, by human standards, very appropriate for them. For another example, see the Xenovores, who were engineered to be canabilistic, conquering monsters, certainly an "evil" race from the point of view of anyone victimized by them.

 

Moreover, since the Migdalar are a magical race in a magical world, they need to work by the rules as we understand them even less. They can be evil because of some part of their metaphysical make up, or some such.

 

So, no, it is not in any way a racist concept. If you want modern racial concepts in a fantasy game, the appropriate place to have it is among the humans and other free-willed peoples, where it belongs. If you want the Migdalar to be among the free-willed people, great, but I certainly don't see how it makes someone that wants an evil people "racist".

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Okay, reality check time!

 

 

Guys, when talking about whether migdilar being inherently evil equals racism, or any other fantasy race for that matter, could we all please keep in mind that the migdilar are fictional?

 

They don't exist.

 

They are phantasms conjured up by Steve Long for our enjoyment.

 

And because they do not exist, we can hardly be prejudicial against them in any meaningful sociological way, if only because sociology does not apply to them. To put it another way, the question, while intriguing, is nonsense, res ipsa loquitor.

 

Now, if we were discussing a situation like.... I don't know... how about "All humans from Krasnovia are dark skinned, kinky-haired, and generally flat-nosed. They are seen as inherently inferior beings by the lighter skinned Buboxians who live on the other side of Lake Falalalala. The Buboxians regularly raid the Krasnovians, taking them for slaves (nearly three million slaves and counting, so far)"... if we were discussing a situation like that, we'd be talking racism...

 

But we aren't.

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Okay' date=' reality check time![/size']Guys, when talking about whether migdilar being inherently evil equals racism, or any other fantasy race for that matter, could we all please keep in mind that the migdilar are fictional?

 

They don't exist.

 

They are phantasms conjured up by Steve Long for our enjoyment.

 

And because they do not exist, we can hardly be prejudicial against them in any meaningful sociological way, if only because sociology does not apply to them.

 

Indeed. But if we rehearse judging characters' deserts on the basis of their race (and especially if we reinforce that activity with enjoyment) we may cultivate that habit of thought. The danger is not that we might harm some migdilar. The danger is that we might make ourselves more inclined to rely on racially-based heuristics. If one practices mental arithmetic, in time it comes naturally. If one rehearses grievances, one becomes more inclined to anger. If one rehearses sad, defeatist, and self-disparaging scripts one tends to become depressed. I fear that something similar might be true of making moral judgements on the basis of race. Practice it every Saturday night and reward it with fun, and in time it will shape your character.

 

I am well aware that we can all (or nearly all) distinguish the events of games from reality. But I don't think that that is conclusive. I believe that the human fascination with stories is a cognitive facility with which we are equipped for the purpose of learning: learning from other's experiences, and also learning about others' attitudes even in fiction. And it is now beyond doubt that many of these cognitive facilities operate below the level of consciousness. Be that as it may, I think that there is a very strong case that social and cultural norms are transmitted by means of stories. It is far from plain that fiction, even when it know to be such, can have no effect on attitudes and behaviour.

 

I don't think that anyone has expressed concern for the wrongs suffered by fictional characters. Your refutation of such concern is therefore not decisive, nor indeed even germane.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Indeed. But if we rehearse judging characters' deserts on the basis of their race (and especially if we reinforce that activity with enjoyment) we may cultivate that habit of thought. The danger is not that we might harm some migdilar. The danger is that we might make ourselves more inclined to rely on racially-based heuristics.

 

Oh bullshit. This is the same unprovable rhetoric that says heavy metal lyrics cause suicide, Christianity causes abortion clinic bombings, and D&D causes satan-worship.

 

No one is going to become a racist because of how the fictional migdilar are "treated". Such people who are inclined to racist behavior will be racist regardless of whether there's a race of bad guys in a roleplaying game because they are already badly wired (if you'll excuse the analogy), not because of the input from a roleplaying game.

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Oh bullshit. This is the same unprovable rhetoric that says heavy metal lyrics cause suicide' date=' Christianity causes abortion clinic bombings, and D&D causes satan-worship.[/quote']

 

It is by no means unprovable. You could take a statistically significant number of volunteers, divided them at random into a study group and a control group, and measure their propensity to make stereotype-based judgements of people (using one of those techniques based on measuring the delay in performing word-association tasks while placed under cognitive strain). Then you could put the study group through a long course of RP adventures designed to make an intrinsically-evil race salient, and the controls through an similar course with no inherently evil race. Then you could re-test their propensity to stereotyped associations of traits with racial groups.

