D&D 3 Conversions to Hero

[coach]

Hey Ya'll,

 

Does anybody know of any good info on converting D&D 3 characters and monsters to Hero System? If someone could recommend where much of this has already been done, that would be great!

 

Thanks!

[Old Man]

The Hero 5th Beastiary has most of the important monsters in it.

 

For the most part, convert using the equivalents for stats. For BODY use the D&D character's CON.

 

Try going from there.

[HeroGM]

Fantasy Hero 4th Ed had conversion notes for D&D 2nd to Hero. I've found they work well for conversions. Also if you look around the web for a website called DungeonHero it would help. The person there converted a TON of D&D stuff to Hero4. Not the same as five I know but it's a good starting point at least

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by ChaosDrgn

Fantasy Hero 4th Ed had conversion notes for D&D 2nd to Hero. I've found they work well for conversions. Also if you look around the web for a website called DungeonHero it would help. The person there converted a TON of D&D stuff to Hero4. Not the same as five I know but it's a good starting point at least

 

Sadly, Dungeon Hero seems to have disappeared - the existing link is dead.

 

OTOH, Michael Surbrook (author of Ninja HERO) has converted a number of classic D&D monsters to HERO System. I believe they're still under 4E rules, but they're not hard to update. And his work is quality.

 

You can find "Surbrook's Stuff" at http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/index/index.html . Click on "Character Archive", then on "Creatures from Myth and Legend".

 

Then check out the rest of the site; it's a grab-bag of goodies.

[John Desmarais]

Originally posted by ChaosDrgn

Fantasy Hero 4th Ed had conversion notes for D&D 2nd to Hero. I've found they work well for conversions. Also if you look around the web for a website called DungeonHero it would help. The person there converted a TON of D&D stuff to Hero4. Not the same as five I know but it's a good starting point at least

 

http://www.planetx.org/~joed/gaming/dh.html

 

John Desmarais

The Stuff Heroes Are Made Of

http://www.sysabend.org/champions

[Killer Shrike]

I did a 2nd edition AD&D to 4th edition HEROs conversion several years ago that saw a lot of play.

 

Its at (EDIT: ) http://www.FantasyHERO.com

 

I have taken a few passes at a 3e D&D to 5th HEROs, but nothing concrete as of yet. Recently I got to thinking about it again. The only real hold up is that the level structure of 3e D&D got flatened so that all classes have the same advancement per experience, which pretty much scraps my old conversion which was based on an AD&D Exp to HEROs points comparison. This enabled the Magic system to work, because higher level Mages had more XP than thier equal level brethren. This I was able to have everyone start off at the same baseline (125 pts IIRC) and then scale accordingly.

 

Now that a 15th level spellcaster has the same amount of Exp as a 15th level warrior, it becomes harder to balance the overhead of a spellcasting framework.

 

I have come up with a rough draft Active Points per spell level structure to be fitted into a VPP, but have not had the opportunity to flesh it out or test it.

 

There are also some incongruities in 3e D&D that when brought forward into HEROs costs a lot of points. The biggest offender I stumbled across was the Leadership feat. Characters with a high Cha and/or contributing factors can have a Cohort that is nearly as good as themselves. In the HERO System, buying a Follower that is only slightly less powerful than oneself is not inexpensive. Further, Leadership also provides a fair number of chumps as well. That one feat takes a ton of points to approximate in HEROs, but another feat like Weapon Focus is literally a direct map to a 2 pt +1 OCV with Weapon X CSL in HEROs. Also, Leadership can be taken multiple times.

 

I intend to run a HEROs based D&D esque game soon and need to stop procrastinating and get something done...

[Killer Shrike]

OK, here is the preliminary pass at a D&D 3e to 5th Ed HEROs conversion. This is slanted towards high fantasy (particularly at the higher end), as appropriate to the D&D Millieu. YMMV. Keep in mind this is an 'Alpha' version, untested and unpolished.

