Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

[Myrlyn]

Hi folks... I'm looking for some suggestions on how to build a character's ability to avoid getting hit. Ideally I'm looking for someone with abilities to avoid damage like Nightwing, The Batman, and other "super skilled" kinds of character's. Originally I built a character with some armor (Kevlar) and a good (though not super human) dex, and some nice combat skill levels. I expected him to fair well. But in my GM's campaign there are an awful lot of area effect attacks, or bricks who pick up trucks to drop on my agile little guy, and suddenly all the DCV in the world does little when I suddenly need to abort to Dive for Cover to avoid the minimal attack vs. DCV 3 to hit the hex I'm standing in.

 

I recently (with GM permission) added this power to the arsenal to simulate my character's uncanny ability to avoid damage:

Desolidification, Cannot Pass through Solid Objects, Requires an Acrobatics Skill Roll

This simulates the ability really well, except I'm still always on the defensive and can't attack while I'm "desolidified", aka jumping around wildly dodging all incoming attacks.

 

Any one else have some thoughts for how better to represent this ability? Since my character is a skilled HTH fighter, one extra thought is to add a STR modifier, Affects Physical World, but it could get really expensive (his STR isn't huge, but with all of the martial modifiers, and his +HTH from his truncheon it adds up).

[Kristopher]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

Combat Luck, but based on agility rather than luck.

[Lightray]

Why not just change up to:

 

Damage Reduction, Only Vs. AoE Attacks, Requires an Acrobatics Skill Roll

 

to simulate your leaping out of the way of the AoE attack, yet still positioning yourself to attack.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

Similar to Lightray, try:

 

xx% Damage Reduction, must be aware of attack (-1/2), requires an acrobatics skill roll (-1/2)

[JmOz]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

My personal favorite for characters like this is something akin to the following

 

7/7 PD/ED (Natural)

3/3 Combat Luck

5/5 (Armor or DR) OIF

 

Then I usualy will give some Damage reduction (Between 25-50%, both Physical & Energy, always resistant) and apply the same limitations as we see on Combat Luck (Non Persistant, Luck Based, which really has more to do with mobility than luck)

 

Usualy I go with the 25% and Armor, giving me a "Functional defence" of 25/25, while capturing the essense of the charactes

[Trebuchet]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

More SPD is the real key. Those extra Phases to Dodge or otherwise avoid attacks really make a difference. My character always spends at least two or three Phases per Turn getting out of the way. Another tactic she uses is to get in close and stay there; I've found most opponents are reluctant to use AoE attacks when they risk getting hit by their own attack or hitting an ally.

 

Extra defenses only vs. AoE or EX attacks also work, but it's clunkier and not as much fun to play.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

You can also do this by adding DCV linked to an Acrobatics roll (ala old school Acrobatics).

[Myrlyn]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

Thanks for the many ideas guys!

 

I think the idea I like the best is the increased SPD. I like the effect of the current desolidification set up as I avoid everything if I manage my acrobatic maneuver, I just couldn't get off the defensive. Damage Reduction doesn't really give me the effect of making the other guy miss or my character shielding himself behind even the most marginal cover. Combat luck while not bad, doesn't really do it for me either, because it isn't a luck thing in my head, its skill (yeah I know that's just my own issue, but still).

 

The additional SPD is in keeping with my current character concept (fast and agile) and does give me the option of getting in some some good shots and then dancing away again.

 

Thanks!

 

Keith

[Dust Raven]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

I've used all of the following for this effect, though not always all on the same character:

 

An extra point or two of SPD (he's not a speedster, just good reflexes)

An extra 3-6 points of DEX (he's not superhumanly agile, just really really nimble)

Acrobatic Dodge: Armor x/x Non-Persistant (-1/4), DEX-Based (-1/2) (Ha! Only nicked me!, and it's good versus AE attacks)

Acrobatic Dodge: +x DCV; RSR: Acrobatics (-1/2), Cost END (-1/2)

Acrobatic Durrability: Physical & Energy Damage Reduction x% Resistant; RSR: Acrobatics (-1/2); Cost END (-1/2)

Ultimate Dodge: Desolidification (any non Explosion/AE attack that targets the character specifically) Concentration: 0 DCV Throughout (-1) Only To Protect Against Damage (-1/2) (a very anime defense... the SFX is that the explosion/AE envelops him and when the dust clears, he's still standing)

[Agent X]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

I like to give the really fast, agile characters knockback resistance with the limitation that they actually have to move backward. The visual is them getting knocked in the air, they twist and turn, land on their feet, and make some smart aleck response to whoever hit them.

[Capt. Kung Fu]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

I like to give the really fast' date=' agile characters knockback resistance with the limitation that they actually have to move backward. The visual is them getting knocked in the air, they twist and turn, land on their feet, and make some smart aleck response to whoever hit them.[/quote']

 

 

What kind of a limiation is that, how much of limitation...I really like that idea....makes the ninjas more ninja-ie....if that is even a word

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

This suggestion definitely falls outside the "official" rules structure, but given the description of your character's ability it sounds as though Scott Bennie's Luck Pool system could do what you want. The option for Damage Reduction under "Other Uses" seems particularly appropriate. You could cost it like Scott's other "Variant Luck Talents" as a Luck Pool usable only for Damage Reduction. Since it would work after your character has been successfully targetted with an attack, you wouldn't always have to be on the defensive.

