Team Tactics

[JmOz]

Okay My team got trounced, and trounced hard.

 

What I need is some basic tactics help here...

 

Characters:

 

Minotaur: A boulder Tossing Brick (Has a Greek MA Package as well to compensate for slightly lower Str). His ranged attack is slightly better than his melee

Ranged 15d6 EB; PD: 30 ED: 26, Dex 20, Speed 5

 

Marksman: An Archer, resident Skill Guru/Stealth guy

65 Point MP of 22 slots, PD 25, ED 25, Dex 29, Speed 6

 

Marvel Man: mentalist

60 Point Mental powers (including TK effects), Only Flyer, PD 20, ED 20, Dex 20, Ego 20, Speed 5

 

Bolt: A speedster

15d6 (Passing Strike), 30" Running, PD 25, ED 25 Dex 35, Speed 8

 

Cerebus: Hellhound, another brick with a wicked AF-3 HKA, of limited use

7d6 HKA AF-3, PD 30, ED 30, Dex 20, Speed 5

 

Some ideas of what we can do to be more effective would be appreciated

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Rule One: In an RPG, better one down than two hurt.

Gang tackle. The Archer and The Mentalist should both be able to set up 'one-two' punches. Either have one of them help Cerebus gack someone, and have the other help the other two smash twice for 15d6... or have the Archer set someone up for everyone to gang tackle (assuming SOME kind of Flash/Darkness/Transparent Entangle arrow...)

 

Rule Two: Create a Diversion. Have everyone wait until Cerebus hits melee range before attacking. He can soak better than anyone else... and 7d6 AF 3 KA goes GINSU on anyone foolish enough to stand in his way... So the rest of you don't get hurt.

 

Rule Three: If all else fails, be a bastard. Have the flyer pick everyone up and stay out of harms way.

[JmOz]

Re: Team Tactics

 

With 22 slots, yes I have flash, darkness, and entangles that allow "normal" attacks through (Non Killing)

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Definitely gang up. Bolt and Marksman can get people to 1/2 DCV, Marvel Man TK's the victim over to where Minotaur and Cerberus are waiting to finish them off.

 

Have Marvel Man go with low-level effects - "Attack Bolt" should be an easy mind control command (wanted to do anyway) for villains. Meanwhile, Bolt goes on full dodge/defense mode and sucks phases off the villains while they waste shots trying to hit DCV 15+ guy.

 

Or, mental illusion that Bolt is Cerberus, and vice-versa. When "Cerberus" suddenly half-moves 15" towards the villain and gets ready to attack, they'll likely do whatever they can to avoid it. Then the real Cerberus unloads on someone else.

 

Mental illusion that Minotaur throws a buick at X. After they dive for cover, cream them.

 

Have Bolt work as a "spoiler" - be around, and mainly work to save teammates and burn villain phases. Zip over and move Marksman out of the way of an incoming attack, etc.

[Guest Soulcatcher]

Re: Team Tactics

 

You have had some good suggestions so far.

 

Here are some general suggestions:

 

In general, a team should try to act like a team. It doesn't have to be perfect coordination. What you have to avoid is everyone acting as an individual.

 

Having some sort of plan ahead of time is good if it is possible.

 

You also have to be able to adjust strategies on the fly, as necessary.

 

Concentrating as much as possible, or necessary, on one opponent at a time is critical. Do not split into one on one battles. By taking down the first opponent you shift the balance of power in the conflict. At some point in the battle, it will have shifted enough that you wont necessarily have to concentrate your attacks.

 

Sometimes GMs set up battles where you are meant to be trounced. What is important then is to learn the lesson the GM wants to give you about the opposition and how you need to approach the problem.

[The Mad GM]

Re: Team Tactics

 

While the concentration advice is very sound, it is a little out of genre.

 

Perhaps team manuevers, like Minotaur tossing Cerebus at an opponent for a move through/HKA attack (he looks like he can take some damage from the landing). Cannon-ball special (oops, copyright Marvel Enterprises )

 

Or Marvel Man controlling/TKing enemies to line up so Bolt can 'run the line' with a multiple passing strike move-by.

 

Or Marksman doing a takes-no-damage entangle on a target who can then serve as ammo for Minotaur to throw at another target (works well if the entanglee is someone Minotaur would normally have trouble hitting).

 

Start out with the high DCV character drawing fire, distracting the enemies for a suprise from behind.

 

These are just the ones that popped to mind, surely there are others.

[Intrope]

Re: Team Tactics

 

So far, lots of good ideas--but I'll throw on some more!

