I need a certain type of catastrophe

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

A massive mind-control by a powerful, nostalgic telepath?

[LadyChaos]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters. It was about a company that created a bacterium which fed on certain very rare plastics' date=' from which the company made its soft drink containers. [/quote']

Thanks and rep to you for the answer. I would have stayed up all night trying to remember the reference.

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Earth passes through the tail of a comet. Static electricity in the atmosphere increases 1000%. No electrical device can function because of stray currents.

[Whitewings]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

One thing to remember about a world-affecting EMP is that it would fry almost all electronics: Chips and transistors of all sorts, including the electronics that control the electronics fabricators. So instantly we're back to 1970s style eight-bit chips, and having to build electronics back up from there, starting with the old-fashioned layout on Mylar with special pens.

[McCoy]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

What about a dramatic reversal of the magnetic field? We think they've done that sort of thing before' date=' and I bet that would mess with technology somewhat. Dunno, that might do bad things to people too though, since our magnetosphere might flake out for a short time too... Worth looking to?[/quote']

Geomagnetic field flip was my thought too. Field doesn't flip overnight, it "sputters" or "flickers." Each flicker causes a small EMP, and with each little EMP every ordinary chip has a 5% chance of failing, every hardened chip a 1% chance. Enough warning to ground planes, get hard copies of financial records, get pre-80's cars running again. Takes a while for the magnetic field to flip entirely (a generation? a century? as long as the GM wants it to take).

 

No reason why new chips couldn't be made, but powered or not, shielded or not, some of them will burn out with each flicker. Chips become to perishible to be economically viable.

 

IIRC no major extinction even has been associated with former field flips, so I wouldn't worry about increased radiation.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Ok, I like the other ones better, but I just got to go with the conspiracy one.

 

All ICs have a tiny piece of code deep within the silicon. Originally designed for the cold war for the day that Evil Communists try to defeat us using our own ICs (back in the 50s), the tiny piece code was designed that, upon receiving a certain encoded message, the IC self-destructs.

 

Of course, hardly anybody remembers this tiny piece of code, it has been forgotten and remembered only as "this is how you make ICs", so the entire world ended up including the code in the ICs. Which was good, since we needed the shutoff switch. Unfortuately, the code also got into *our* stuff, but it was still good, because what if we lost control of our stuff and those that knew couldn't say anything. But they made sure to keep some backups in metal cages (shielded against an EMP pulse was close enough to the truth).

 

Unfortuately, on January 2000, the world suffered Y2K and something deep within all the world's ICs activated it's burn out code. How all the chips (even unpowered ones) knew it was 2000, is a mystery lost in classified records deep in a forgotten and locked file cabinet in some government basement. Thus even chips shielded from EM pulses (for just such an emergency) were burned out as well.

 

They was some death and tragedy, planes really did fall out of the air, but compared to 6 billion people, it was hardly noticable.

[Bucky]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

What event or series of events could cause a global backslide in the technology (about 30-50 years) without causing a massive population die off or razing most of civilization to the ground. Cities would still be intact' date=' but most of the high tech (most electronics) would be non functional. Rubber science is fine (this is a Chamopions setting) but some quasi realism would be good.[/quote']I don't think you can realistically posit that. If you look at population trends over human history, increases in technological capability corespond to population increases. Which makes sense, since the entire direction of technology is to do more with less (material, effort, money, etc.) It means being able to grow more food on less land. Feeding more people with the same or even fewer resources.

 

Wipe out technology, or simply roll it back, you will get a world wide die off. Too many people and systems rely too much on technology, especially communications and transportation, (which in our modern age, is harder to separate.) So what if Kansas has a bumper crop of corn. If they cannot ship it, or if they cannot contact a buyer somewhere where it is needed, somebody goes hungry.

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Silica is 25.7% OF Earth's mass by weight, and is the second most common element after oxygen. It's pretty unlikely silicon could all be removed.

 

A continuous solar event is the best prospect if Nexus is looking for a natural event. Of course a magical event that hampers modern electronic devices could also do the job while still allowing use of "tube" technology from the 1940's. The Brits call these "valves."

 

I knew there was a lot, but not that much. Is a large amount of that is unsuitable for use in technology?

 

I still prefer the EMP/solar flares idea.

 

Perhaps there are transmitters on Earth, broadcasting something which jams electronics. DC has done something along these lines with the JLA twice in recent years, although in neither case was it an EMP being sent.

[Bucky]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I don't think I made my case very well, so I am going to try again.

 

On Decemeber 26th of last year, there was a massive tsunami that wiped out about 272,000 lives. The USS Abraham Lincoln was dispatched to the area immediately afterwards to begin rescue and aid operations. The Abe Lincoln is a nuclear carrier, that is equipped with helicopters which are uniquely suited to move aid material to remote regions.