 

This study has not been done that I know of, but you are wrong to say that what I suggest is unfalsifiable.

 

No one is going to become a racist because of how the fictional migdilar are "treated". Such people who are inclined to racist behavior will be racist regardless of whether there's a race of bad guys in a roleplaying game because they are already badly wired (if you'll excuse the analogy), not because of the input from a roleplaying game.

 

Your assertion, although confident and no doubt sincere, does not settle my apprehensions.

[proditor]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

I reiterate from before. ANYTHING can attract a fringe element. No, there have been no studies about the effrects of RPing in a game that encourages casual racism, but there have been studies about RPing and Heavy Metal and Video games being the steep slope to drugs, alchohol, satan-worshipping and raunchy sex. First off, I never got any of these side benefits from my hobbies or musical tatstes, so more than anything, I feel ripped off. That aside, the results, every darn time, are that for the vast majority of people these hobbies or entertainments have no appreciable effect in any of the mentioned/studied areas. For a small group, yes, it happens. My counter is that a small group also thinks they have been probed by aliens. Some folk will gravitate to certain things regardless of the setting, stimulus or peer pressure. Others will follow a path and accept something wholeheartedly and without reservation. And here we get to the sermon. THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM. This is the same thing that upsets me about the think about the children camp. Yes, there are times and places that are more appropos than others, but long and short, don't ride roughshod over my right to enjoy sick humor or foul language because you can't handle your child. The same rule applies here (loosely). Don't mess with my hobbies just because the same group that would insist they saw Elvis at the bowl-a-rama plays RPG's and turns into a bunch of anti-social tools because of it.

 

Sorry for the random and bitter nature of my post, but I have no tolerance for the idea of mandated protection based on the actions of a small minority that probably needs councilling as opposed to legislation.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

It is by no means unprovable. You could take a statistically significant number of volunteers, divided them at random into a study group and a control group, and measure their propensity to make stereotype-based judgements of people (using one of those techniques based on measuring the delay in performing word-association tasks while placed under cognitive strain). Then you could put the study group through a long course of RP adventures designed to make an intrinsically-evil race salient, and the controls through an similar course with no inherently evil race. Then you could re-test their propensity to stereotyped associations of traits with racial groups.

 

And you'd still never be sure that you've proven anything, because as has been pointed out, people already inclined toward racism will be inclined toward racism whether or not you "expose" them to the mistreatment of the poor, fictional migdilar.

 

I've been playing RPGs for 28 years (since March 15, 1976, in fact, when I was given D&D as a present for my 13th birthday). I've been, in the context of fantasy and gaming, slaughtering orcs, goblins, kobolds, and other so-called "evil races" by the millions for each of those 28 years.

 

By your reasoning, I ought to be a card-carrying member of the Aryan Brotherhood by now, with fifteen to twenty race-based crimes under my belt. I'm actually proud to tell you that this just isnt the case. And why?

 

Because racism is not something that can be implanted by a single outside source. Its too complicated for that.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

I reiterate from before. ANYTHING can attract a fringe element.

 

That's one of Niven's laws... "No cause is so right that one cannot find a complete and total idiot following it."

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Thinking about the most basic premise here, I've realized that I've rarely, if ever, played a game where race alone was the deciding factor in attacking a group. Generally speaking, fights came about in self-defense, or because the other group was at war with the players' nation, or the other group was plotting some evil scheme.

 

Except perhaps for the old classic "Keep on the Borderlands" adventure, where the players raid a cave complex to stop the depredations of several small clans of humanoids (none of which are ever actually in evidence, unless the GM/DM works it in on his own), I can't think of any instance where race is the primary deciding factor in whether to fight or not.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

"If video games affected us we'd be dancing in dark rooms to repetative music and eating pills."

 

.....

 

 

The point that was originally brought up is

 

"Does fostering a fictional racial hatred based on obvious or inobvious evils eventually foster a possiblity for that racially based hatred to leak into the real world? And should we, as a self aware group, consider the consequences of our actions in such a setting to take care that they do not, in point of fact, spill into the real world?"