 

Marvel Man should try mentally commanding enemies to do plausible, time-wasting things in combat (like, you're too far from the battle to use your blast--get closer! and find some cover). Anything that wastes multiple enemy phases is good (assuming the enemy doesn't greatly outnumber you).

 

It sounds like Cereberus has a powerful but underutilized AE attack--Bolt and Marvel Man could probably help (MM by 'repositioning' orders or TK, Bolt by picking his knockback direction carefully).

 

Does your GM allow Rapid-fire? if so, then Marksman might want to use any AoE nuisance attacks via rapid fire (darkness all over the place!)

 

Another thought: against flying opponents (especially high-DCV ones), a 6d6 AoE EB is potentially very valuable: one character (presumably Marksman) uses the AoE EB, which basically guarantees knockback or knockdown on a flyer--setting up an easy shot for Minotaur's Boulder, and costing the opponent a half-phase in any case.

 

Along the same lines: Bolt gets lots of attacks (and apparently a high OCV), and will almost certainly knockback targets. If he knocks a target back, one of the other characters should try to follow-up with a hit on the half-DCV target unless he's already unconcious. Bolt should naturally try to do KB towards the others, rather than away.

[Silbeg]

Re: Team Tactics

 

First off, I have to say "Wow" to the apparent power level in your game. 7d6 HKA? And with AF? Wowsers... wouldn't want to face that guy...

 

I would probably have Marvel Man keep his range up, as I would assume he is the most fragile of the group. In any event, he won't need to be close to be effective with his powers. With Mental Illusions, he could take opponents out of the battle (or better yet, give the illusion that an opponent and team mate have switched place, so the enemy attacks the wrong target).

 

Bolt is probably the best character to handle the logistics... if there is am innocent, or whatever, that the team needs to get out of there, fast, it would be him. Otherwise, keep up his speed, and keep pounding. Against agents he should try multiple move-bys.

 

The best synergy will come with the bricks (duh!)... they should try and take out the enemies that Bolt will knock down (given that he uses martial arts, there are no guarantees, though)... same goes for Marksman...

 

Probably nothing you hadn't thought about... of course, with characters like those, there is perhaps a lesser demand for good teamwork? The DCs in my game run between 10-13, with one character not even having an damage inducing power!

 

See the North Force Home Page for the characters in my game!

[JmOz]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Just to clarify: Cerebus only has the endurance to pull off the AF attack twice, maybe three times if he is lucky (with a recovery, and no other actions...), and then he is out of End, so in a way it is a "Finishing Move". Normaly he is throwing around a 15 DC attack (Headbutts)

 

Keep the sugestions coming

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Just to clarify: Cerebus only has the endurance to pull off the AF attack twice, maybe three times if he is lucky (with a recovery, and no other actions...), and then he is out of End, so in a way it is a "Finishing Move". Normaly he is throwing around a 15 DC attack (Headbutts)

 

Keep the sugestions coming

 

Well, once or twice should be more than enough... I mean, mostly, it should be a one (3) shot kill... I think tactics should largely go 'throw/trip/blind... hit with Cerebus'.

 

Have TK guy move him into combat range if you must... he's a Sledgehammer!

[Trebuchet]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Never let a team member who is Stunned or KO'd get hit again. If such a character gets hit again they'll be out of the fight for good. Either let one of the bricks stand over him to protect him or (better) have Bolt or your TK guy get him out of there until he's recovered.

 

I've lost count of how many times one or more of our teammates have gone down; only to reenter the fight after a Recovery or two. PCs have broken off a winning individual fight to protect a fallen comrade. Protecting our own is one of the factors that makes MidGuard a team, and it's enabled us to defeat very powerful villain teams such as Eurostar.

[levi]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Who did the trouncing and how?

[JmOz]

Re: Team Tactics

 

evil other dimensional versions of ourselves or former teammates:

 

Longbow: Femm fatale archer, magical bow

 

Labrynth: Minotaur, but more beastral

 

Enigma: A PSI who can turn invisible

 

*****: Can't remember what the GM called the guy with the guns

 

Hoc****: A Flesh Golem with weird powers (Nastier than it sounds)

[JmOz]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Here is a list of Manuvers I have come up with i'll be renaming them, but the manuvers should be sound

 

Gift-wrapping: Using Grabs, Flashes, Entangles, etc… to make it easier to hit the opponent named

Ex. “Minotaur Gift-wrap the Giant for Boltâ€: Minotaur grabs the Giant and Bolt does a Move Through on him

 

