VPPs: Your experiences

[Gary]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Good stuff, Gary! I may have to borrow this. One of my PCs is all about this.

 

John

 

 

Thanks.

 

I can report that in actual gameplay, it balances out very well. The costs seem to match the value of what you get without the abusiveness of a skills pool.

 

You can also probably have a version of Worldly and Universal Well Connected, but the campaign I'm in has the GM assigning all contacts and favors. The PCs don't have to purchase any, but must simply roleplay well to get one.

[Sketchpad]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

On a personal note, my regular players are adults, and I've been GMing for over twenty years. With that group I'm not worried about a VPP derailing a game.

 

In a pick up game, a convention game, or with players I didn't know, I'm more cautious about allowing VPPs, and about what type of VPP I'll let pass.

Amen to that

[Cheiro]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Great topic. I think in a regular game with players (and GM) you're familiar with it can be done effectively and add a lot to the story. Overshadowing another character's specialty is not something that is done among good players with a history together.

The versatility of a VPP certainly can be abused by players IF given the chance. I think it comes down to all involved recognizing that just beacause a character with a VPP CAN do something doesn't mean it SHOULD be done.

When playing a character with a VPP, I will typically have a couple of options that I present to the group (players and GM) and solicit feedback as to what my character should, and within the context of saying in character, would do.

Taking cues as to how the GM and players reacts to different suggestions frequently leads me to a conclusion that allows my character to be effective

(while staying true to the character's motivations), while not destroying a carefully crafted scenario the GM has put together.

I guess it just comes down to perception. I don't view the game as Player vs.

GM, or Player vs. Player. I feel like the GM has taken the time and effort to craft a story for my (and other players) benefit and want to contribute rather than destroy.

That's not to say I'm not for complicating things sometimes. Complicating, not destroying. I have no problem with a GM telling me that something I'm considering is no good. And that's the beauty of a VPP-there's a lot of other options.

GMing is tough. See the Murphy's Laws of GMing thread if you haven't checked it out. There's almost no way for a GM to anticipate every possible reaction by every character. So throwing the versatility of a VPP in the mix among a couple (or several) of the characters makes that task even tougher.

Doing things that undermine the GM's scenarios, even if legal, will lead to oversimplistic and repetitive stories. The GM will lose the desire to do something different or unique if it keeps getting shut down because of a character's VPP.

That's my take.

[Guest rbezold]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

For what its worth:

 

About 15 years ago I was a player in a game in Melbourne Australia. There was another player who had a character called Darklord. Both player and character were obnoxiously pompous. Darklord had a _long_ multipower that the GM was starting to feel was abusive. I made a suggestion to him: MAKE Darklord take a VPP. The rationale was this: Darklords magic at this point was anything he wanted without needing to wait or roll for it. OK, fine. His magic VPP has those advantages, but the total real cost of the VPP cannot exceed campaign limits. In this case, the active point limit was 75, so Darklord wound up with a 40pt VPP. He was not happy

 

I have no problem with VPP in my games, I just remind players that the control cost counts towards the point limit. Abusive players tend to run screaming out the door when they hear that one.

[Eosin]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

IME, there are two pitfalls to VPPs.

 

1. People who either don't know the game or have difficulty making decisions when presented with multiple options trying to run them.

 

2. Exceedingly efficient players running VPPs tend to overshadow other players.

 

I allow VPPs in my games but with the basic requirement that all slots are predifined. By all slots, I mean you have a standard attack, defense, and misc stuff predefined but if the situations warrants it I will allow creation on the fly for unique events like --- "Gee, I never thought to buy LS usable by others so that I could take my team into space but my pawer concept does revolve around forcefields."

 

The worst for me is when people buy cheesey powers within a gross pool.

Example:

DM: Granite man stands before the team and realizing that he is about to enter combat he summons the rock of the earth to protect him.

 

VPP Player: I am gonna hit him with a linked attack - tunneling and a low dice autofire killing attack. The tunneling should shuck him out the "earth armor" then he won't have any DEF to resist the KA.

