Super crime scene reconstructionist...

[Tetsuyama]

How would you build this? My current design for the character includes some skills (Criminology and a host of sciences, mostly from Dark Champions) and a retrocog power built like so:

 

Sight and hearing group clairsentience; Retrocognition Only(-1), Requires a Skill Roll (Criminology, -1/2), Reduced by Time (-1/2)

 

I don't think that the character should be able to see faces of people in the reconstruction; should that be an additional disadvantage? The skill penalties associated with the time steps seem pretty brutal -- if the character arrives at a crime scene two hours afterwards, the skill roll is -8 (if I read the time chart right), but I don't know that it makes sense for the character to have a Criminology in the 20s (right now it's something like 13- with an additional 3 skill levels which apply).

 

Any suggestions?

[Acroyear]

Perhaps add a lim like:

Identifying features of participants take an additional skill roll with appropriate equipment -1/4

 

This simulates that while analyzing the crime scene, the individual can, in fact, determine who the person is... via fingerprints, DNA, etc... but needs not only the proper lab to analyze it but needs files to compare it to. If the person is on file, he can get a match... otherwise, he has to wait until he gets the proper "equipment" (matching sample).

[Balok]

Re: Super crime scene reconstructionist...

 

Originally posted by Tetsuyama

The skill penalties associated with the time steps seem pretty brutal -- if the character arrives at a crime scene two hours afterwards, the skill roll is -8 (if I read the time chart right), but I don't know that it makes sense for the character to have a Criminology in the 20s (right now it's something like 13- with an additional 3 skill levels which apply).

 

I'm afraid it's worse than you think. Two hours is eight steps down the time chart (p. 233); at -2 per step (p. 94), the modifier is -16!

 

I don't know, because I've never playtested it, but you might take a version of Reduced By Time that's a -1/4 limitation in exchange for a -1 per time step. That's still fairly brutal, as you noted.

 

Based on "Vague and Unclear", I'd say "Unable to see faces" might be a -1/4 limitation at best. The problem is that you don't NEED to see faces to make a positive ID for some techniques, like fingerprints. So we're edging close to "A limitation that doesn't cause problems isn't a limitation!" (p. 179). In a game I ran, you'd have to make a clear case explaining the reasons you felt not being able to see the faces of the perps was a clear disadvantage.

 

One thing to consider is "Extra Time". As defined, your character can pick up his facts "at a glance" (i.e. in his phase). But it normally takes time to piece together the situation from gathered clues. See p. 186 for the "Extra Time" limitation rules.

 

HTH

[BobGreenwade]

Rather than the time and faces limitations being discussed, I'd just give a simple Limitation Based On Available Physical Evidence for -1/2. That way he couldn't see a criminal's face no matter how quickly he arrived, but he could reconstruct activities three or four years after the fact based on blood spatters revealed by luminol or fluoriscin.

[Ghost Archer]

I'm sorry but isn't this a case of creating a Power that duplicates an existing one? Okay, so it's a Power that duplicates a Skill in this instance. I am curious why you need such a 'fool proof' form of Criminology? It's a neat idea but maybe all you need to do is watch CSI a few times.

Originally posted by BobGreenwade

Rather than the time and faces limitations being discussed, I'd just give a simple Limitation Based On Available Physical Evidence for -1/2. That way he couldn't see a criminal's face no matter how quickly he arrived, but he could reconstruct activities three or four years after the fact based on blood spatters revealed by luminol or fluoriscin.

Criminology is already Based On Available Physical Evidence and can even give clues many years after the crime. As a GM, I wouldn't allow this Power because it already exists in Criminology. We all know Retrocognition is one of those Powers that can destroy a story line. I create mysteries for my team, I leave clues, I leave physical evidence, I don't want to have surrender information to the team because they are too lazy to think. I will gladly answer any questions they ask and don't expect them to be Forensic Scientists or pathologists. All I need it an inkling they are on the right track. If they aren't, time for a little Skill roll and some hints but I much prefer to roleplay it without dice.

[Acroyear]

The power idea has been used to simulate skills a few times. Super Interrogation as telepathy, for example.

 

He's SO good, that he puts together information that seems unavailable to normal skill use.

 

Maybe instead of the "affected by time" lim, you can use a lim like "contested roll." So another criminologist/criminal can make it more difficult. And if there is no skill, the crime scene acts like a 0 Stat skill roll that gets bonuses as if it were "taking extra time" based on the time chart.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Ghost Archer

I'm sorry but isn't this a case of creating a Power that duplicates an existing one? Okay, so it's a Power that duplicates a Skill in this instance. I am curious why you need such a 'fool proof' form of Criminology? It's a neat idea but maybe all you need to do is watch CSI a few times.

 

Criminology is already Based On Available Physical Evidence and can even give clues many years after the crime. As a GM, I wouldn't allow this Power because it already exists in Criminology. We all know Retrocognition is one of those Powers that can destroy a story line. I create mysteries for my team, I leave clues, I leave physical evidence, I don't want to have surrender information to the team because they are too lazy to think. I will gladly answer any questions they ask and don't expect them to be Forensic Scientists or pathologists. All I need it an inkling they are on the right track. If they aren't, time for a little Skill roll and some hints but I much prefer to roleplay it without dice.