 

I believe the answer to be Maybe and Yes respectively.

 

It's possible that, since people have continuously proven themselves to be gits in general throughout human history, playing out discrimination in "the game" might foster the idea in someone that it's ok outside "the game" as well. So we should, as a group of society-minded people, take this into consideration and curb that kind of behavior should we happen upon it.

 

Does this mean we need a wholesale reigning in of potentially threatening or deviant gaming behavior? No... everything is on a case by case basis and no amount of blanket enforcement (voluntary or otherwise) will prevent people from doing stupid and/or detrimental things to themselves and others around them.

 

 

there .. that's mostly what I was trying to say last night before passing out on my bed. And I never did get my Pizza. dammit.

[Beetle]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

The point that was originally brought up is

 

"Does fostering a fictional racial hatred based on obvious or inobvious evils eventually foster a possiblity for that racially based hatred to leak into the real world? And should we, as a self aware group, consider the consequences of our actions in such a setting to take care that they do not, in point of fact, spill into the real world?"

 

I believe the answer to be Maybe and Yes respectively.

This would only be the case if one accepts the extremely dubious (and as yet unproved) idea that fighting orcs (for example) in an RPG because they are inherently evil is analagous to racism in the real world. I don't think there's a real connection there. I haven't seen this connection proved either on this thread or in any of my personal experiences in 26 years of gaming.

 

Also, I think people are missing that the term "race" usually has a very different meaning in RPGs than it does in real life. What we're talking about with orcs (for example) isn't a different "race" in the manner of white/black/indian/chinese, but an entirely different type of creature that is not human.

[cyst13]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Techriron,

 

Sorry it took so long for my reply. I haven't been ducking you. I don't own my own computer, which limits my Net access.

 

You asked me to write an essay for you explaining my position in detail. This is a perfectly reasonable request to make. Unfortunately, I am hesitant to comply. I think one of the best aspects of Net discussion boards is that they are emergent phenomena. I may have started this thread, but after my first post, it ceased to be 'mine'. I don't want to offer anything which should be taken as the definitive account of this thread's intent. I prefer to see that arise from the interplay of all the thread's participants. However, I think perusing the past posts made ny Agemegos, Ghost-Angel, and myself will help clarify my intent, if you're still interested.

 

As a concession to Gunrunner, I do think he raised an important point. While I certainly would never support any form of externally imposed censorship on game companies or on gamers themselves, there is some danger that arguments on touchy subjects as race can be abused. If some social action group who is dead-set on destroying the RPG community (and we know from recent history that such groups do exist) were to read this thread, it would be possible to quote my words and perhaps those of Agemegos out of context in the mainstream media in an effort to discredit gaming as a whole. That's really not such a paranoid far-fetched scenario. Trouble is, I have no idea how to raise issues such as this without courting that danger. It's just something we have to live with.

 

Also, while Gunrunner was being deliberately provocative in comparing me to a Nazi, I really can't fault him for that. I also was being deliberately provocative in comparing slaughtering orcs to slaughtering Jews. I pushed an analogy to a logical extreme in order to prod the debate. Both Gunrunner and I may have ruffled some feathers along the way by using extreme rhetorical techniques, but ce la vie. I got over it, and I bet he has as well.

 

One point I do want to clear up is that I am not saying that including an "evil race" in a game has a one-to-one relationship to fostering real-life racism. Both Agemegos and Ghost-Angel seem to have picked-up on this subtle distinction, but I think it's worth repeating. What I am proposing is that there are numerous unconscious influences on our conscious beliefs. RPGs are only one such influence among a wide web of influences, but to many of us here, RPGs are a very significant aspect of our lives. While few of us would admit to being out-and-out racists, I think most of us have a propensity to make absolute categorizations of large groups of people during times of stress. This kind of thing can bring out racist beliefs/behavior during times of extreme stress in the best of people. Example:

 