 

Starting off, XP to Points

 

There is one major factor which complicates doing a level to point conversion in 3e; namely the level stacking rules. Not all levels in D&D 3e are created equal, and there is no rule that consistently indicates at a global level which levels for a particular class are also-rans and which ones indicate measurable gains.

 

Many levels in many classes are pass-thrus; you have to take them to get to better abilities (class-features) only available at the higher levels. In HEROs this erratically results in some 'levels'' costing more in points than others depending on the classes in question, which makes a fixed ratio difficult to arrive at.

 

Part of this problem is the additional confusion introduced into a conversion effort by the multiclassing rules. A 3rd level character may have 1, 2, or 3 different classes. Futher most D&D 3e classes give thier biggest 'hit' at 1st level, granting the basic framework features of the class and usually at least one special ability which might be quite expensive to replicate in HEROs but which in D&D are not differentiated from a character that took 3 levels in the same class.

 

Thus the Fighter 1/Sorceror 1/Ranger 1 will probably point out much higher than the Fighter 3 or the Sorceror 3 or (almost certainly) the Ranger 3. In D&D this is theoretically balanced as an opportunity cost at later levels, offering the multiclasser early flexibility and scope but at the cost of the pure power a focused single-class character can hope to wield at higher level. The dedication shown by single-classing pays off later, assuming all classes are equal (sic-which we all know they arent really, but as a logical exercise indulge me ).

 

Prestige classes muddy this up even further.

 

{BTW: Dont get me wrong, IMO the new multiclassing rules were one of the best things in 3e as far as Im concerned, but they do make conversion more difficult. }

 

 

Also, the way the D&D 3e XP methodology is set up, characters tend to level FAST at the begining, and start slowing down around 5th or 6th level whereas in a point based system like HEROs growth tends to be slow and gradual but constant.

 

However, regardless of how fast or slow characters tend to level in D&D 3e relevant to thier current level in play, theoretically it supposedly takes 13.3 equal CR encounters to 'Level up'. Of course, 1 suicidal encounter significantly above the parties CR can see all the survivors level (and then some) in a single encounter and also, the definition of an encounter is a tad fuzzy (one DMs encounter is another DMs routine interaction) but for our purposes we will take the "13.3 Equal Encounters as Part of a Party of 4 Equal PCs" comcept as a constant measure of advancement in D&D 3e and try to find a parrallel in HEROs.

 

Following that logic, a 20th level character has seen approximately 250 equal challenge encounters as part of a party of 4 equal level PCs.

 

So, if you assume a constant 13.3 encounters per level-up across all levels, and further assume an average of 3.3 equal encounters per 6 hours of play (arbitrarily; works out to a level every 4 6-hour sessions on average, and most sessions go 6 to 8 hours IME, resulting in a level every 3 or 4 weeks of play on average), and you also assume that most HEROs sessions will see a character get 3 experience points on average, you can basically say 1 encounter = 1 HEROs xp.

 

Thus there is a solid correlation between Encounters and HEROs character points.

 

You might recall the 250 encounters measure mentioned above for a 20th level character. Well, 250 encounters = 250 points. 250 is a nice HERO-ish number, but 13.3 isnt. The HERO System likes increments of 5 best. Applying that, If we go with a series of 15 even /10 odd and start 1st level off at +10 experience points on top of whatever we decide is the starting point total, that works out to 250 points in the HERO System.

 

 

So all thats left is to determine a starting point level of our HEROs characters and then simply add 250 to the starting points to determine what a 20th level character should be and fill in the gaps between.

 

1st level D&D 3e characters tend to be a tad squishy, but taking a 1st level commoner as the base they are definitely beyond the bounds of the average man. I personally like 125 as a starting point as it is what I have used in the past and it usually gives enough points to round out a capable heroic character but not so many that said character is ready to charge out into the world without a care.