 

Definitely requires GM's permission, but if he/she is game it might be worth trying out. Just another suggestion, of course.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

I like to give the really fast' date=' agile characters knockback resistance with the limitation that they actually have to move backward. The visual is them getting knocked in the air, they twist and turn, land on their feet, and make some smart aleck response to whoever hit them.[/quote']

 

Hmm... with the requirement that they actually have to move backward, that sounds a lot like the Breakfall Skill being used to overcome Knockback damage. What happens to a character with this ability if a wall or other solid object is directly behind him when he's hit?

[Lupus]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

Thanks for the many ideas guys!

 

I think the idea I like the best is the increased SPD. I like the effect of the current desolidification set up as I avoid everything if I manage my acrobatic maneuver, I just couldn't get off the defensive.

That's kind of the thing, really. If you want ultimate defence, then you kinda let go of any effective attack. It's sort of the way Hero works.

 

Desolid is the best way to do ultimate evasion, I think. All other options involve it being more likely for you to get hit - you have to weigh things up. Balance it out.

 

That said, how about DCV levels, usable by other (the hex you're standing in), not usable by character... y'know, that could get evil fast.

 

(Myself, I'm never a huge fan of 'DCV 3 to hit a hex'... it's too wargamey in my mind. Sure, hitting a particular hex isn't hard, and on the miniatures board, the guy's standing still. But how does the character launching the attack know WHICH hex to attack? The speedster certainly isn't standing still in the game. He's zooming. I understand the DCV3 thing is about balance as much as anything else - making defence more about the character's own DCV. Still doesn't make much sense to me.)

[Trebuchet]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

Hmm... with the requirement that they actually have to move backward' date=' that sounds a lot like the Breakfall Skill being used to overcome Knockback damage. What happens to a character with this ability if a wall or other solid object is directly behind him when he's hit?[/quote']That's obvious enough: If the level of Knockback Resistance isn't actually enough to keep our stalwart yet acrobatic hero from hitting the wall behind him, then he's still going to take damage from Knockback.

 

It is a neat idea but I think it needs to be thought all the way through to cover questions like yours.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

That's obvious enough: If the level of Knockback Resistance isn't actually enough to keep our stalwart yet acrobatic hero from hitting the wall behind him, then he's still going to take damage from Knockback.

 

It is a neat idea but I think it needs to be thought all the way through to cover questions like yours.

What would be wrong with saying that he bounces off the wall or whatever. I was thinking of using KBR with a -0 Limitation "Must Still Move As If Full KB Applied". This would mean that if he's struck off the side of a cliff, he still goes off, but if he's struck up against a wall, he'll go right through it, if enough KB damage is rolled, or bounce off, without taking damage in either case.

 

I'm not sure how balanced that is, but it could be fun.

 

Alternately, you could just define the SFX of the KBR as still flying back, rather than make it any kind of Modifier. That way if there's no where to go, or moving doesn't make sense, you just stand still and no one worries about it.

[Agent X]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

Hmm... with the requirement that they actually have to move backward' date=' that sounds a lot like the Breakfall Skill being used to overcome Knockback damage. What happens to a character with this ability if a wall or other solid object is directly behind him when he's hit?[/quote'] They acrobatically flip around and take no damage but they stop. It's a -1/4 limitation mainly because it certainly has the potential to move the character out of "play".

[Agent X]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

That's obvious enough: If the level of Knockback Resistance isn't actually enough to keep our stalwart yet acrobatic hero from hitting the wall behind him, then he's still going to take damage from Knockback.

 

It is a neat idea but I think it needs to be thought all the way through to cover questions like yours.

It's worked fine in play. You get hit you go backward until you stop or something stops you. If something stops you it is assumed you spring off it or something. You take no damage. If there isn't anything underneath you, you fall. If you get knocked back further than your KBR, your acrobatic flipping and such means you take less damage than you would without KBR.

[Vorsch]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

About the desolid option, what happens when your hit by affects desolid attacks. The concept breaks at that point.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

About the desolid option' date=' what happens when your hit by affects desolid attacks. The concept breaks at that point.[/quote']That's why I prefer to create this effect with extra SPD, DEX, and maybe some extra PD & ED. Those won't break. And Desolidification is an awfully expensive way to go about it. Even Batman and the Flash get hit sometimes.

 

Extra REC so the PC can get back into the fight never hurts either.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

About the desolid option' date=' what happens when your hit by affects desolid attacks. The concept breaks at that point.[/quote']

I discourage Affects Desolid versus all Desolids, and prefer players to take it at the +1/4 level. Of course, there is the occasional concept where the +1/2 makes more sense, but that is very rare in my campaigns.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Building acrobatic combat agility (?)

 

I discourage Affects Desolid versus all Desolids' date=' and prefer players to take it at the +1/4 level. Of course, there is the occasional concept where the +1/2 makes more sense, but that is very rare in my campaigns.[/quote']

 

Since the 5E rules allow for someone with very limited Desolid to forego having to buy "Affects Solid World" for their Strength and/or Powers, I've never had a problem with saying that attacks with "Affects Desolid" have no particular extra effectiveness in that case.