The Army's investigation into the Abu Graib prisoner abuses found that anti-Arab racism is prevalent among the US soldiers there. (I hope no one misinterprets this as a slur upon US soldiers. I have enormous respect for the work our soldiers are doing in Iraq and the sacrifices they have and continue to make. I also think the soldiers on the ground are receiving an inordinate amount of blame for an institutional failure which was the responsibility of the military brass and our civilian leadership) While I can't prove this, I assume the soldiers serving in Abu Graib were initially no more hostile toward Arabs as a group than any other cross-section of Americans. However, when they were placed in the extreme stress of being shelled daily, seeing their comrades killed on a daily basis, receiving little support from the higher-ups, being removed from their families and social support groups for extended periods, and just the general grind of being in a stinkin hot desert day after day, their ability to rationally override the impulse to negatively stereotype those of another culture was diminished. In that situation, what is that determines which soldiers participate in the abuse of prisoners and which do not? There are, of course, a number of answers to that question. But I do think at least one factor is the way in which each individual soldier had been psychologically trained in the course of his life to view groups of others. When human beings are put in extremely stressful situations as that, what psychological resources do they have to resist the impulse to categorize people as groups rather than indiviuals?

 

To Gunrunner and any other soldiers or relatives of soldiers reading this, it is my sincerest hope that you do not interpret the above example as an attack upon the integrity of the US military or any individual soldiers currently serving in Iraq. Again, I have enormous respect for the sacrifices that they have all been asked to make in these most trying times.

 

So, to conclude. If a soldier at Abu Graib had spent his Saturday afternoons slaying evil orcs when he was in high school, would it mean that he would be more likely to view Arabs as a group as the enemy? No. I do not at all believe that could be made as a blanket statement. What I do believe is that it MAY constitute ONE aspect among many of a soldier's psychological constitution. It MAY be that some soldier in this circumstance MIGHT have the precise psychological balance that one influence in favor of judging an entire group (even a fictional group, like orcs) just MIGHT tip that soldier's view towards judging Arabs as a group, rather than as individuals. Note: this proposition applies to anyone under extreme stress, not just soldiers. Cops have to deal with these same issues, as well as other occupations.

 

Granted, I can't prove that my proposal is right. That's why I formed this thread's title as a question rather than a statement. In my own moral balance, I think that the possibility that pretending fictional groups can be categorized as 'evil' MAY impact my own real-life outlook during periods of extreme stress is reason enough not to include 'evil races' in my game. Whether anyone choose to follow suit is for them to decide.

[Nuke]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

I've only loosely followed this thread, but my comment in response to your initial question is that for every enjoyable hobby, there are those whose mind is such that it can be influenced by it. Some people are ensnared by good food, some by alcohol, and I'm sure some people by the violence in RPGs (where it's racial or not).

 

It was always my belief that the reason why the arguments of the 70s regarding the evils of D&D faded away was that people began to realize that it did not globally affect gamers. However, inevitibly, some gamers had the weaknesses I described above and could not separate fantasy from reality.

 

It's my belief that in general, racial stereotyping in gaming does not affect gamers in much the same way that playing Monopoly does not cause you to want to drive others bankrupt for your own gain. Our minds are pretty good at separating reality from fantasy, it's only the few isolated incidents of those with a mental "weakness" (if you will, knowing that we all have weaknesses in some area).

 

My characters (note that I purposely do not say "I) have slayed orcs, goblins, and kobolds by the thousands, and yet I have been called one of the gentlest and non-aggressive people my whole life. Killing them has not been a release for me because I had no aggression pent up. It is more that in the world of fantasy, often concessions are made that reduce realism and add enjoyability.

 

The world we live in is grey, and the world we live in is dull. Most fantasy gamers long for the world of simplicity, where being heroic means avoiding the greys most of the time. Not all of the time, a good GM always puts in scenarios every once in awhile to make the world more real (the "evil" orc family that on your way to slaughter you find out had just had all their children killed by the local community just for being orcs and made a retributive strike).

 

Lots of people on this board seem to thrive on "grey" campaigns, and more power to them. To me, though, I have enough grey to deal with watching the news! In fact, I'm longing more and more for a nice 4-color supers campaign, now those are a nice escape! *giggle*

[trechriron]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Thanks for the response Cyst13, I figured your net access was limited in one aspect or another with those auto-fire posts across the board at certain times.

 

You may have a theory, but I feel it would take some leg work, interviews, and serious social study before I would consider it a solid theory.

 

Have you seen the movie American History X ? I imagine some of my more racist friends got sucked into that flick on the premise of the violence and tone as it was advertised. Then the tables got turned on them. A great movie with an interesting intent.

