nexus Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I've heard of this a few places, but could someone give a rundown of what it is and how it works? I've heard its a good method of simulating Nigh Invulnerable Characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Basically 3/4 damage reduction plus absorbtion that feeds into Stun, Body, and itself. Add armor and a reasonable Con and it takes many, many little attacks in a short period of time to take you down, or one really huge one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense White Knight Defense 37 Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points) 60 Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% 60 Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% 27 Absorption 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points) (physical, BODY, STUN, END, Absorption Cap), [four powers] simultaneously (+1) (40 Active Points); Only Restores To Starting Values (-1/2) 27 Absorption 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points) (energy, BODY, STUN, END, Absorption Cap), [four powers] simultaneously (+1) (40 Active Points); Only Restores To Starting Values (-1/2) Total: 201 Points (Borrowed from one of Moody Loner's Posts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense More generally, its the combo of Damage Reduction and Absorbtion, with the Absorbtion feeding into Stun and/or Body. Its an expensive combo to achieve worthwhile levels of results, unless you limit it in some way. The benefit?? Unlike large amounts of normal defenses, its extremely difficult to bypass. AP, NND, and AVLD all are of minimal benefit, since they only effect the relatively small amount of actual Defense. Penetrating, likewise, gets beaten by the Absorbtion, making cheap Pen attacks ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense White Knight Defense 37 Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points) 60 Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% 60 Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% 27 Absorption 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points) (physical, BODY, STUN, END, Absorption Cap), [four powers] simultaneously (+1) (40 Active Points); Only Restores To Starting Values (-1/2) 27 Absorption 4d6 (standard effect: 12 points) (energy, BODY, STUN, END, Absorption Cap), [four powers] simultaneously (+1) (40 Active Points); Only Restores To Starting Values (-1/2) Total: 201 Points (Borrowed from one of Moody Loner's Posts) That's a neat little chunk of change in standard game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Its not from a standard game. The character that has it, Horus-Re, from my New Sentinels campaign was built on 800 points to begin with. A similar, albeit more limited, version exists on the canon character Quasar, who is himself 630 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Its not from a standard game. The character that has it, Horus-Re, from my New Sentinels campaign was built on 800 points to begin with. A similar, albeit more limited, version exists on the canon character Quasar, who is himself 630 points. You can also slap a -1/2 or more limit on it fairly easilly, but yes, in a 350 point game it's a major chunk of points, and should be. I would probably ony allow one character in a campaign to have something like this (and his Evil Duplicate), but it's a nice piece of mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense It is a nice trick, that'll I'll agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Actually,if I remember how Absorbtion functions, without the appropriate Power Advantage,it won't absorb STUN-only attacks.Thus standard NND's & AVLDs would be one of the best ways to damage such a character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Absorption can absorb from STUN-only attacks depending on special effect and DM's discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Definitely expensive but fun. One of my Silver Knights, Nova, has relatively low defenses with Damage Reduction 50% (Energy/Physical, Resistant) to simulate someone who can take a beating but keep coming back again and again. I can imagine her getting hurt if a thug surprises her with a solid whack to the back of the head with a blackjack but also able to jump back into the fight if she gets tagged by the enemy brick. It's kinda wierd but it helps make a character really resilent without being invulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense For the record, this construction has been used in an official 5e Champions product -- from the UNTIL sourcebook, the character Quasar has his nigh-invulnerability to all energy attacks build on exactly this model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense I don't think anyone (in this thread) has questioned the legality of the build. I would restrict its use a bit in most of my campaigns, but I can easilly see campaigns where this would be a great choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Autofire attacks tend to swamp that build--take 10d6, hitting five times--that's 30 stun after reduction, minus about 14 stun due to absorption, meaning 16 stun gets past those defense, which cost 100 points per type. If you go at 150 active points,20d6 AF5,that's 75 stun after reduction, minus 14 stun due to absorption, for 61 stun past defenses. or if you only hit twice, still a respectable 16 stun after defenses and absorption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Thats assuming you actually hit with most of the AF attacks, though. Unless the attack has a considerable number of levels tagged to it, or the Accurate advantage, I don't think your going to get that that often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Thats assuming you actually hit with most of the AF attacks' date=' though. Unless the attack has a considerable number of levels tagged to it, or the Accurate advantage, I don't think your going to get that that often.