Evil Toki Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Well he isn’t evil per se, but throughout the seven trade paperbacks I have read on the Ultimate X-men he tends to be wrong or make bad choices. Now I know he is supposed to be the bastion of light, but I wonder about the old bald man. I mean he pretty much used his mind control abilities on the whole United States to fake Magneto’s death. Not sure if he was justified because the admitted terrorist once freed from his control goes on another killer rampage. He sends Wolverine with Cyclops to the Savage Land, just after they almost killed each other. No surprise that Cyclops does not comes back, and well was nearly killed by Wolverine, but hey he was trying to teach them a lesson right? He is pretty arrogant too, and well obviously a horrible father and husband, again pointing at his many failures both professional and personal. I mean the whole reprogramming of Magneto is a pretty arrogant act in thinking he could change one of the most evil men on the planet. He sends a mixed message as well. He promotes peace and nonviolence and then trains his X-men to fight, although they should refrain from taking lives. This failed horribly in World Tour, and nearly got Iceman killed. His actions spark the Ultimate War, and nearly get his X-men annihilated again. I know there are other happenstances but I am just wondering if I am alone in thinking that there is something just off or wrong about Xavier? At least in the Ultimate universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Well he isn’t evil per se' date=' but throughout the seven trade paperbacks I have read on the Ultimate X-men he tends to be wrong or make bad choices. Now I know he is supposed to be the bastion of light, but I wonder about the old bald man.[/quote'] Actually, Ult Xaver is *not* supposed to be the bastion of light in the Ultiverse. That's the tragedy of Ultimate X-Men. Although the kids don't know it, it's *not* "Magneto = bad, Xavier = good". Instead, it's more like an Aberrant thing. Magneto is the 'kill all the baselines!' faction of the Teragen. And Ult Xavier is the 'no, let's just smile and manipulate the baselines while pretending to be friendly' faction of the Teragen. When your only two choices are between Geryon and Count Orzaiz, your life sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Yeah, there are few things that make you go "Hmmm?" when you look at Ultimate Xavier. But good lord, he's a choir boy compared to Ultimate Mags... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Toki Posted August 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Actually, Ult Xaver is *not* supposed to be the bastion of light in the Ultiverse. That's the tragedy of Ultimate X-Men. Although the kids don't know it, it's *not* "Magneto = bad, Xavier = good". That was my thoughts, but I wasn't sure. Instead, it's more like an Aberrant thing. Magneto is the 'kill all the baselines!' faction of the Teragen. And Ult Xavier is the 'no, let's just smile and manipulate the baselines while pretending to be friendly' faction of the Teragen. When your only two choices are between Geryon and Count Orzaiz, your life sucks. Yeah you really are stuck between a rock and a hard place there... nice Aberrant references... loved that setting. But yeah Xavier is a manipulative cripple... he scares me sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Toki Posted August 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Yeah, there are few things that make you go "Hmmm?" when you look at Ultimate Xavier. But good lord, he's a choir boy compared to Ultimage Mags... Ultimate Magneto is evil, but he is the dangrous kind of evil. The kind of evil that makes you think, you know maybe he is right... even though you know he is dead wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Actually, that's how I look at regular Magneto. Ultimate Magneto's just a WMD with feet, and my only thoughts involving him are "Gee, that's scary" and "How fast can I make it die?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! If I had to make comparison to Aberrant. The Brotherhood seems to be like the Primacy Faction of the Teragen advocating a violent and active take over. Geryon's group Nova Vigilance seems to act more like "defenders" moving aginst groups that seek to "oppress" Novas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! That still leaves the X-Men as an exercise in "What if Team Tomorrow were really run by the Casablancas?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! To be honest I got that feeling at the end of the very first storyline where him and Cyclops are talking and "Phase one is complete" I agree, he's not evil per se, he is very self serving, has a goal and will handle people who don't agree with it in a very sublte way. It honestly makes you wonder if the kids are there because they want to be or because he's been pushing them to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Apparently, even Scott "I'm the most ultimately loyal SOB to ever walk the planet" Summers has required repeat telepathic 'adjustment', to keep him from storming out on several occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! It reminds me of the time Ult Spiderman (Now he, at least, has retained his super-morality) met the baldy. He brought him an emerging mutant to see if he could be helped. Well, turns out the guy wasn't a natural mutant, but had recieved alterations while in the womb, making him a display item for human mutant relations spidey: "Uh, when I brought him in, he seemed kind of mutant-phobic. I'm not sure he'll go for the idea when he wakes up." Xavier: "I'm afraid this isn't really up to him anymore. It's much too important" Spidey: *contemplates breaking the young'n out, till he gets a telepathic no-no from xavier* yeah, the gimp really is creepy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! The film xavier is quite scary as well. Telepathically aquires a 500m dollar stealth plane, and no one remembers . not to mention building a doomsday weapon that supercharges his telepathy/mind controll to world wide levels. Some one else could use it after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! Not a fan of Ultimate X-Men, and the portrayal of Xavier in it is one of the reasons why. But that's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! I can't comment on the Ultimates, but I found the thread interesting and thought I'd mention that (as it's related) Xavier in my world is naive and foolish, despite being quite intelligent and powerful. I do this for a few reasons, flavor being one of course, but another is that given how powerful he can be, this helps balance him, so I suspect the same could be true for the Ultimates series (balance being more to explain why he can't/doesn't whip-ass as effectively as he should, keeping dramatic rather than a game balance). Game-wise, though, the issue also is that I have a Disad for being a graduate of his "New School for the Gifted" so that's the primary consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyJimStudly Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Re: Ultimate X-Men: Xavier is EVIL! I know there are other happenstances but I am just wondering if I am alone in thinking that there is something just off or wrong about Xavier? At least in the Ultimate universe. I don't think he's that far off from the Xavier in some of the recent X-books from the mainstream universe (though I don't read them regularly, so I just see snapshots). He is a fair way from the noble mentor of the Claremont/Byrne era, but I think the Ultimate version is intended to be a bit more realistic, if that can be applied to comic books. After all, Ultimate Xavier is... 1) a super-genius 2) a utopian who believes he has the solution to all the world's problems 3) capable of altering the thoughts and perceptions of just about anyone who disagrees with him 4) relatively detached from humanity by his powers and intellect, he doesn't even like to speak, listen, or read Points 1 and 2 mean that he believes he's right and (quite reasonably) believes very few other people are capable of evaluating the facts as he can; point 3 makes it very tempting to run roughshod over any objection (and he feels such objection is likely to be shortsighted due to points 1 and 2), and that means that he doesn't hear a whole lot of dissent. Point 4 means he probably isn't good at normal human communication anyway. Put that all together and I think the Ultimate X-Men version is a pretty reasonable portrayal. You might want to read The Ultimates for comparison - in the first trade, at least, a lot more of those characters are kinda disfunctional, without the same excuses as Xavier. I thought they maybe went a bit too far in making those characters basket-cases, but that might have changed in subsequent issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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