Gods and Champions

[Kirby]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Thanks' date=' it also makes for good rivalry or hunted for any PCs who ARE 'real' gods or champions of Gods. ... [/quote']

Hey, this just keeps getting better. In fact, I like this better than the "duplicate name" rivalries (such as Thunderbolt I & II, etc.).

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Thanks' date=' it also makes for good rivalry or hunted for any PCs who ARE 'real' gods or champions of Gods. If say, Magni (son of Thor) finds out there is some guy falsely calling himself Odin or Heimdell in order to pull a con... or Horus' champion sees a group of gullible folks gathering around a female mastermind who's dubbed herself Isis... well, once they find out, watch the fireworks start. [/quote']

 

 

All I will say to this, Hermit, is "great minds..."

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

It makes more sense if you use the Bible I have: "And the angels of the Lord went unto the daughters of men' date=' and lay with them. And thus were born the giants that were in the Earth in the old days, and among these was Nimrod, who was a mighty hunter before the Lord, wherefore it is said, even as Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord."[/quote']

 

So would you go with the "giants that were in the Earth in the old days" part and make a growing brick, or the "Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord" part and make... say a Wolverine/Shieldless Captain America Warrior?

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Thanks' date=' it also makes for good rivalry or hunted for any PCs who ARE 'real' gods or champions of Gods. If say, Magni (son of Thor) finds out there is some guy falsely calling himself Odin or Heimdell in order to pull a con... or Horus' champion sees a group of gullible folks gathering around a female mastermind who's dubbed herself Isis... well, once they find out, watch the fireworks start. [/quote']

 

One of the PCs in my campaign is quite literally the grand-daughter of Apollo... this gives me really interesting ideas.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Of course' date=' now I've jinxed it, and it'll immediately turn into a raging flamewar. Rebut-itis will spread through each post and it'll have to be shut down. Might as well report it to Ben right now and save ourselves the trouble...what a shame.[/quote']

 

Nah... I just want to put that team in the GGU.

[ChuckB]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I don't know' date=' I like the relative absence of bigoted nutbars. Mutant Hatred has never been my favorite plot device.[/quote']

Well...the whole anti-mutant thing would make a little more sense if mutants were the only superpowered game in town. In my game I expanded Genocide's charter to include altered humans, ETs, robots, Cyborgs, etc.

[Kirby]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

So would you go with the "giants that were in the Earth in the old days" part and make a growing brick' date=' or the "Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord" part and make... say a Wolverine/Shieldless Captain America Warrior?[/quote']

I like the growing brick, but I would say Nimrod would be closer to someone like Green Arrow, or a HERO modified super version of Predator. I personally wouldn't consider Wolverine or Captain America a hunter.

 

But that does make me think of the days of "Sgt. Rock."

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

There was a great team in Astro City of religious superheroes. They're called the Crossbreed.

 

Here's a link.link

 

Ah yes, the Crossbreed. I have several Fundie (non-crazy) and Evangelical friends who love that group and AC's depiction of them. Confessor (ex-Catholic priest turned vigilante vampire) was amazing too.

 

And I personally think that CONFESSIONS is the best plot line to use religion I've ever seen in any comic book anywhere.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

BTW, talking about the problem of pagan gods walking the earth -- how do you think the world would react when word gets out about Tezcatlipoca (from Arcane Adversaries) trying to bringback the Aztec Empire in Mexico/the American Southwest? (If you're using both AA and the HU, that is.)

 

Now, there are quite a few Mexican Supremacist groups that are big on 'our Aztec ancestors' (which sounds to me like a Klansman bragging about 'his Sioux ancestors'), but I can't help but to think that a lot of folks, not just religious ones, would be dismayed to see the return of the Flowery Way and marathon sacrifice sessions atop the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan.

 

(Oooh, and just imagine old Tezzy trying to raise Tenochtitlan /through/ the center of Mexico City...)

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

BTW, talking about the problem of pagan gods walking the earth -- how do you think the world would react when word gets out about Tezcatlipoca (from Arcane Adversaries) trying to bringback the Aztec Empire in Mexico/the American Southwest? (If you're using both AA and the HU, that is.)

 

Now, there are quite a few Mexican Supremacist groups that are big on 'our Aztec ancestors' (which sounds to me like a Klansman bragging about 'his Sioux ancestors'), but I can't help but to think that a lot of folks, not just religious ones, would be dismayed to see the return of the Flowery Way and marathon sacrifice sessions atop the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan.

