Dodgy area

[Sean Waters]

DCV levels with the area effect (hex) advantage. Hmmm...

 

So,assuming you bought this intriguing power, what would it do?

 

1. Make you harder to hit?

 

2. Make your hex harder to hit?

 

3. Make anything/anyone in your hex harder to hit?

 

4. Something else?

 

Why do it? Well,mainly #2 above,to stop those sneaky area effect (hex) and (explosion), and maybe even (AE area) wallahs getting you.

 

What do you think?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Dodgy area

 

This is probably on the wrong board...haven't used themin a while...

[CourtFool]

To Dodge or not to Dodge

 

I would think #3. It sounds suspicious to me though.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Dodgy area

 

I frankly don't think a combat skill level with area effect hex makes any sense.

 

Not all powers/skills/talents can combine with all advantages and disadvantages.

 

Area effect advantages generally don't mix with defenses, at least not without the usuable by/against/as attack advantages.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Dodgy area

 

For example.

 

Climbing, NO CONSCIOUS CONTROL

 

does that make any sense?

 

LOOK OUT, I COULD START CLIMBING AT ANY TIME!

[The Watcher]

Re: Dodgy area

 

For example.

 

Climbing, NO CONSCIOUS CONTROL

 

does that make any sense?

Hmmm, perhaps the character has no actual skill at climbing, but if driven to flee by something or enraged at something up a tree he's able to scramble up things very well due to the strong desire to do so.

[The Watcher]

Re: Dodgy area

 

Depending on the special effect, either 2 or 3 could be applicable. For exmaple:

 

2. A spatial distortion field which manipulates the relation of the hex in regards to the surrounding environment. Or maybe one that allows one to "move" a hex just enough to make it harder to attack.

 

3. Smoke or some form of sensory obscuration that makes it more difficult to target things in the hex.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Dodgy area

 

For example.

 

Climbing, NO CONSCIOUS CONTROL

 

does that make any sense?

 

I once knew a cat with climing NCC only for going up. We were thinking of changing the cats name to "How the blazes did you get up there."

 

Area dcv levels. I would think that w/o the useable by others they would only effect you and your hex. Of course I could be higher than a cat on this.

[JmOz]

Re: Dodgy area

 

This is best built as a CE

[Blue]

Re: Dodgy area

 

I was just thinking Change Environment was better and more appropriate assuming that you were trying to do #1 (Make tarets harder to hit). If you're trying to make the hex iteself harder to hit, that's a little bit trickier.

 

First off, skill levels apply to you or to your opponent, not to someone or something else your foe is targeting. So you might need something as elaborate as missile deflection, ranged to achieve #2 above.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

It would make the hex and anything in it harder to hit.

 

Combat Levels are already Constant (established this one a previously w/ Steve for purposes of getting it incorporated into Hero Designer).

 

However AoE is only applicable to attacks. So to do it, you would have to also apply UAA and target the affected hex.

 

+1 with DCV, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (12 Active Points)

 

If you wanted to do it at range, you would need the Ranged Advantage also.

 

+1 with DCV, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (15 Active Points)

 

Its also going to cost END, so if you want to get rid of that its another +1/2 for 0 END. And its not persistent, so if you want it to last thats another +1/2 again.

 

+1 with DCV, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (20 Active Points)

 

Arguably Persistent is used for defenses/passives and this is now technically an Attack, so Uncontrolled is probably a cleaner way to do it particularly since it requires a reasonably common turn off condition, which is a good idea to keep this power from becoming totally unbalancing:

 

+1 with DCV, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Ranged (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (20 Active Points)

 

So for 12, 15, or 20 points you could target a Hex or a person to anchor the effect on, and anything in the effected Hex would gain +1 DCV. For 12 points you could only affect your hex or an adjacent hex, for 15 you can do it at range, for 20 it is both 0 END and Uncontrolled.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

For example.

 

Climbing, NO CONSCIOUS CONTROL

 

does that make any sense?

Ill agree that it's unusual but:

 

It may not make sense, but that is not the same thing as it being illegal. A sufficiently creative player might indeed want an effect that required such a mechanic.