 

IF (and this is a biggie IMO) stereotyping races as evil could lead towards a stress induced racist outlook (stress induced racism SIR…), then offering situations that break those stereotypes could lend to breaking that auto-response. Under this theory, that would be a possibility, even if I consider the theory to be remote.

 

In some ways I guess I have a hard time with the SIR theory as it is really a specific idea within the whole social engineering theory. One could assume that racist parents produce racist children. I pointed out before that my parents (and especially my Grand Father) were racist. I am not racist. This outlook has been repeated many times over the years in some of my friends. I also have a friend I would consider racist whose parents are decidedly NOT. So it is hard for me to grasp the idea that a persons environment influences choices to this degree. In the end I feel each person is responsible to make these choices. In movies and literature this theme; the racist person who sees the errors of their ways and CHOOSES to change, is repeated frequently.

 

I still feel our social responsibility lies within us. To ourselves we can hold a standard of equality and to ourselves we should practice it. A company or a group cannot be responsible to teach these values to others or to even regard the inclusion of any of these factors in a fictional work to impose such responsibility upon them. If they choose to use any influence to bring light to these issues, great! But it should be viewed for what it is; Not the manifestation of a company taking responsibility for enforcing values but a group of concerned people using their influence to educate their customers to an issue that is important to them. I am grateful for the courageous people who have created movies, literature, and even games that highlight these issues, as they have taught me humanity like no other lesson could.

 

A person choosing to do the right thing or make a difference is far more valuable in the end than any implied responsibility is ever going to be.

 

Thanks for the lively debate, I apologize for the tone of my first post. I have some strong feelings about racism and I harbor some deep hope that my nieces and nephews will grow up in a very different world I am seeing today.

 

See you around the boards,

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

And you'd still never be sure that you've proven anything' date=' because as has been pointed out, people already inclined toward racism will be inclined toward racism whether or not you "expose" them to the mistreatment of the poor, fictional migdilar.[/quote']

 

Then there would be no difference between the study group and the control group, and probably no difference between the 'before' and 'after' measurements.

 

Because racism is not something that can be implanted by a single outside source. Its too complicated for that.

 

Perhaps. But practice increases facility even with complex skills.

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

I have no tolerance for the idea of mandated protection based on the actions of a small minority that probably needs councilling as opposed to legislation.

 

No more have I. But fortunately no-one has yet suggested it. The question is "Does fostering a fictional racial hatred based on obvious or inobvious evils eventually foster a possiblity for that racially based hatred to leak into the real world? And should we, as a self aware group, consider the consequences of our actions in such a setting to take care that they do not, in point of fact, spill into the real world?"

 

Does it happen? I don't know, but maybe. Should we consider the consequences of our actions and take care? I think that's a no-brainer: yes. Should the nanny-state legislate? Hell no!

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

The world we live in is grey' date=' and the world we live in is dull. Most fantasy gamers long for the world of simplicity, where being heroic means avoiding the greys most of the time.[/quote']

 

It seems to me that play in general consists (or at least includes a component) of exercising faculties with which we have been equipped either by evolution or our various creators and which do not get enough of a workout in our daily lives. A lot of sports, for example, seem to exercise the faculties of a hunter or even a warrior. If that is the case, then perhaps RP situations that require sorting working out which are the good guys and which the bad appeal to those people whose daily lives do not demand enough to fatigue their moral faculties, while those players whose everyday circumstances either fatigue their moral discriminations or are such that their moral discriminations inhibit the exercise of other faculties.

 

Me, I find RP adventures in which the good guys can be discriminated from the bad guys by some trivial physical observation to be damned dull.

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

I still feel our social responsibility lies within us.

 

So do I, and so I think does Cyst13. But that isn't inconsistent with pointing out possible dangers to others, is it? Everyone has to make their own judgements, but must they necessarily gather their own information, and refrain from sharing insights?

 

I think it is an interesting reflection of our times that so many of us interpret any argument that something that happens is or might be bad, and every argument that something that isn't happing would or might be good, as an attempt to expand the scope of government intervention. I guess that experience of the last thirty-five years or so would give people that impression.

[proditor]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

No more have I. But fortunately no-one has yet suggested it. The question is "Does fostering a fictional racial hatred based on obvious or inobvious evils eventually foster a possiblity for that racially based hatred to leak into the real world? And should we, as a self aware group, consider the consequences of our actions in such a setting to take care that they do not, in point of fact, spill into the real world?"

