massive battles

[nightbringer256]

wow i have lots of questions tonight!

 

just wondering if anyone has asystem to simplify mass battles i.e. like 200 men to a side. i was thinking something along the lines of a luck on lcuk roll and the heros just fight it out around them. what do you think

[Boll Weevil]

**Putting on a pot of coffee

 

As I recall there was a humongous thread about this on the old boards. Consider this can of worms opened

[Lord Liaden]

Re: **Putting on a pot of coffee

 

Well, there is a mass combat system detailed in Fantasy HERO, essentially an elaboration of the system provided in the 4E edition of FH. Without going into too much copyrighted detail, it treats a group of characters making up a "unit" as essentially a single character, with several of the same Characteristics as normal characters. Combats are then run between these units similarly to those between standard characters. The number of members in each unit, and the game scale of the battlefield, are variable depending on the preferences of the participants. There are also provisions for combatants with exceptional abilities (e.g. PCs) to affect the larger battle through individual actions.

[zornwil]

Re: **Putting on a pot of coffee

 

What LL said, I would just add more of a question - since you posted in Champions, what sort of men, what sort of PCs, what's the general interaction? For example, if it's just agents in a raging battle while the PCs fight other specialized NPCs, you can pretty well hand-wave the battle; if one of the PCs is directing the men, a Tactics roll or such can be used to influence it with liberal GM interpretation. But not sure what you're really after...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: massive battles

 

I haven't read the Fantasy Hero mass battle rules, so I can't comment on these. [Actually, I seem to have a lot of books I haven't read ]

 

One approach is to set standard per phase, or per turn, results that will occur absent PC intervention. For example, assume there are 5 PC's, 5 villains, 200 VIPER agents and 250 UNTIL agents. The VIPER agents are a bit better armed than UNTIL. Your structure could be something like:

 

(a) The agents move on Ph 4, 8 and 12. For every 8 VIPER agents conscious, 1 UNTIL agent will be KO'd. For every 10 UNTIL agents consicous, 1 VIPER agent will be KO'd. These are computed based on the number of agents conscious on each side at the start of the phase. [nb: this will wipe out all the agents by the end].

 

( Set the parameters of what each villain will accomplish based on his individual style. For example, perhaps the Brick villain can only reasonably take out 2 agents with a Sweep. On eadh phase he is unoccupied, he is assumed to down 2 UNTIL agents on a 11-, and get one 1 on a 15- (ie 12-15). He misses completely if you roll 16-18.

 

© The PC's become the wild card - if they are engaging the villains, the villains can't also attack agents. If they engage agents (or vice versa), those agents can't also attack other agents. Try to consider some of the PC's likely tactics vs the agents as well, and look for means to speed up the action. As an example, PC's could be assumed to have standard damage against agents, or assumed to KO half, or some other fraction, of the agents they hit automatically, or to KO any individual agent on a roll of, say, DC or less (10 DC averages 35 STUN, so this assumes the average agent's STUN and DEF will total about 35 - make it DC - 2 if your agents are a bit tougher, or DC + 2 if you want them to fall faster), so you don't have to track individual STUN or BOD.

 

ABOVE ALL, you want some shortcuts that prevent you needing to make 400+ rolls while the players watch "in fascination ".

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: massive battles

 

How detailed does it need to be?

 

If the PCs are commanding one side, have them make Tactics rolls, do superheroic things to rally/inspire their troops, and individually take on the important bad guys.

 

Otherwise, decide how you want the battle to go, and describe it to the PCs from their perspective - no need for die rolls - allow them to influence it through their actions, of course.

 

If you're more interested in wargaming the battle, use the FH mass combat rules, as mentioned above.

[Tech]

VIPER does it big

 

Some time ago, my brother did an episode called, "Let Freedom Reign". This was a major assault by VIPER (4th edition) on the Statue of Liberty to destroy it and send a signal to the USA. Fortunately, UNTIL was there to help. So many agents you couldn't spit without hitting an agent. He simply set a limit of how many agents attack a hero and did quick dice rolling, something he & I have become proficient at and speeds up games. All in all, I think I recall 200 agents or so. The players had a blast! It takes concentration & alot of preparation on the GM's side to prepare for a massive number of agents.

[Dust Raven]

Re: massive battles

 

I'd suggest using the Tactics skill for this. When you've got enough men on the field of battle that it becomes an issue, the side who makes their Tactics roll by more will likely win, regardless of numbers or equipment. All it takes is one well places man to flip the right switch or push the right button at exactly the right time to win a huge battle.

 

The only thing I'd trouble with in this case if figuring out what the modifiers would be. It's probably a complete GM call in any case, in which case he can just decide who wins and how (or whould win if the PCs weren't there) without rolling anything.

[keithcurtis]

Re: VIPER does it big

 

Here is what a friend and I came up with a while back for Fantasy Hero. We modified it slightly in play, but it seemed to resolve things pretty quickly.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22452

 

Keith "Mr. Helpy-Guy" Curtis