Col. Orange Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I've had a character with a gun multipower before (each slot representing different clips) but I haven't played in a while so need some help reconstructing it. I buy the pool with 'OAF: Gun' and 'Takes 1/2 a phase to switch slots' (though I can't remember how much that's worth - anyone?) I then buy ultra-slots as 'OIF: Clip of AP rounds' (or whatever), right? If I want to make all the slots 'Beam Attack', do I put that on the pool, the slots, or both? Thanks all, Col. Orange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beavis Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower Stopping the Abuse...... Is this "gun" ever going to be taken from the character. If the answer is yes, then OAF applies. If the answer is no or "theoretically it could be" then this is not OAF but Only in Heroic ID. 1/2 phase to switch slots is not worth anything. Because you can still attack in the phase. Except for full attack actions. Clips for AP rounds is Charges limitation. Beam attack can go in each slot only as it only applies to range attacks. Thank you for ending the abuse!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Orange Posted January 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower Am I being abusive? It seems a pretty standard constuction to me - Isn't there a laser rifle with multiple settings in the examples of how to construct a multipower? I'm not sure about your problems with OAF either, a gun is a pretty standard focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Orange Posted January 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower 1/2 phase to switch slots is not worth anything. Because you can still attack in the phase. Except for full attack actions. I'm a little confused by this, giving up the ability to move and attack isn't a disadvantage? I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a mini-maxer or powergamer or something - that's really not my intention, I'm just trying to build something correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I'm a little confused by this, giving up the ability to move and attack isn't a disadvantage? I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a mini-maxer or powergamer or something - that's really not my intention, I'm just trying to build something correctly. I would go with a -1/4 for a modified Extra Time: Delayed Phase. This disad doesn't take away any action from you, you still end up with a full phase. It's just that the power activates on the Dex x1/2 (If your Dex was 24, you'd attack on Dex 12). Losing 1/2 a phase seems a comparable equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I agree there is a limiting factor to 1/2 phase to switch slots. I would analogize this to "Full phase, only to activate", which is -1/4. Each slot of the Multipower effectively requires a full phase (half phase to alocate reserve + 1/2 phase to fire) the first time any slot is used. Once the slot is "set", it only requires 1/2 phase for each subsequent use, until the pool is reallocated. This means the first shot from the gun also requires a full phase (to initially alocate the pool). If you want to have a "default" slot that's available at the start of combat, for example, I would allow the limitation on the slot costs only, not on the reserve, as the restriction will only apply to changing from the initial default slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower Is this "gun" ever going to be taken from the character. If the answer is yes, then OAF applies. If the answer is no or "theoretically it could be" then this is not OAF but Only in Heroic ID. Only thing is though, if he makes it a focus, specifically an OAF, he can be disarmed in combat. Never mind whether or not he ever "loses" the gun, unless it's a Focus, it ain't ever getting knocked from his grasp. There a few guns that this works for nicely BTW, the Pyran Handgun from the Deathworld trilogy by Harry Harrison being one of them. While I do understand some instictive reactions to Foci abuse and I've seen (And probably perpetrated) some in the past, I think he's just fine defining this as a Focus. Availability isn't the only reason OAF is worth +1/2 more than OIF after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beavis Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower Only thing is though, if he makes it a focus, specifically an OAF, he can be disarmed in combat. Never mind whether or not he ever "loses" the gun, unless it's a Focus, it ain't ever getting knocked from his grasp. I agree, he can be disarmed. Also the gun can be targeted and (easily destroyed). The question is, " is this a common tactic (disarming or attacking the focus) in the games he participates in??" If the answer is yes, then the Focus is good. If the answer is no, then the limitation is not a limitation, but simply a special effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Orange Posted January 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I agree' date=' he can be disarmed. Also the gun can be targeted and (easily destroyed). The question is, "is this a common tactic (disarming or attacking the focus) in the games he participates in??" If the answer is yes, then the Focus is good. If the answer is no, then the limitation is not a limitation, but simply a special effect.[/quote'] Well, people try to disarm the team's Martial Artist, but he's really good (the player has been using him on and off for more than a decade) so they usually fail. I'm building a guy to be the group's blaster (lower DEX, fewer Combat Levels) so the bad guys probably won't have as much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I agree' date=' he can be disarmed. Also the gun can be targeted and (easily destroyed). The question is, " is this a common tactic (disarming or attacking the focus) in the games he participates in??" If the answer is yes, then the Ficus is good. If the answer is no, then the limitation is not a limitation, but simply a special effect.[/quote']Agreed, but that onus falls on the GM's shoulders, not really the players. Each campaign is going to be different just based on how your GM decides to run things. My players have already "earned back" their OIF and OIHID limits due to one adventure where they were trapped in the artic with a bunch of scientists. They spent a long time "escaping to get help" so that they could come back in their Hero ID's and whomp the bad guy that almost one shotted the team brick while in his civvie ID. Now the onus to some part can be on the player too. This might not be in your best self-interest, but if you find Disads of yours that aren't getting played, mention it to your GM. In most cases they'll be impressed at your honesty and desire to play up all angles of your PC and not just the good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower As a side note, if each slot of your Multipower has the Beam limitation, then you may also apply it to the Reserve cost. (5ER, page 320) My question for you is, do the slots represent different types of ammo (as I believe is probably the case) or do they represent different "gun shticks" (such as Hail Of Bullets: 2d6 RKA, AoE Line)? If the latter, then you can play with the Charges limitation, taking clips on the Reserve and requiring more charges for a single use (i.e., Hail Of Bullets has a limitation Requires 10 Charges). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I agree' date=' he can be disarmed. Also the gun can be targeted and (easily destroyed). The question is, " is this a common tactic (disarming or attacking the focus) in the games he participates in??" If the answer is yes, then the Focus is good. If the answer is no, then the limitation is not a limitation, but simply a special effect.[/quote'] You also have to add Grabs and Entangles to that list. Remember, they also lock out accessible foci. And if the GM never uses ANY of those... are you still playing Hero? Come ON. OAF is a limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I've wanted for a long time to play a rifleman who uses trick ammo. Sort of a Green Arrow type who uses a gun rather than a bow. Sometimes he uses lethal rounds, but some of his rounds are also designed to do things like kock people out, knock them to the ground, or entangle them. easy enough to do in game in theory, but trying to eplain the concept in such a way that it makes sense is difficult. There's only so much you can cram into a bullet, after all. Even with supertech, can the contents of one hollow round of ammunition really fill even an entire HEX with gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Gun multipower I've wanted for a long time to play a rifleman who uses trick ammo. Sort of a Green Arrow type who uses a gun rather than a bow. Sometimes he uses lethal rounds, but some of his rounds are also designed to do things like kock people out, knock them to the ground, or entangle them. easy enough to do in game in theory, but trying to eplain the concept in such a way that it makes sense is difficult. There's only so much you can cram into a bullet, after all. Even with supertech, can the contents of one hollow round of ammunition really fill even an entire HEX with gas? The gas is easy: Gas by it's nature always fills what space it can, just say it is very potent. The problem comes with things like nets & Glues...But Pym Particles are wonderful things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Loner Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Gun multipower Even with supertech' date=' can the contents of one hollow round of ammunition really fill even an entire HEX with gas?[/quote'] By not thinking about it very much. Or you can go with the under-barrel grenade launcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Gun multipower There's always rifle grenades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: Gun multipower The anime Outlaw Star has an interesting multi-ammo weapon, the "caster". In my old campaign, there was a bounty-hunter / mercenary superhero named Artemis who carried a 40mm "cartridge pistol". I keep doing a bit of work on her here and there to update to 5thEd, but this rough list of her multipower might help you out: Cartridge Pistol: Multipower, 75-point reserve, (75 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2) Silenced: Energy Blast 10d6, Invisible to Hearing and Sight Groups (+1/2) (75 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Fragmentary: Energy Blast 10d6, Explosion (+1/2) (75 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Hot-Loads: Energy Blast 15d6 (75 Active Points); 2 Charges (-1 1/2), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Rocket Assisted: Energy Blast 10d6, No Range Modifier (+1/2) (75 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Impact Rounds: Energy Blast 8 1/2d6, Double Knockback (+3/4) (75 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Bursters: Energy Blast 8d6, 32 Charges (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2) (70 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Gas: Energy Blast 4d6, No Normal Defense (SCB or Full Poison Immunity; +1), Area Of Effect (4" Any Area; +1), Conforming (+1/2) (70 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Hollowpoints: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6+1, +2 STUN Multiplier (+1/2) (75 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Armor Piercing Incendiary: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6+1, 16 Charges (+0), Penetrating (x2; +1) (70 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) HESH: Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6, Trigger (+1/4), Armor Piercing x1 (+1/2) (70 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) EMP: Killing Attack - Ranged 5d6 (75 Active Points); Only vs Electronics/etc Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Precision Magnesium Flares: Sight Group Flash 15d6 (75 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Burst Magnesium Flares: Sight Group Flash 6 1/2d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1) (74 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Web Canisters: Entangle 7d6, 7 DEF (70 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Glue Canisters: Entangle 4d6, 4 DEF, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Sticky (+1/2) (70 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), OIF (-1/2), Beam (-1/4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneon Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Re: Gun multipower A focus is a limitation and in such on a PC it is the GMs responsibility to make the player regret taking the disadvantage. Making a player second guess the GM during character creation is pointless and calling it abusive is a tad bit insulting. Using your argument; taking a x2 Stun disadvantage vs Sonic attacks is abusive if the GM never attacks the PC with a sonic attack but the player is supposed to think about that at creation, Please. OIHID is not a Focus does not work the same as a focus, focus is a limitation for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Re: Gun multipower To "Moody Loner" What about a multi shot grenade launcher ? Such things exist NOW in the real world and it is possible to get all sorts of ammunition for them. Sure, they are a bit bulky now but, as others have said, having a genius inventor around to help reduce the size of things can be wonderful ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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