I tend to work the same way, but sometimes there's an important difference between the lead characters in The Profiler and the average criminal profiler in fiction or reality. Sam Waters and Rachel Burke had the "gift" of being able to immediately "see" what happened based on tiny clues. Similarly, a reconstructionist with this ability would be able to tell the sequence and location of events at a glance without having to carefully measure and string spatters, footprints, and other visible clues. It's the same information, but the character gets it in a matter of minutes -- or less -- instead of hours or days.

[Monday Knights]

If the character is psychic use the precog however you want to limit it.

 

If the character is "just that good", then Criminology 20- or greater.

[Asperion]

I fail to see the problem that this power would cause. Acroyear has a good idea by making the scene a 0 Stat but that would be hard to actually pull off. I also disagree with what Ghost Archer stated. As the GM he has the ability to "see" what the retrocog "sees". If he does not want the character to "see" anything then make the vision so blurry that nothing can be determined. Even with an 18 the vision would not grant very much useful information about the scene. A good GM has more tools at his disposal than the players both realize and can use themselves. If the cog is working with the local law enforcement people then an easy (and overused) solution would be that the other people are interfering with the aura of the scene. If the cog is a solo-operator, then the solution is harder but still a good GM can create ways to confuse the cog trying to read the scene. As a GM myself I would allow the power as stands and bring it into concideration when planning any mystery that the PCs will be put through. And remember: this power only allows visions of the past. There are other ways to foil the character by using the future.

[allen]

Re: Super crime scene reconstructionist...

 

Originally posted by Tetsuyama

How would you build this? My current design for the character includes some skills (Criminology and a host of sciences, mostly from Dark Champions) and a retrocog power built like so:

 

Sight and hearing group clairsentience; Retrocognition Only(-1), Requires a Skill Roll (Criminology, -1/2), Reduced by Time (-1/2)

 

I don't think that the character should be able to see faces of people in the reconstruction; should that be an additional disadvantage? The skill penalties associated with the time steps seem pretty brutal -- if the character arrives at a crime scene two hours afterwards, the skill roll is -8 (if I read the time chart right), but I don't know that it makes sense for the character to have a Criminology in the 20s (right now it's something like 13- with an additional 3 skill levels which apply).

 

Any suggestions?

 

If you feel Reduced By Time is too restrictive, then it probably doesn't belong and you should probably get rid of it.

 

Also, RSR says something about if the Skill doesn't apply (I think), the character can't use the Power... so in the case where a crime scene has been totally trashed and/or a great deal of time has passed, the power doesn't apply since the skill doesn't apply. The evidence is tainted or gone or whatever, and nothing can be determined.

 

(Gotta say, I like Balok's interpretation of Extra Time though -- I'm not sure how much fiddle-faddling with the rules it would require.)

 

Concerning the penalty: Don't forget RSR also suffers an Active Point penalty (-1 per 10), so the hole just got deeper.

 

Concerning faces: I'd rule no Limitation; it's a part of the special effect.

[Tetsuyama]

Wow! Lots of good comments! It sounds like maybe instead of Reduced by Time, I should just make it opposed and have it take Extra Time (like a Turn or Minute or something). It's at least partially a special effect, since the character probably has the skill rolls to make most "normal" Criminology checks (SS: Criminology, Criminology, and Deduction all at effectively 15- currently, and I think 9 different science skills such as Fingerprint Analysis and Bloodstain Interpretation, some at 11- and some at 13-). Or I could dump the power and just ratchet the skills up a notch. But being a superhero, I was thinking that something a bit beyond the normal would be cool.

 

I was kind of thinking of a character in some ways like Gillian from Hinz's Paratwa trilogy. In one of the books (Ash Ock?) he walks through a recent crime scene, and is able to reconstruct things about how the criminals fought (e.g. they started here, they moved these directions, then they disappeared into the crowd). Planned for later are Tactics, Analyze Combat Technique and something like KS: Terrorist/Military Training, so as to be able to determine not only how the criminals fought, but if they were trained, where they were trained, and by whom.

 

The point isn't to make this character a scenario-buster, but rather to make it obvious that this character is *MUCH* better at crime scene analysis and crime reconstruction than the average CSI. I only want information that could be gleaned from normal highly skilled criminological analysis, just in a much faster and more dramatic way.

 

Of course, since there are no Psychology-type skills in the list currently, the character won't know why the crime was committed, or what the criminals' likely next move is...

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Tetsuyama

Of course, since there are no Psychology-type skills in the list currently, the character won't know why the crime was committed, or what the criminals' likely next move is...

You could always use Analyze.

[death tribble]

One of the Champions books, I think it was Champions Presents 2 but I stand open to correction dealt with Retrocognition and how to get round it.

It dealt with a murder in Stronghold. Same book detailed the Cobra and the Coil organization.