 

There is a LOT of electronics involved in all this.

 

Lets say you did an EMP burst that burned out all the CPUs aboard that one ship. The power plants are now dead. (The reactors will shut down, or "fail safe". But without the CPUs in its instraments and control equipment, those reactors are inert.) The ship is adrift. All your helicopters are grounded. (hopefully this happens before any aircraft have taken off.) What you have now is 97,500 tons of useless metal, inhabited by about 6,000 people. Without power, its adrift. Without power, its refrigerators and water desalinization plants are dead. While the sailors still have sextants and know how to figure out where they are, they have no means of communicating with the outside world, (except by sight) or controlling their ship. Any frozen stores are going to spoil, and they will have to break out, or construct barbecue pits for cooking.

 

It gets real dark in inside a naval vessel when the power goes out. It gets very difficult to even communicate from one side of the ship to the other, (They still have sound powered phones. But that would be it.)

 

Now expand this to a world wide EMP like event, that wipes out all microprocessor based technology. All American cars built after about 1980 no longer work. That makes getting to work difficult if not impossible for most of the country. All trucks, trains, and planes likewise are inert metal objects. All powerplants are offline indefinately. All water filtration plants are dead. No phone, no lights, no motorcars.

 

Technology makes it easier to do things, like feed, clothe, house, employ and entertain 6 billion people. The harder you make it, the fewer people will whatever is left be able to support. Remove such a key and vital technology like microprocessors, and you end up with a LOT of dead people. It is just too hard to support everyone, and too few of us remember how to do subsistence farming, or provide for our basic needs without all the high tech tools we have available.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Is this for a "dire future"?

 

'cause if it's something that _would_ have happened (alternate timeline), a really nasty option... is peace.

 

That's right... War and "hostilities" spur innovation (necessity has children and all that), so a true and lasting peace back when could leave everyone decades or more "behind schedule".

 

 

If it's more of a "future to be", something that could happen tomorrow... it's still a nasty option for stunting tech growth. Then, to backslide, just have a "retro" social movement. "Back to the good old 20th century, man..."

[nexus]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I don't think I made my case very well, so I am going to try again.

 

On Decemeber 26th of last year, there was a massive tsunami that wiped out about 272,000 lives. The USS Abraham Lincoln was dispatched to the area immediately afterwards to begin rescue and aid operations. The Abe Lincoln is a nuclear carrier, that is equipped with helicopters which are uniquely suited to move aid material to remote regions.

 

There is a LOT of electronics involved in all this.

 

Lets say you did an EMP burst that burned out all the CPUs aboard that one ship. The power plants are now dead. (The reactors will shut down, or "fail safe". But without the CPUs in its instraments and control equipment, those reactors are inert.) The ship is adrift. All your helicopters are grounded. (hopefully this happens before any aircraft have taken off.) What you have now is 97,500 tons of useless metal, inhabited by about 6,000 people. Without power, its adrift. Without power, its refrigerators and water desalinization plants are dead. While the sailors still have sextants and know how to figure out where they are, they have no means of communicating with the outside world, (except by sight) or controlling their ship. Any frozen stores are going to spoil, and they will have to break out, or construct barbecue pits for cooking.

 

It gets real dark in inside a naval vessel when the power goes out. It gets very difficult to even communicate from one side of the ship to the other, (They still have sound powered phones. But that would be it.)

 

Now expand this to a world wide EMP like event, that wipes out all microprocessor based technology. All American cars built after about 1980 no longer work. That makes getting to work difficult if not impossible for most of the country. All trucks, trains, and planes likewise are inert metal objects. All powerplants are offline indefinately. All water filtration plants are dead. No phone, no lights, no motorcars.

 

Technology makes it easier to do things, like feed, clothe, house, employ and entertain 6 billion people. The harder you make it, the fewer people will whatever is left be able to support. Remove such a key and vital technology like microprocessors, and you end up with a LOT of dead people. It is just too hard to support everyone, and too few of us remember how to do subsistence farming, or provide for our basic needs without all the high tech tools we have available.

 

You made your case, I didn't. What I meant was what could cause these event without millions of people dying all at once. I assumed there would be population loss, at least in the First World, technologically advanced nations. There are alot of people even now living in what we'd consider "backwards" conditions in other countries that wouldn't be hit quite as hard.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Ok, here comes the extra-strong rubber science.

 

1) Time travel. A supervillian goes back in time and prevents ICs from being developed, making sure to publish results that say it is impossible. Or a "time pulse" goes back along the timeline and prevents ICs from being possible.

 

From those immune to the effects of time travel (which conventially is most or all the PCs), the effect is an instanteous loss of technological capability, but for everyone else, the world was always this way and thus no major loss of life. The timeline preserves the people that were saved with technology beforehand (although now it was somehow done with a different non-tech solution). People in this timeline are more sturdy since they don't rely on technology to solve their problems.