Deliver: Throw to striking range

“Marvel Man, deliver Minotaur to Lazerâ€: Marvel Man Throws Minotaur (probably with TK) to Lazer

 

Express Delivery: Throw named individual into named target

Ex: “Marvel Man, express delivery Minotaur to Lazerâ€: Marvel Man Throws Minotaur (probably with TK) into Lazer “fastball Specialâ€

 

X is the Birthday Boy/Girl/Thing: Everyone gangs up on X

 

It’s A Party: Switch Opponents

 

Party Crashers: New Enemies/Enemies in Hidden positions

 

It’s been Fun: Strategic Withdrawal (cover each others escape)

 

X, Y’s drunk: Y covers X until he is healed

 

X your DD for Y: X gets Y out of the fight

 

X Dance with Y: X engages Y in fight

 

Mingle: Everyone chooses an opponent

 

Hide & Seek We’re (or X is) it: Use enhanced senses (Smell, Mind Scan, Nightvision, etc) to find hidden opponents

 

Hide & Seek: Their (He/She/Its) It: Find Hiding Holes

 

Civilians: get the civilians out of the way/to safety/protect them

[NecroBob]

Re: Team Tactics

 

This be cerebus's player. I know I'm the beat stick of this group.

 

How the trouncing occured...

 

Basically they used tactics we as always used brute force in hopes of success. I in part think our gm takes much joy in never making a fight that easy...*flashback to fight with wereboars where it was a final one on one with Cerebus and a pig cop deciding the winner.*

 

Marksman- Had the Homoluncus [flying blaster] concentrate some fire on him, had himself picked up and tossed by Labryinth, and had Longbow spell away all his senses.

 

Bolt- She was removed by the invisible Enigma, who mindcontrolled her. Thankfully he never got the chance to let Labryinth haymaker her as she stood politely by, though unfortunately she was still used against her teammates.

 

Marvel Man- Didn't take much damage till Marksman pointed him out as the resident Psion, then Enigma had Bolt kick him to the curb. Thankfully he'd already become MVP by using a mental illusion on Labryinth [We are your teammates and your teammates are us] which also provided the obvious turning point. It was also nice to see his player prove especially useful for once.

 

Minotaur- Took fire from Homoluncus and maybe a blow from Labryinth, bad rolls with the rock throwing so he couldn't do much.

 

Cerebus- Chipped my teeth finding out Labryinth had 75% DR and then got a delivery of holy silver rounds from the gun nut, and couldn't manage to bit the flying blaster. Pretty much proved a poor beat stick cause I couldn't hit anything. Looks like I'll have to use some of my exp and take much needed combat levels.

 

Part of the problem was that a few of our members [Marvel and Bolt] didn't have Guardians battle language so we would literally have to telegraph every plan to the enemy, which happened twice since Marvel couldn't warn Marksman about possible snipers effectively and Marksman had to shout "Find their psion" to Marvel.

 

It was a painful lesson, but it looks like we've limped away with some ideas.

 

Marksman don't forget,

 

CHOPPER 4- Take out enemy vehicles.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Or' date=' mental illusion that Bolt is Cerberus, and vice-versa. When "Cerberus" suddenly half-moves 15" towards the villain and gets ready to attack, they'll likely do whatever they can to avoid it. Then the real Cerberus unloads on someone else.[/quote']

 

Mental Illusions that friends are enemies and enemies are friends (+20 effect) is remarkably effective. Their team has one lkess member, and yours has one more, until the effect wears off.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Team Tactics

 

7d6 KA AE on the invisible mentalist probably removes that nuisance from the fight, if you can get a bead on approximate location. That's the one I'd be scared of.

 

I'd also leave Labyrinth for last - with 75% damage reduction, getting him KO'd will take some doing, so focus on the soft targets until you can gang up on the hard case.

[JmOz]

Re: Team Tactics

 

It's a 7d6 Auto Fire 3, not Area Effect...

 

The best AE is probably an 8d6 EB Explosion

[Sean Waters]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Well, if you can't take them in a fair fight, you need to cheat, or at least ambush. you'll need to lure them to you or find where they are holed up. I'd be inclined to agree thatthe first target would have to be the invisible mentalist. Presumably doesn't spend all the time invisible, and a good chance that, relying on invisibility, normal defences not too hot so maybe your archer, the stealth specialist could take him out as combat starts. If you can't do that try your own mentalist (are his mental senses targeting?) to locate and maybe try a mental illusion that the evil illusionist is invisible (which should be a low value one - it works with expectations), then hit the visible mentalist with a couple of hard physical attacks, coordinated. Marksman and Bolt, perhaps?