 

(Oooh, and just imagine old Tezzy trying to raise Tenochtitlan /through/ the center of Mexico City...)

 

I just got a lot more interested in seeing ARCANE ENEMIES and the write-up on Tezcatlipoca. I might be able to use this one in my campaign. Might be interesting to see how the non-divine characters react to a pantheon vs. pantheon war with their companion Horus-Re on one side...

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I like the growing brick, but I would say Nimrod would be closer to someone like Green Arrow, or a HERO modified super version of Predator. I personally wouldn't consider Wolverine or Captain America a hunter.

 

One devoutly Christian Green Arrow clone coming up.

[Hermit]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

One devoutly Christian Green Arrow clone coming up.

 

One may already exist in the CU. I once asked Darren about "Straight Arrow" mentioned in the 5th Ed CU book. Of course, that character is female, but hey

[Acroyear]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

The connections of names to powers is fairly obvious once you read the passages being used as the character names:

 

I was speaking "off the top of my head." I wasn't going to go dig out a Bible and start looking them up.

 

I do think it's a pretty cool idea to use scriptures as names, though. I think it's a great way to give Christian beliefs a foot in the comics without appearing to espouse their particular viewpoint. Plus, it makes me want to go hunting for some more ideas from my bible.

 

We've used the Bible as a great source of material for horror campaigns. There's lots of "supernatural" beasties and such, too, which can just as easily be adapted for superhero campaigns.

 

Though I generally frown on seeing a character like "Hi, I'm Moses" and he starts throwing plagues around and stuff. But things like a dude who has the ring of Solomon, or a descendent of the witch of Endor (?? no, not an ewok), stuff like that... good stuff, imo.

[BishopofB&W]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Warrior Nun Areala is fun in a quirky kind of way. The Catholic Church is still wealthy and powerful as ever because demons are known to walk the Earth and lead their minions such as the Demon Mafia. The Catholic Church has proven methods of fighting them. Their main soldiers are the warrior nuns and magic-priests. I didn't think it made fun of the Catholic Church in any way and the writer complied with a complaint from a real order of nuns that Areala's costume was too revealing.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Well...the whole anti-mutant thing would make a little more sense if mutants were the only superpowered game in town. In my game I expanded Genocide's charter to include altered humans, ETs, robots, Cyborgs, etc.

 

True, that keeps it logical, but I'm just not a big fan of the subgenre.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I just got a lot more interested in seeing ARCANE ENEMIES and the write-up on Tezcatlipoca. I might be able to use this one in my campaign. Might be interesting to see how the non-divine characters react to a pantheon vs. pantheon war with their companion Horus-Re on one side...

 

Heh, let me put it this way: Tezcatlapoca is a megavillain.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Yep, this definitely makes me more interested in ARCANE ENEMIES.

[Kirby]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Warrior Nun Areala is fun in a quirky kind of way. ... I didn't think it made fun of the Catholic Church in any way and the writer complied with a complaint from a real order of nuns that Areala's costume was too revealing.

While I've never read the series, is this the "Warrior Nun" where she wears a habit that reveals cleavage and shows off pretty much all of her legs? If this is it, I saw that as part of the desperation grunginess that comics were becoming (in my opinion). Granted, I haven't read comics or gone into a comic store regularly in years, so they could have changed overall, but I doubt it.

 

If this is the same "nun," about what issue # did they finally change her costume?

[BishopofB&W]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

While I've never read the series, is this the "Warrior Nun" where she wears a habit that reveals cleavage and shows off pretty much all of her legs? If this is it, I saw that as part of the desperation grunginess that comics were becoming (in my opinion). Granted, I haven't read comics or gone into a comic store regularly in years, so they could have changed overall, but I doubt it.

 

If this is the same "nun," about what issue # did they finally change her costume?

 

That's the one. I can't find any of the comics, but I've got a couple of trade paperbacks. I'll look in the #2 paperback: Rituals. In the plot, Areala nearly dies. While she's in coma, Mother Superior re-designs her outfit for more modesty. She explains that she never liked the old one due to its high '70s influence(Those mid-thigh slits up the sides:D). Understandable for a superhero comic book but inappropriate for a nun. BTW, her habit transformed into battle mode in a manner reminiscent of G-Force Transmute!) Anyway, an order of NY martial artist nuns complained and the writer got rid of the cleaveage and added leggings under the habit.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Nah... I just want to put that team in the GGU.