 

2) Extra-dimensional movement. Same as above, just going over to the another dimension where technology never developed.

[Kristopher]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I have yet to encounter a "massive tech failure" scenario that anyone (other than Michael Crichton) should find at all plausible.

[Agent X]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Is this for a "dire future"?

 

'cause if it's something that _would_ have happened (alternate timeline), a really nasty option... is peace.

 

That's right... War and "hostilities" spur innovation (necessity has children and all that), so a true and lasting peace back when could leave everyone decades or more "behind schedule".

 

 

If it's more of a "future to be", something that could happen tomorrow... it's still a nasty option for stunting tech growth. Then, to backslide, just have a "retro" social movement. "Back to the good old 20th century, man..."

War and Strife does not automatically = Improved Technology and Infrastructure

 

Peace and Stability does not automatically = Stagnation

 

I think you're taking the Challenge/Response Theory far beyond its limits.

[OddHat]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

You made your case' date=' I didn't. What I meant was what could cause these event without millions of people dying all at once. I assumed there would be population loss, at least in the First World, technologically advanced nations. There are alot of people even now living in what we'd consider "backwards" conditions in other countries that wouldn't be hit quite as hard.[/quote']

 

In all seriousnes, a sudden failure of thirty or more years worth of technology would mean far more than minor population loss in the first world. The huge populations we have now are reliant on a food and power distribution network that would fall apart completely without that technology. I'd suggest either figuring that into your scenario, or using an alternate hitory and just dropping charcters into that re-made world. Or, you can alway fudge it.

[nexus]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

In all seriousnes' date=' a sudden failure of thirty or more years worth of technology would mean far more than minor population loss in the first world. The huge populations we have now are reliant on a food and power distribution network that would fall apart completely without that technology. I'd suggest either figuring that into your scenario, or using an alternate hitory and just dropping charcters into that re-made world. Or, you can alway fudge it. [/quote']

 

Yes, there will be a major population loss. Just that in some regions it wouldn't be quite as bad since they are thirty or more years behind in technology any way.

[nexus]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I have yet to encounter a "massive tech failure" scenario that anyone (other than Michael Crichton) should find at all plausible.

 

Well, I'm not looking for hard science and absolute plausiblilty, just something that sounds good. Since the game is also going to include psionic powers, mutant abilities and a bit of the supernatural (ritual magic) I think the player will be able to suspend their scorn and disbeleif a little.

[AlHazred]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Well, here's the link to the Exit Mundi site. It's got a host of Armageddon scenarios, some of which have consequences similar to what you're looking for.

 

If you have psionics, super-tech, and magic, then you don't really need a plausible scenario at all. Let's see who's technology doesn't depend on integrated circuits. Teleios? Okay, so, if something were to destroy electronics and machinery but leave biological organisms intact, he would benefit. How would he go about doing it? He'd probably engineer a micro-organism that somehow consumes electronics or destroys it as a side effect.

 

One thing most high-tech requires is high-grade silica (not all of it, but a good portion). We could postulate that Teleios (or his analogue) manufactures a "germ" that consumes high-grade silica. That would cause it to avoid most of the 25.7% of the Earth that is composed of it and target the silicon chips. It would need an additional mechanism to deliver it there, however. What if he made the germ part of the biology of some other creature, that's designed to seek out ICs? Maybe he modifies rats or cockroaches to make them sense EM emissions, connects that sense to their pleasure centers and then sets them loose? As the vermin seek out high-tech EM sources, the germs get into computer data centers and wreak havoc with technology.

 

Or maybe something even more devious. He makes a "personal hygiene" product that contains these micro-organisms and creates an ad-campaign to target computer-savvy people. That likely wouldn't be worldwide, though.

[dbsousa]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I remember seeing an episode of NOVA that suggested that if the magnetic field failed, it wouldn't just flip, but create moving localised fields. The effect? Moving bands of aurora boreali, increased radiation zones that moved across the planet like weather fronts. In Rubber Science Earth, the initial shock would fry every IC in the world, and the unstable magnetic field would make attempts to rebuild the tech subject to unpredictable EMP Blackouts.

 

GARY GLATZMAIER: The intensity of the magnetic field will be weaker, maybe ten, maybe a hundred times weaker than it is today, which means that more cosmic radiation will get through.

 

ANDREW COATES: This basically opens our defenses so that solar and galactic radiation can hit the atmosphere directly. And this means that the radiation at ground level increases as well.

 

NARRATOR: One estimate is that our overall exposure to cosmic radiation will double. And in some places it could be even worse.

 

Today, the magnetic field focuses space radiation towards the far north and south where few people live. But as the main field collapses, the weak field that's left will have a more complex structure. Instead of just two magnetic poles, there may be four or even eight, slowly moving across the Earth's surface.