 

Further, since D&D is a Disadvantage-less system, and most characters coming in from D&D arent going to have much in-place to draw on aside from personality and background quirks to define Disadvantages in HEROs, I have found it convenient in the past to go with a lower than normal Disadvantage to base point ratio in the interests of expediency (but see below). Thus, I favor 75 Base points + 50 max Disadvantages to total up to 125.

 

Some players, whether vets to the HERO System, or more character oriented than most D&Ders, want to benefit from the richer character development offered by HEROs and want to take a full load of Disadvantages. Also, its handy to have a higher ceiling when building package deals. Therefore players can take up to a maximum of another 25 points in disadvantages if they are in Pacakage Deals for upto another 25 additional points at 1st level.

 

So if a character starts at 75 base, takes 50 Disadvantage points, and we add the +10 starting Experience to keep our 10/15 progression even that character will be 135 points. However, a starting character might range from 85 to 160 pts total depending on how Disadvantaged they are, which is a wide range but encourages players to use the Disadvantage system (an alien concept to many players if you are recruiting them from D&D 3e) and the use of package deals (which translates into campaign buy in typically).

 

 

Finally, as a character advances in D&D 3e he is more likely to pick up multiclass levels, including prestige classes, and to join organizations/groups (which also is often expressed as a prestige or class combo), so we need some wiggle room to make this work.

 

Most classes to include prestige classes will be organized into package deals any way for ease of use and conformity to some common theme. So, I suggest we allow additional optional Disadvantage points to be taken throughout character progression at stepped increments to facilitate switching into new 'prestige class' equivalents.

 

Nominally, I think at levels 4,8,12,16 and 20 a character may take up to 25 more points of Disadvantages for a yield in a like number of character points as long as those Disadvantages are taken as part of a Package Deal.

 

Thus at 20th level, a character which has taken all possible Disadvantages will be a 525 point character, whereas one who has taken the assumed minimum of 50 points of Disadvantages will be 375. To my mind this accurately captures the disparity in character effectiveness that can occur in D&D 3e depending on the leveling decisions made by thier players, even at the same exact levels. YMMV of course.

 

Without further ado, here is the Alpha Level to Points chart. Keep in mind that the idea isnt to strait jacket HEROs characters by imposing a level structure, but rather to provide a consistent measuring stick and to facilitate direct coversions from D&D 3e.

 

 

Level	D&D Xp (1000s)	HEROs Points	Optional Package Deal Disadvantages
1	0	135*	+25
2	1	150	0
3	3	160	0
4	6	175	+25
5	10	185	0
6	15	200	0
7	21	210	0
8	28	225	+25
9	36	235	0
10	45	250	0
11	55	260	0
12	66	275	+25
13	78	285	0
14	91	300	0
15	105	310	0
16	120	325	+25
17	136	335	0
18	153	350	0
19	171	360	0
20	190	375	+25
*75 Base + 50 Disadvantages + 10 Experience
Step = +15 even/ +10 odd, +25 Optional Disadvantages every 4 levels

 

 

 

OK, that was a lot of typing. More later, must go soak fingers in Palmolive

[coach]

Great!

 

Wow! That is sweet! I think it may overestimate a 1st level character a little, but other than that, that is a fantastic evaluation. I especially like the ability to kind of tell how many points a given level would be.

 

But, I think I may have mis-stated my question. Actually, looking back at it, I really did mis-state it. What I'm looking for is some website where I can just go and pick out conversions of D&D monsters to Hero. See what I've got is a Fantasy Hero campaign that kind of has a D&D-ish flavor to it. So, I might want to through in a Neo-Otyug or two.

 

But, wow, keep posting on what you're working on, that is so cool.

 

Thanks!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Great!

 

Originally posted by coach

Wow! That is sweet! I think it may overestimate a 1st level character a little, but other than that, that is a fantastic evaluation. I especially like the ability to kind of tell how many points a given level would be.