 

 

 

In this case Climbing full NCC is difficult to contemplate, but at the -1 level where the player can try to activate it and the GM decides if it works might be used for something, maybe a cursed Magic Item in a Fantasy Game for example.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

Here is the CSLs are Constant answer:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4286

[JMHammer]

Re: Dodgy area

 

TheRealLemming said:

DCV levels with the area effect (hex) advantage. Hmmm...

 

So,assuming you bought this intriguing power, what would it do?

 

1. Make you harder to hit?

 

2. Make your hex harder to hit?

 

3. Make anything/anyone in your hex harder to hit?

 

4. Something else?

 

Why do it? Well,mainly #2 above,to stop those sneaky area effect (hex) and (explosion), and maybe even (AE area) wallahs getting you.

 

What do you think?

I think that if you had a sit-down with your GM and said something to the effect of, "I want my character to be continuously spewing a smoke screen out of his ass. Probably it will make him and everything around him harder to target, but what effect do you think that would that have on combat and how should I build it?" and your GM came up with "#2" then go right ahead. (Although I doubt if any GM who isn't trying to get you into the sack would come up with that particular effect.) If you're just trying to find some way to screw attackers with Area Effect attacks and you'll come up with some (likely bogus) justification for it later, then pah-tooie.

 

Start with an effect/special effect, and then figure out how it should work from there. If you shop through the rule book there's no doubt you can come up with all sorts of things which are worth far more than one might infer from their point cost and which your GM should simply disallow straightaway.

 

John H

[Sean Waters]

Re: Dodgy area

 

Repulsion fields, displacement shields, whatever. It is the only way you can make a hex hard to target - can't see how you would do it with CE,especially if you were thinking of 4 or 5 DCV to make a hex realistically difficult to target.

 

Of course if there is a better way...

 

I do like the idea of useless advantages though - how about invisibility with invisible power effects, so that whilst they can't actually see you they can't see that you are invisible...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Dodgy area

 

The idea is that there is some sort of gravity lens around this particular character, that deflects things even before they get there, be they bullets, punches or energy blasts. AE Hex attacks are not that common in our games: explosions are more usuually preferred, especially by villains, and there is no real way in the rules to deflect such a variety of attacks with missile deflection, which is an 'active defence' in any event - this is meant to be a field that is on at all times.

 

The beauty of this is that the amount of deflection is directly tied to the skill of the attacker - someone with a high OCV will hit the hex anyway,a bit lower and you'll land nearby,as the amount you miss by (in hexes) is linked to the amount youfailed the roll by. Anyway,it doesn't stop a villain who get's smart targetting the hex next to you wuith an explosion...

 

It is not really mean to to act as a defence for others standing nearby, and certainly is not designed to assist villains who manage to grab you, so I'd have thought useable as an attack was unnecessary, maybe useable by others simultaneously, where the 'other' is your hex. You'll be telling me that I'll need to make it persistent too as the hex is not conscious, so 12 points a level. No END cost that I can see...

 

Mind you for what it is, that seems a bit expensive,look at it globally - how much more usefull is +4DCV and a DCV 7 hex...not enormously, but that will depend on the frequency of AE attacks in your game. I don't see it as munchkinism (mind you, munchkins never do), and it sorts out the joker with 10 DEX and grenades...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Dodgy area

 

It would make the hex and anything in it harder to hit.

 

However AoE is only applicable to attacks. So to do it, you would have to also apply UAA and target the affected hex.

 

 

I looked but couldn't see where it says AoE is only applicable to attacks. I mean,granted there are not going to be that many occasions where it isn't, but I don't think it needs to be.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

I looked but couldn't see where it says AoE is only applicable to attacks. I mean' date='granted there are not going to be that many occasions where it isn't, but I don't think it needs to be.[/quote']

I dont have my book handy since Im at work, but there are a number of Advantages that are only applicable to Attacks, like Autofire, AP, Penetrating, Explosion, and AoE.