[Lightray]

VPP Player: I am gonna hit him with a linked attack - tunneling and a low dice autofire killing attack. The tunneling should shuck him out the "earth armor" then he won't have any DEF to resist the KA.

bah. Just because your power is in a VPP doesn't make it do stuff it doesn't do. And Tunneling gets through barriers -- unless Granite Man armored up by Entangling himself, all VPP Boy did was create a GM Mocks Me For Next Phase power in his VPP.

 

I welcome that kind of abusive power in my games. ('cause normally it's the other way 'round)

[Tom Carman]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

"With great power comes great responsibility." So if the player is irresponsible, don't allow them that sort of power. My characters are usually the ones with the VPP, but GM doesn't bug me because I'm pretty circumspect about using them.

 

Example: the gadgeteer - high INT, 1-2 universal skill levels, Scientist, and a raft of science skills; must invent a gadget to use it. Usually starts an adventure using a gadget weapon with Charges; any rebuilds of that weapon have the same AP, and Charges (spent and unused) carry over - use up all the Charges and the RP of the weapon is "locked out" until he can get new supplies. New gadgets must be within his science skill set, and buildable with the limited kit of components he carries plus whatever can be reasonably added from the immediate environment (fighting in a junkyard can be fun).

 

Example: credit-card-at-the sporting-goods-store. All VPP items must be real-life commercial products, and reasonably within your budget. Real-world limitations like waiting periods for guns will apply. Proximity to appropriate stores and several hours of shopping time are required.

[Chuckg]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Example: credit-card-at-the sporting-goods-store. All VPP items must be real-life commercial products' date=' and reasonably within your budget. Real-world limitations like waiting periods for guns will apply. Proximity to appropriate stores and several hours of shopping time are required.[/quote']

 

A character in the campaign I currently play in, New Sentinels, has precisely this -- "Shopping Pool".

 

Of course, when you're a multibillionaire with Contacts, your available list of 'stuff I can buy with money' goes on up to things like NASA-issue space suits, Psi-Tech mental defense foci, and customized Ferraris.

 

But that's why the limitations on his VPP are a little smaller than the limits usually found on a Gadget Pool, as he not only has a wider range of kewl stuff, but he can change point allocations more easily. (He still has to leave combat in order to go fetch one during a fight, but when you have MegaScale Teleport, zipping back to your Warp-Cave to grab something and then getting back into the fight takes, oh, 3 Phases tops.)

[zornwil]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Heh. I've often played with the idea that I have to know the player for a bit and be able to trust them with a power pool. I've just recently started using a Power Pool with my character in zornwil's game. So far, I have not abused his trust.

 

edit: Having just read LM's last post, we seem to have been on the same path.

There's a few VPPs running around, from a small gadget-based one for Laughton to Sammy and Spectrum (lemming's character). Seems pretty controlled, people seem reasonably geared to SFX. Interestingly, Sammy changed from an MP to a VPP as his XP count increased, while when Troll reorganized into Nexus he dropped his two VPPs and consolidated into an MP.

[CBikle]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Anyone ever run a convention game and have a PC with a VPP ?

 

How'd it work out ?

[Red Knight]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

OK..I have posted another thread in which I created a Green Lantern-esque character. I won't bore you with the details... other than to say that I use Power Pool.

Even though I realize that this is a thread about VPP's, I just thought that I would add my two-cents. I played around with different ways to create the Green Lantern feel. I tried the multi-power route and found that the mutlipower became rather lengthy so I settled on a VPP. The ironic thing is that all I used the VPP for was to provide the power for a set number of abilities. I realized that I had a MPP labeled as a VPP.

 

I am in the process of modifying the character to more accurately represent what I want to do...

Under the new MPP design I will have eight powers under the MPP. I created a EC to cover the other "Lantern" effects that are common... IE Life Support and Armor. This allows a feel, that for me, seems to fit the character concept I had. I threw on VARIABLE EFFECT to represent the different "looks" of the powers. It was Shakespeare who wrote, "A rose by any other name...". In one of the Green Lantern Comic Book issues, Klye Rayner actually states that the power is the same only the way it is presented changes.