 

But, I think I may have mis-stated my question. Actually, looking back at it, I really did mis-state it. What I'm looking for is some website where I can just go and pick out conversions of D&D monsters to Hero. See what I've got is a Fantasy Hero campaign that kind of has a D&D-ish flavor to it. So, I might want to through in a Neo-Otyug or two.

 

But, wow, keep posting on what you're working on, that is so cool.

 

Thanks!

 

np

 

EDIT Here is a link to the new Conversion docs:

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/conversion3e.shtml

 

Should still be usable for most purposes, although thier power level will vary based on the point scale you went with.

[Guest Shadow Shulker]

Why convert to Hero? d20 is good enough. Besides, Steve Long converted many D&D monsters to Hero in Bestiary. Just wait for the volume 2.

[fauxgemini]

Touchy, touchy. I've watched you bad mouth HERO all night. You know D&D is just a rip of a Dying Earth right. Or that Gygax and crew just 'barrowed' some idea from Tolkien. Oh, and heaven forbid that anything out there be similar if not based on pre-existing concepts. Hell, TV does it all the time. I doubt there is a Hollywood producer out there with a creative cell in they're body. Get a life.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Shadow Shulker

Why convert to Hero? d20 is good enough. Besides, Steve Long converted many D&D monsters to Hero in Bestiary. Just wait for the volume 2.

Thanx for imposing your opinions upon me. If I wanted to continue to play in d20, I'm capable of such without need of your suggestion. If I considered that a worthwhile pursuit then I obviously wouldnt be posting material on this subject.

 

If you're not interested in posting helpful comments, then just dont post anything at all on the subject, please.

 

Also, who converted what from what else and for who? The inestimible E.G.G. 'converted' most of the basic fantasy RPG monsters from Tolkein and other literary sources, who in turn 'converted' most of them from older mythic sources, and who knows who our ancient forebearers copied from. Very little of anything in this industry is 'original'.

 

Ill pull out some specifics to make a point on the subject: D&D didnt invent either the concept of a 'dungeon' nor that of a 'dragon' for example. Doing your own spin on either of those can hardly be characterized as deriving directly from D&D, unless you imitate the (idiotic) chromatic/metallic/gem schtick which as far as I know is unique to D&D.

 

 

While you for some reason seem to have some personal issue with Steve Long (judging from your deleted post attacking him yesterday), I happen to hold him and the rest of DOJ in a rather high esteem. They are only human, but owing to thier saving of my favored game system and thier respectful, quality-conscience treament of the property since then has engendered in me a certain amount of gratitude. Your bashing of Steve or any of the other less visible members of DOJ is unlikely to meet with any sympathy from me.

 

You are welcome to your opinions of course, but you are also welcome to keep them to yourself.

 

For example, if you want to play d20, THEN GO PLAY D20 AND STOP MAKING NOISE ABOUT IT HERE. There are plenty of other venues for you to go talk about d20. Go to the EN Boards, or the WotC playpen and post to your hearts content.

 

This is the HERO Discussion Boards, namely the Fantasy HERO Forum. If you dont want to talk about the furthering of Fantasy HERO campaigns, then you are just taking up bandwith.

 

So, thanx again for your input. Its duly noted and you can move along now, your quest to post pointless arbitrary 'look at me, I have an opinion!' responses has been fulfilled.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.....

[tiger]

The reason to convert D&D or D20 is for those who want the known "feel" of the campaign and the monsters.

 

I have toyed several times with running a Forgotten Realms campaign when I start running my Fantasy Hero campaign.

I like the background material, NPCs and the places, Who don't love Undermountain

 

I just have no interest in the D20 system. I have a universal system I use, can you guess which one? I don't feel the need to learn a new one.

 

I'll simply convert 3E or 3.5E stuff too the Hero System. With posters here, like Killer Shrike, it won't be a major under taking. Several awesome threads have already been started and there are some nice links posted as well.