MitchellS Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I don't think it is avoidable. How can you possibly discuss religious magic in a modern, near-real world setting (like CU) and NOT discuss the big 3? The alternative is to spend lots of time creating a new "pretend" religion that is, like as not, to be very similar to an actual RL religion. Don't call it chritstianity, call if Smurfianity or Stevianity. It would still be a problem. This is one of those areas where, as far as RPG books are concerned, it's a lose-lose situation. I don't believe it's a lose-lose. I believe it's just that people like to over-react and make broad statements due to the anonymity of the internet message board environment. Hero Games did not say: "Gods are this because we wrote it in a game book!" Hero Games said: "In our fictional Hero Universe Gods are this." There is a very big difference between understanding when something is fictional and when it is not. The Hero Universe is a fictional place. The Marvel Universe is a fictional place. The DC Universe is a fictional place. All of these universes use Gods in different ways and none of them are saying that their way is how it works in the real world. It's suspension of disbelieve. On top of that the CU doesn't say there isn't a all-powerful Creator in its universe. It just says that the Creator is beyond the comprehension of mortal beings and so each mortal being attempts to define their creator in an image which they can comprehend. And that is how you get pantheons and so many deities. I'm not singling out Agent X. He can chose to purchase the book or not [i don't plan on buying it myself]. It just pushes my buttons when people base all their opinions of something on someone else says something about it rather than their own practical experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm telling the company why I won't buy the book. Get over it. Why was it necessary that you do so? Why not just not buy the book and otherwise let it all go? Simple answer: because you wanted the attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review He said he wasn't going to buy the book because his religion wasn't treated as off-limits or otherwise special by the author. Not all religions' date=' and not because he didn't like the portrayal in particular, but because HERO dared to use his religion in a fictional context. As far as I can tell, he wants his religion to get special consideration, since it's like, "the truth" and stuff.[/quote'] The only consideration I see him asking for is to respect that while they use a topic matter he disagrees with using he will not be buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Why was it necessary that you do so? Why not just not buy the book and otherwise let it all go? Simple answer: because you wanted the attention. OR he likes to express his opinion on things, should the only comments made be in praise? If you disagree with something you should be allowed to express it, even if others don't feel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review If I didn't want to buy a book for a weighty reason, I'd say so. And when a thread has come up, I've indicated which books I won't buy for lack of interest. I still don't agree with AgX' opinion but I would certainly hope he'd voice it. As to the bickering after, people seem to like to bicker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Okay....so Agent X won't buy the book. Got it. Now....does anyone have anything objective to say about the book's gaming content? I'd offer a review myself, but my copy hasn't arrived in the mail yet. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I haven't picked it up yet. Based on BishopOfB&W's review I"m more anxious than I was to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I should clarify. When I say that no religion gets special treatment in the book and Shomshak uses Campbell’s approach' date=' I don’t mean that he debunks the New Testament. Shomshak carefully stays away from saying yes or no on the subject of Jesus’ or anyone else’s divinity. He simply points out the similarities between the story of Jesus’ life and the stories of other founders of religions(If one were feeling particularly ecumenical, one might deduce that there are certain events that are predestined to mark the lives of such individuals). I understand your dislike of the interpretation of kabballistic cosmology in TMW. It’s not to my taste, either, and I don’t use it. Shomshak only gives it a small mention because he already covered it exhaustively in TMW. The sample cosmology he gives is based on concentric crystal spheres and the pope persuading God to re-boot the world in 1000 A.D. to use science instead of magic and remove the direct influence of meddling spirits instead of ushering in Armageddon. I recommend that you at least look through the book or borrow a copy from someone before you make your final decision.[/quote'] Have they tied in their Mystic World mumbo jumbo about dimensions where a Pseudo-Yahweh is running around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Your absolutely right agent X I'm sorry you didn't make any demands that were a misreading on my part. You are certainly expressing a desire for DOJ to change their mystic line to suit your beliefs I hope that’s fair. (The force of your conviction is probably what lead to my misreading.) I don’t want you to shut up about why you won't purchase this book your third post was actually quite helpful as a reason for people to consider not purchasing this book but the stuff about your religious sensibilities is only helpful to those who share them and they wont be buying it either I assume. You don’t like the way it handles your religion. I accept that and I respect that but I don’t have a problem with it and as I don’t share those beliefs it seems pointless to inform me and others like me of the offence this