 

By the by, I've mentioned the Jesus Freaks team/performance troupe in a couple of backgrounds. Would you like more information on them?

[Blue]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Doesn't it seem that religous based Superheroes get a sort of lopsided treatment? Characters like Thor, Hercules and others never seem to catch much flak for claiming to be pagan gods and such, but Christian based supers are either unheard of or portrayed as over zealous wack jobs. I'm not a particularly religous person so please don't take this a some sort of rant, just something I've noticed.

 

I think characters like Thor should be facing some major PR issues, more so than mutant really. Claiming not only to be divine, but Pagan would raise some serious issues in some places. Maybe there would be an organization like the Church of the Archangel Michael or other mutant hate groups, but religously inspired and dedicated to putting down/debunking the false gods. Has anyone done anything like this in their campaigns?

I haven't been in this thread yet, so I haven't read everything.

 

My character, Anthem, I made catholic, just because I was writing stories based around her and liked writing confessional scenes where her priest is the only one who knows her identity. And it made a nice contrast for... wait for it... the campaign's major religious evil whack-job. Yup, I'm guilty.

 

The primary villain of the campaign was a pope from a period back in the 600's when there was no pope in the Vatican record. So I made up a story that he was "expunged" from all records and denounced and lost to history due to his horrible inquisition-like tactics and ruthless pursuit of power for the church.

 

He had an ability to convert, though a baptismal, heroes into villains. He did so with 2 of the campaign background heroes, giving them religious names. SO there was not just one religious whack-job, there was a team! Magdalene, Crucifier, The Black Pope, etc.

 

But mind you, that doesn't keep me from making pagan whack-jobs too. I'm equal opportunity in that regard.

 

And I've recently been updating the greek gods to make them superheroes of ancient times, some of whom still exist today in lower profile capacities.

[OddHat]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

In my own campaigns, the largest and most respected private force of Supers in the world is controlled by the Catholic Church. They are the closest I have to a JLI. One of my players is born-again, and had great fun playing a Demon-Fighting Priest working for Rome. Most of his characters are religious in their private lives.

 

Satanic and Edomite Cults are my favorite source for villains, and more or less every magician in my campaigns has some sort of theological link.

 

I've used religious Villain and Heroes from Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Shinto, Taoist and Hindu sources so far; rich sources of ideas, all of them. The key to doing it right is to take their beliefs seriously. Want a Hindu hero? Do your research, and treat him with respect. Want a Jewish Villain? Make sure that his reasons for acting as he does make as much sense as those of any of your other Villains. The trap to avoid is making a caricature. It can be tough.

 

When I can, I try to have religious villains pursue goals that make sense in context. If you're being chased by a Catholic super-team, it's because they've come to believe that you're under infernal influence or otherwise a threat to the world, not because "Catholics attack non-Catholics."

 

If you're not sure your group will be comfortable with it, it's best kept in the background.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

By the by' date=' I've mentioned the Jesus Freaks team/performance troupe in a couple of backgrounds. Would you like more information on them?[/quote']

 

 

In a couple of which backgrounds? You've mentioned them for characters already in play in the GGU?

 

By all means I'd like more information.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

The primary villain of the campaign was a pope from a period back in the 600's when there was no pope in the Vatican record. So I made up a story that he was "expunged" from all records and denounced and lost to history due to his horrible inquisition-like tactics and ruthless pursuit of power for the church.

 

He had an ability to convert, though a baptismal, heroes into villains. He did so with 2 of the campaign background heroes, giving them religious names. SO there was not just one religious whack-job, there was a team! Magdalene, Crucifier, The Black Pope, etc.

 

But mind you, that doesn't keep me from making pagan whack-jobs too. I'm equal opportunity in that regard.

 

Do you have a writeup for this guy?

[Rene]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Yes, Astro City's CONFESSION is probably the best attempt so far of mixing superheroes and religion in a positive (but not rosy-colored) light. The Confessor was a devout Christian super-character that was both admirable and complex.

 

BTW, the Islamic villain in Wild Cards is named "Nur-ah-Allah", the Light of Allah.

 

Wild Cards also had Reverend Leo Barnett. What was great about Barnett was that when you first hear of him (fundamentalist preacher who hates the Wild Card), you think he will be this archetypical religious wacko-villain, but he is a lot more complex (and even occasionaly sympathetic) than that. He is basically a nice guy who genuinely hates the sin but loves the sinner, even though he is kinda of an antagonist to most of the heroes, who are almost all liberals.