 

Does it happen? I don't know, but maybe. Should we consider the consequences of our actions and take care? I think that's a no-brainer: yes. Should the nanny-state legislate? Hell no!

I agree with your second paragraph completely, but...I think the predication here is we don't know our groups/players well enough to know if they are going to be able to handle a game where "clearly defined evil by appearance" will lead them down a slippery slope. Now in the beginning of any newish group, this can be a hazard. However, I'd think that a few sessions would enable you to see what caliber of folk you are gaming with and take whatever measures you consider appropos. This could range from making sure more impressionable members understand the concept of RL ambiguity to simply not gaming with that person and saying "Dude, it's a game. The orcs are not a zionist conspiracy and you are frankly creeping me out. Good luck in the future, I won't be back." Because really, in the end, that's who you are responsible for. Yourself and your kids. If they and you are settled firmly enough on planet earth, the difference between an orc and a RL anything else will be clear enough so that this is never an issue. Not taking you to task per se, just outlining my own sort of personal responsibility idea.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Oh bullshit. This is the same unprovable rhetoric that says heavy metal lyrics cause suicide' date=' Christianity causes abortion clinic bombings, and D&D causes satan-worship.[/quote']A friend of mine with a psychology degree once told me that domestic violence figures spike on the nights when a heavyweight title bout is televised. Explain that Mr. What-We-Watch-Doesn't-Affect-Us-In-Any-Way.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

In my view the concept of evil races does promote racism. Very very very very slightly. So slightly in fact that I don't think it's worth worrying about.

 

Ultimately even the best of us are at least a little bit racist. Provided it's no more than that I don't think we should beat ourselves up over it or be too concerned about it.

 

There's a lot of far more important, big, serious evils out there we could be confronting instead.

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

A friend of mine with a psychology degree once told me that domestic violence figures spike on the nights when a heavyweight title bout is televised. Explain that Mr. What-We-Watch-Doesn't-Affect-Us-In-Any-Way.

 

Easy. Heavyweight title bouts are real, and therefore people can't distinguish between them a reality. But experiments have shown that even children can tell fiction from reality. So obviously violence and hateful attitudes lauded in fiction are harmless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[That's ironic, godammit!]

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

A friend of mine with a psychology degree once told me that domestic violence figures spike on the nights when a heavyweight title bout is televised. Explain that Mr. What-We-Watch-Doesn't-Affect-Us-In-Any-Way.

 

 

Yeah, sure. I've seen the results of studies that show that domestic violence vs. men... yes, you read that right...spikes during the Superbowl, too.

 

I think its the same thing as the "breast cancer epidemic" foolishness. The number of breast cancer cases hasn't changed... the tracking of breast cancer has.

 

In short, the studies are skewed to produce expected results.

[Agemegos]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

Because really' date=' in the end, that's who you are responsible for. Yourself and your kids. If they and you are settled firmly enough on planet earth, the difference between an orc and a RL anything else will be clear enough so that this is never an issue. Not taking you to task per se, just outlining my own sort of personal responsibility idea.[/quote']

 

Well, this may be why we arrive at different conclusions. I believe that we are responsible for all the predictable consequences of our actions, not just their effects on ourselves and our children. If a demagogue incites a mob to riot, is he not responsible for that? If an official orders an atrocity, is he not responsibile for the actions of his subordinates? If a preacher preaches bigotry, is he not responsible for religious hatred insofar as it results from his sermons?

 

Besides which, if you cast your mind back over the matter of this thread, you will recall that I have been arguing on the basis that playing genocidal characters may make ourselves, not others, more at risk of becoming racist.

 

I understand the widespread skepticism. But experience of cognitive-behavioural techniques has astonished me with the extent to which people are able to change their characters by use of mental drills. And there is ample evidence from experiments in social psychology that demonstrates that prejudices which we usually keep well under control by self-monitoring can leak around the edges of our guards when we are concentrating on other issues. Best, in my opinion, not to form the prejudices. And safest, therefore, not to rehearse making moral judgements on the basis of birth, even in play.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

 

You know what? All you overly sensitive whack-jobs are right... the presence of evil races... the migdilar, or the orcs... have made me a racist. I'm absolutely sure that I will be utterly vile and prejudicial to the next orc or migdilar I ever encounter.

 

Until then, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.