 

Use Cerebus and Minotaur to distract the rest of the team, then take them out in order of dangerousness. Your mentalist can probably deal with Labrynth, unless he has a berserker's immunity to mind powers, or better yet turn him against the archer - suprise attacks get extra OCV and the archer's main defence is probably high DCV. MI attacks that confuse friends and enemies are particularly effective against evil duplicates as there are similarities anyway.

 

Who caused most damage last time and how?

[NecroBob]

Re: Team Tactics

 

For clarification, the evil twins are back in their own dimension and perhaps gone for good...dun dun dunn. So we aren't actively planning what to do against them next time, but planning for when we end up fighting another villian team.

 

Combat started with Enigma doing his vanishing act much to Marksman dismay, he was planning on taking him out. After dealing what appeared the more obvious threats, Marvelman got the very verbal and obvious find the invisible guy statement. Bolt was still at the time mindcontrolled by said mentalist and Marvelman was taken out by the speedster.

 

Labryinth was not immune to mental illusions, Marvelman proved useful for once [he's a novice hero and he's player is known for not thinking things through. His other character once was in the position of comtemplating a fire fight with Prof. Muerto. His character was pretty much still the 350pnt starter mage at that time.]Turning the juggernaut against his teammates. Took out their archer and their flying blaster pretty much on his own.

 

It would be hard to point out who dealt out the most damage. Labryinth is the straight out obvious brick that wouldn't go down easy. We now are aware that Marvelman ego blasting him or a heavy concentrated attack by the entire team would be required to take him down.

 

I think Homoluncus the flying flesh golem with his multitude of special blasts was a pretty decent threat when it came to dishing out pain upon us. Softened a few of us up for his teammates without taking any flak at all until the end of the fight.

 

Longbow pretty much went after Marksman and had several of her teammates helping [Labryinth and Homoluncus] so our poor unofficial leader got very smacked around.

 

Enigma, despite being the invisible mentalist the only thing he did was mind control Bolt and she only proved useful for an attack on a fellow teammate. Though if he hadn't appeared and asked to parley the remainder of our group would have had to face the invisible threat and the very visible Labryinth. Thankfully we never got to see what else he could pull.

 

The gun nut, no I don't know his name either, proved bothersome to a recovering Marksman as he let loose with two uzis, and particularly painful to me with the holy silver shots. Besides his large arsenal of guns he had nothing really going for him. My dice just failed to roll well...and after they opened up with a 3 on Labryinth to hit...

[JmOz]

Re: Team Tactics

 

It should be mentioned that I brought the Uzi attack upon myself by knocking the two "Hit cerebus in the Vulnerability" guns out of his hands with an AF Ranged Disarm

[Brandi]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Cannon-ball special (oops' date=' copyright Marvel Enterprises )[/quote']

 

Marvel calls it the Fastball Special, actually, so Cannonball is okay.

 

Or, given the pre-Hugh Jackman design of Wolverine, dwarf tossing.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Team Tactics

 

Grab (TK or otherwise) + Ranged Called Shot Head = unconscious opponent (assuming you're using called shots)

 

Blinded Bad Guy + Ranged Called Shot Head = equally unconscious opponent

 

A good Martial Artist with a high OCV and a good Brick with a competent grab make an awesome duo against just about any villain. Martial Artist holds action to match Bricks Speed - then POW! - Brick grabs/MA Called Shot Head (Bonuses in OCV both). That's x5 stun to whomever's head was on the wrong side of the Martial Artist's boot. "Boot to the head!"

 

These types of attacks work wonderfully on prone opponents as well. If you can lay someone out, don't let them up. If you have AE and can make someone choose to take it or Dive for Cover (leaving them prone) take the shot, then... hit them while they're down!

 

Bricks should never hit someone with their fists. Use BIG stuff to get bonuses to hit or maybe even Area of Effect cosmetics. (Work your GM!) The environment is a Brick's best friend! - At times this goes for TKers as well.

 

I agree with almost everyone else. They call it teamwork so team up against the bad guys (if they are dumb enough to allow it and aren't doing the same thing to you!!!)

 

Of course, this throws out the idea of sticking to a character concept that doesn't incorporate hard core fighting. Its funny, we rarely do these types of maneuvers in our game because the players are too busy playing their characters rather than trying to find the most brutal and fastest way to win.

 

However, we did use them with great success against a rival Champions group when we went up against them in a "Mistaken Identity" scenario where all we had were players (14 of us in fact - 6 on 8) Needless to say each team was playing to win for bragging rights... and here I am bragging.