 

I do know that its in HD as requiring it to be an Attack Power, because when I did the powers to post them earlier when I was still at home HD would only allow AoE after UAA was applied which jives with my memory of AoE being for Attack Powers.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Dodgy area

 

I don't know, AoE in particular can be used on any power that effects others. You could have Healing AoE, for instance, or Aid AoE.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

I don't know' date=' AoE in particular can be used on any power that effects others. You could have Healing AoE, for instance, or Aid AoE.[/quote']

Ill look it up when I get home.

[Kristopher]

Re: Dodgy area

 

There's always my old Chaos Zone concept, where all the hexes have Martial Dodge...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Dodgy area

 

Ah, here it it!

 

AE is applicable to any Power that affects a target's DCV (as listed in The Power Table, Hero System Fifth Edition page 87). Anything that already targets a hex is already AE. Other Powers are Self Only, so AE won't do anything for them; it will work like always, only affecting the character with the Power.

 

So basically, while it's technically valid, DCV Levels AE won't do anything more than plain DCV Levels.

 

Now, if you made those DCV Levels affect more than just Self... Putting UBO Simultaneously (+1/2) and AE: Radius will grant the bonus to anyone in the area, as long as they want to use it; a guy could just as easily just stand there and not make use of the bonus. Of those in the area had no choice but be harder to hit, you'd make it UAA (+1) and AE. Then even if they reduce their DCV to 0 through being Entangled, or just standing there, they'll still have the bonus.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

I looked but couldn't see where it says AoE is only applicable to attacks. I mean' date='granted there are not going to be that many occasions where it isn't, but I don't think it needs to be.[/quote']

Ok, to use AoE a Power needs to make an Attack Roll to take effect. Healing and Aid, which someone else noted as being legal for AoE but not being attacks, both require an Attack Roll vs the Target's DCV to take effect, and thus are legal candidates for AoE.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dodgy area

 

Ah, here it it!

 

AE is applicable to any Power that affects a target's DCV (as listed in The Power Table, Hero System Fifth Edition page 87). Anything that already targets a hex is already AE. Other Powers are Self Only, so AE won't do anything for them; it will work like always, only affecting the character with the Power.

 

So basically, while it's technically valid, DCV Levels AE won't do anything more than plain DCV Levels.

 

Now, if you made those DCV Levels affect more than just Self... Putting UBO Simultaneously (+1/2) and AE: Radius will grant the bonus to anyone in the area, as long as they want to use it; a guy could just as easily just stand there and not make use of the bonus. Of those in the area had no choice but be harder to hit, you'd make it UAA (+1) and AE. Then even if they reduce their DCV to 0 through being Entangled, or just standing there, they'll still have the bonus.

Thats what my previous write up above does. UAA unlocks AoE and allows the power to be used statically.

 

If you take it UBO then the person you lend it to has control of when to use the Power or not (and also when to relinquish it, see here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2851 ) which isnt the intent as I understand the orginal post.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Dodgy area

 

What I'm after is something that makes the character and the character's hex more difficult to hit. I'm not too bothered about other characters. The hex is not another charcter and doesn't get to decide not to accept the bonus,so I'm thinking that AT MOST you need UBO - you are not attacking the hex, that would be silly and require a new attack every time you moved. I'm still not convinced that even UBO should be necessary.

 

Now I'm completely with you on the AoE advantage saying you need to make an attack roll to hit the hex- but if it is no range then you hit the hex you are in, and this is no range, so no attack roll is necessary.

 

What I keep coming beack to when I think this one through is the cost/benefit dynamic - building it as a +1/2 advantage doesn't create a power that is excessively useful for the cost.

 

You could do it with Aid to add DCV to you, one hex AE (the hex has DCV so you should be OK), and it would effect the whole hex,you and everyone in it. You could probably get away with 'self only' -1/2 as you can not 'pass it on' - only people standing on your toes benefit. Aid doesn't cost END, so the cost would be the same, but the bookkeeping is more of a problem with the Aid option, and just feels messier. Oh and you'd probably need to make it constant to work properly,which makes it cost 13 points per 1d6 and it makes peopleyou are tyrying to punch harder to hit, which is silly too. Forget I mentioned it.