 

GARY GLATZMAIER: The structure of the magnetic field won't be the nice, smooth, simple dipole structure that we have today, which tends to deflect charged particles—cosmic radiation—to the poles of the Earth. Instead there will be several poles all around the Earth, maybe close to the equator. And so, not only will the, the field be weaker, the field will tend to focus cosmic radiation at low latitudes where most people live.

 

ANDREW COATES: This unfortunately means more deaths from cancer. It's roughly 15 per million people per year. That is the amount of deaths we're talking about. And if you multiply that over the whole population of the Earth, that becomes a significant number.

 

NARRATOR: It's impossible to know for sure, but the best guess is that every year a hundred thousand people would die from the increased levels of space radiation. But of course this would still represent only a relatively small increase in the overall incidence of cancer.

 

GARY GLATZMAIER: So it's not going to be catastrophic. It'll be something to be concerned about, but it won't be a catastrophic event. And certainly by the time it happens, civilization will have figured out how to deal with it.

 

MARIO ACUNA: The field will come back. In the case of Mars we know that the field will not come back, and it has been gone for billions of years, so the effect has been very, very serious on the Mars atmosphere. But on the Earth's atmosphere just a few thousand years of no magnetic field are not expected to result in a very large stripping of the atmosphere.

 

NARRATOR: Scientists now know that the magnetic reversal that is inevitably coming will have serious consequences for our descendents, but it won't be a disaster for planet Earth. And as our children's children's children wait for north to become south, they may find that a world without a strong magnetic field has its compensations.

 

ANDREW COATES: The great thing is that it would be possible to see the aurora just about every night all over the Earth. So London, behind me, for example, we might be able to see great aurora just about every night of the year, shimmering and moving in the sky as the solar wind hits the atmosphere directly, and it glows like a neon light.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

War and Strife does not automatically = Improved Technology and Infrastructure

 

Peace and Stability does not automatically = Stagnation

 

I think you're taking the Challenge/Response Theory far beyond its limits.

 

So it's rubber social science. Point?

 

Pressure tends to increase the development of new ideas, calm tends towards refining old ideas. And it sounds fairly plausible on the surface. (I read one sci-fi short story that was based on that idea; thanks to the Cold War, humanity was too far along on technological progress in archeology, so we were uncovering the great dinosaur hoax too early... so god and the cubans had to go back in "time" and fake it all over again.)

 

(Yes, that's right. God and the Cubans.)

[Bill_CCHKK]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

There was a story/book awhile back (I want to say it was connected to The Andromeda Strain) that told about a petroleum product-eating organizm that came to Earth either by space exploration or maybe a meteor. Or maybe it was about a virus that ate oil slicks in the ocean that went nuts. Awwww' date=' I can't remember.[/quote']

Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason's Ill Wind. Scientists release an organism that is supposed to help break down and oil tanker spill in San Francisco bay. It migrates into all petroleum products, and the world goes to crap

 

- Bill

[Vanguard00]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason's Ill Wind. Scientists release an organism that is supposed to help break down and oil tanker spill in San Francisco bay. It migrates into all petroleum products, and the world goes to crap

 

- Bill

 

 

Niiiiice

[McCoy]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I knew there was a lot' date=' but not that much. Is a large amount of that is unsuitable for use in technology?[/quote']

Just needs the energy to purify it.

[McCoy]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

In all seriousnes' date=' a sudden failure of thirty or more years worth of technology would mean far more than minor population loss in the first world. The huge populations we have now are reliant on a food and power distribution network that would fall apart completely without that technology. I'd suggest either figuring that into your scenario, or using an alternate hitory and just dropping charcters into that re-made world. Or, you can alway fudge it. [/quote']

Which is why I liked my "flickering magnetic field" hypothesis. All the IC's fail, but not suddenly. There is months to put alternative technology in place for vital systems. Nuclear vessels would probably be able to make port, somewhere. Long distance communications would go back to shortwave radio, the entertainment industry would be screwed, but crops would still be planted, harvested and distributed (with some increased losses due to less reliable weather forcasting).

 

Ironically, the communications satelites in GEO would be unaffected, but transmitters and receivers on the ground would break down, making them useless.

[McCoy]

Re: I need a certain type of catastrophe

 

I remember seeing an episode of NOVA that suggested that if the magnetic field failed' date=' it wouldn't just flip, but create moving localised fields. The effect? Moving bands of aurora boreali, increased radiation zones that moved across the planet like weather fronts. In Rubber Science Earth, the initial shock would fry every IC in the world, and the unstable magnetic field would make attempts to rebuild the tech subject to unpredictable EMP Blackouts.[/quote']

Think the radiation increase would not be too serious. AFAIK none of the major extinction events happened at the same time as any of the field flips. OTOH, rubber physics and rubber biology, the higher background radiation might cause more mutant powers to activate.