causes you. You post on the forums, you throw a wide loop. If my post isn't interesting to you, read it and ignore the rest of my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Why was it necessary that you do so? Why not just not buy the book and otherwise let it all go? Simple answer: because you wanted the attention. No, because I, like everyone else on these boards, is bucking for their particular tastes in Champions products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Have they tied in their Mystic World mumbo jumbo about dimensions where a Pseudo-Yahweh is running around? I actually agree with you. I hate Shomshak's cosmology with a bloody passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I actually agree with you. I hate Shomshak's cosmology with a bloody passion. I think we're not alone. I've seen some others take a few swipes at that cosmology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I think we're not alone. I've seen some others take a few swipes at that cosmology. Good for him that he's all fascinated with Kabbalistic whatever, but why is he overcomplicating things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I think we're not alone. I've seen some others take a few swipes at that cosmology. Hate:Bringing people together since... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I’d still like to know if the villain on the cover is going to show up in any official write-up, though. We don't have any particular plans for that... right now. Who knows what may appeal in the future? And maybe the pic will inspire someone to write a DH article or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Hate:Bringing people together since... LOL. As much as Worldmaker and I bump heads on internet etiquette and few cultural issues, we have much in commong about playing Champions from what I've seen. I share many of his old concerns for Steve Long's design philosophy. I'd love to try out the Global Guardians but I don't know if Worldmaker, Kara, and Rachel would be open to that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review LOL. As much as Worldmaker and I bump heads on internet etiquette and few cultural issues' date=' we have much in commong about playing Champions from what I've seen. I share many of his old concerns for Steve Long's design philosophy. I'd love to try out the Global Guardians but I don't know if Worldmaker, Kara, and Rachel would be open to that idea.[/quote'] Do you want to GM, or be a player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review LOL. As much as Worldmaker and I bump heads on internet etiquette and few cultural issues' date=' we have much in commong about playing Champions from what I've seen. I share many of his old concerns for Steve Long's design philosophy. I'd love to try out the Global Guardians but I don't know if Worldmaker, Kara, and Rachel would be open to that idea.[/quote'] Can't hurt to ask. Its a good game, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BishopofB&W Posted January 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Have they tied in their Mystic World mumbo jumbo about dimensions where a Pseudo-Yahweh is running around? Not that I remember. I don't have the book with me, but I think he did all that in TMW. There is something about Mohammed having miracles attributed to him. Your best bet is to flip through the chapter on making a mage(that's where all the Campbell stuff is) at your FLGS or maybe Zornwill or one of the others can give you a second opinion. The rest is more generic "Here's how you could do ghosts, angels, devils, etc., in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Do you want to GM' date=' or be a player?[/quote'] I've never GMed in a PBEM and never played in a PBEM that last more than a few weeks. I think I probably should play before I GM but I certainly would be open to GMing once I had a handle on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review Not that I remember. I don't have the book with me' date=' but I think he did all that in TMW. There is something about Mohammed having miracles attributed to him. Your best bet is to flip through the chapter on making a mage(that's where all the Campbell stuff is) at your FLGS or maybe Zornwill or one of the others can give you a second opinion. The rest is more generic "Here's how you could do ghosts, angels, devils, etc., in the game.[/quote'] I'll look it over at the store when they get it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review No' date=' because I, like everyone else on these boards, is bucking for their particular tastes in Champions products.[/quote'] Yeah, like more well-endowed catgirls in battle bikinis! What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review The rest is more generic "Here's how you could do ghosts' date=' angels, devils, etc., in the game.[/quote'] I foresee alterations to the HSAB.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Worldmaker Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review I've never GMed in a PBEM and never played in a PBEM that last more than a few weeks. I think I probably should play before I GM but I certainly would be open to GMing once I had a handle on it. That's cool. The Stroud's Merc's campaign is currently calling for players. And if Jackalope doesn't respond to the next Global Guardians 2 turn, I'm going to need to fill a hole in that campaign as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Re: Ultimate Mystic Review That's cool. The Stroud's Merc's campaign is currently calling for players. And if Jackalope doesn't respond to the next Global Guardians 2 turn, I'm going to need to fill a hole in that campaign as well. I'll whip some stuff up and put it in the cue. What kind of character would you be looking for if Jackalope fails to respond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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