 

What does all this mean??? I think that true VPP's are difficult to use and don't always fit. It would be easy to make a character with a VPP and call them Green Lantern or whatever else you think of. I would be interested to see if anybody else built a "Green Lantern" and how they did it.

[OddHat]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

I would be interested to see if anybody else built a "Green Lantern" and how they did it.

 

My standard Hero (350 point) and galactic level (750 point) versions of a Green Lantern tribute ("the Light") can be found through the links both to the web page and thread in my sig. There is also the JLA Animated Characters thread with the animated GL. As to how you simulate a GL type mechanically, that's really up to the player and the GM. An EC plus a MP and a small VPP or a high Power skill would probably be the most point efficient.

[D?M]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Had a player once in my group, I wasnt DMing, pretty cool guy.

Outside of the RPG sessions, he had no life...spent most of his time building spells, manuevers and such for his characters. Might say he loved to crunch stuff and go for the loopholes.

Every character had a VPP.

 

A Bruce Lee-type master who disappeared from the public world, taught his bastard son all of his knowledge. Master of Martial Arts had himself a 10-20 pt VPP of techniques.

 

Mundane doctor finds a sacred book, giving its holder/protector the knowledge of all things past. Had himself clairsentience with a book focus, but also a VPP of magic spells.

 

Vigilante based or almost a complete copy of the Blue Moon Killer, VPP of weapons and gear.

 

Macgyver-type, skilled in many things and more, carried a VPP for gadgets and stuff.

 

See a pattern?

Other than creating these monsters, he never abused them. Thats where I believe is the GM's call on VPPs.

 

I attempted to create a mage once with a VPP but the GM turned me down, stating two VPP characters was too much. Further stated, he once played a VPP character and found it to be so easy to abuse it.

Hence, no VPP.

[Red Knight]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

I just had an interesting idea for a Limiter that could be added to a "Green Lantern-esque" VPP..

 

The Active cost of the powers could not be greater than the wielders total ability to use the power....

 

The Active cost of a power in the VPP could not exceed the total of WIILL + SKILL (Power Manipulation or something). This would represent that you may have the galaxy's most powerful weapon but that it is only as good as the willpower behind it.

[D?M]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Draconia was her name.

Based on the Green Lantern design of some cosmic powered item giving the bearer vast powers.

In this case, guardians were entrusted with harnessing powers of their benefactor (a trapped Warp Dragon, a cosmic-level beast), and using them to protect their respective territories.

Of course, the enemies of the Dragon, the ones who entrapped the benevolent beast, considered all disciples of the beast to be enemies.

 

VPP and Multipower with a Obvious focus.

Did not take the Independent focus limitation, hated to think she was nothing if the ring was confiscated.

If the focus was nabbed, she could still use some of the powers but they cost a lot more END to use.

[Red Knight]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

Did not take the Independent focus limitation, hated to think she was nothing if the ring was confiscated.

If the focus was nabbed, she could still use some of the powers but they cost a lot more END to use.

 

That's an interesting twist... how did you work out the limiters?? So you made the focus (ring) a booster of sorts??

 

The only way I can think of doing it would be to use the Adder for Double END and then tack on only when "Ring" is not persent... Am I close??

 

I really like the idea....

[OddHat]

Re: VPPs: Your experiences

 

That's an interesting twist... how did you work out the limiters?? So you made the focus (ring) a booster of sorts??

 

The only way I can think of doing it would be to use the Adder for Double END and then tack on only when "Ring" is not persent... Am I close??

 

I really like the idea....

 

One way to do it: take a variable limitation on all powers boosted by the ring, defined as either OIF:Ring or Double End Cost. With XP or by conception, the character could also buy 0 End as a naked advantage on multiple powers, and then use the Ring as a Focus limit on that 0 End advantage.