[/quote'] we're talking about a brick, right? a "five-team" or "eight-team" of heavy agents armed with said 10d6 or 12d6 or even 14d6 AF blasters could hit several times in one phase. Unless the brick's ranged DCV is 15+ of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Actually, looking at how Adjustment Powers to STUN and BODY work in 5e revised, there seems little point to the White Knight Defense any longer. Which means Quasar needs a revamp. Horus-Re might as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Loner Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Yep, a brick. Yes, Autofire is going to be a problem. Particularly as the brick in question is 350 points, so the DCV sucks. It's not Invulnerability, but he should be able to go toe-to-toe with surprisingly powerful opponents, which is all I'm looking for, at least until he has a few exp under his belt. He doesn't have a lot of points to spend on anything else, but that fits the character concept. Hey, thanks for citing my character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense a conforming force wall bought at 0 end, with personal immunity, might work. The character would basically be invulnerable to all attacks which did less than the def of the wall. the tricky part is I don't think there's any advantage which allows you to keep the FW up after it's breached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Loner Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense Actually, looking at how Adjustment Powers to STUN and BODY work in 5e revised, there seems little point to the White Knight Defense any longer. Which means Quasar needs a revamp. Horus-Re might as well. Looks like it's time for me to read the FAQ again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense The short version is, since Healing is now the /only/ Adjustment power that can restore STUN and BODY to starting values without the 5 pts/turn of "fading", the White Knight Defense ceases being invulnerability so much as it is a way to keep fighting even while you take permanent damage, without showing it, until a few Turns later you fall over dead. *snaps fingers* Yup, it's time for a character overhaul. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense another possibility is to buy some extra defenses(beyond the 2.5x DC cap) with the limitation "permeable(minimum stun damage is 1 point per point of body)"(-14 or -1/2, not sure what that's worth). You could stack that with the damage reduction, so even a 30d6 attack only does about 5-7 stun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense The short version is, since Healing is now the /only/ Adjustment power that can restore STUN and BODY to starting values without the 5 pts/turn of "fading", the White Knight Defense ceases being invulnerability so much as it is a way to keep fighting even while you take permanent damage, without showing it, until a few Turns later you fall over dead. *snaps fingers* Yup, it's time for a character overhaul. Again. Couldn't the absorption just be changed to only boost END, the Absorption Cap and Healing (+3/4) and then add the power Healing (Simplified Body+Stun) with a Trigger (whenever absorption works?) HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense The short version is, since Healing is now the /only/ Adjustment power that can restore STUN and BODY to starting values without the 5 pts/turn of "fading", the White Knight Defense ceases being invulnerability so much as it is a way to keep fighting even while you take permanent damage, without showing it, until a few Turns later you fall over dead. *snaps fingers* Yup, it's time for a character overhaul. Again. Well, Absorbtion to STUN works. REC should outpace the loss. As for BODY... if you have regenerative healing that outpaces the fade rate, that's not a problem. (It could even be "only to outpace the fade rate") More expensive, but not that much more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: The White Knight defense As far as I'm concerned, when any adjustment power that is restoring lost points Characteristics, Powers, etc, the points restored do not fade. Absorbtion, Transfer, etc, it doesn't matter -- no fade at all until you exceed the normal level for whatever is having the points put into it. You can point me to page numbers and FAQ entries and Steve Long quotes until the end of next week, and on this particular question I won't give a flying fig, and I'm not changing my mind. Not only that, I will continue to build any and all characters based on my opinion on this matter. Simply put, in this case, I am right, and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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