TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

[saffo]

How would I model a power in which one player using TK to throw a brick type character(who increases his density in transit) at an enemy as an attack?

What skills/powers would need to be involved?

[Bengal]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

Teamwork, probably. Some levels in this attack-specific OCV or Move Thrus.

[Aryanun]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

Sounds like a Fastball Special. I think the way we did it was as a Move Through (our brick at the time have very little movement).

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

How would I model a power in which one player using TK to throw a brick type character(who increases his density in transit) at an enemy as an attack?What skills/powers would need to be involved?

This isn't really a power; it's a tactic called the "Fastball Special". See the description of how to do this on pp. 153 - 157 of Champions.Basics: Character A throws character B at the target. Character A rolls an attack; if he hits, character B rolls an attack for a Move Through, Move By, or Grab By.So, skill levels for character A might include Ranged Combat, or maybe General Combat. Character B could take levels with HTH combat, or the specific maneuver. Teamwork might apply, at your GM's discretion. Or, you could have the two characters (assuming they work together a lot) buy skill levels specifically with the Fastball Special (again, at your GM's discretion).

[Dust Raven]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

To add a bit to what MikeyMitchel said, Character B would use the velocity of the throw (just figured in as the maximum distance the character would be thrown with a Running Throw with TK).

 

A would make good use of CSLs with TK, and PSLs versus Range. B would make use of CSLs that apply to the attack he intends to use. As for Powers, all you really need is a character with a good HTH attack, and a character able to throw him.

[Sean Waters]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

There probably is no real advantage to increasing your mass after being thrown, unless you have been thrown pretty much straight up. The reason for this is that once you change mass it changes your velocity as momentum has to be conserved so you just need to re-calculate the total distance and velocity of the brick once his mass changes.

 

Of course of you've been thrown straight up (or nearly) then you do get to add extra plummetting damage for being heavier, and it will be an advantage assuming that you change mass at or after the apex.

 

NB As far as I am aware this is not an official rule, so if you want to allow the fastball special to get full velocity unaffected by hte mass change, that is fine, it is just not physics, and may well be unbalancing, depending on the total damage you can generate that way.

[Richard Logue]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

at or after the apex.

 

 

Ape-X! He's a silverback gorilla with super-metal bones and claws and a mutant healing factor. He was created and recruited by a secret R&D branch of the Congo-ian government. Their base is in a weird temple whose floor is littered with diamonds...

 

Character ideas can come from anywhere!

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

There probably is no real advantage to increasing your mass after being thrown' date=' unless you have been thrown pretty much straight up. The reason for this is that once you change mass it changes your velocity as momentum has to be conserved so you just need to re-calculate the total distance and velocity of the brick once his mass changes.Of course of you've been thrown straight up (or nearly) then you do get to add extra plummetting damage for being heavier, and it will be an advantage assuming that you change mass at or after the apex.[center']NB As far as I am aware this is not an official rule, so if you want to allow the fastball special to get full velocity unaffected by hte mass change, that is fine, it is just not physics, and may well be unbalancing, depending on the total damage you can generate that way.[/center]

Nope, it is an official rule. See Champions p. 153 sidebar. Increasing density midflight does affect the range / velocity of the throw. So you were right the first time.

[Vorsch]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

Dont you think its funny catering to reality in a superhero game, momentum is conserved but so is mass generally. gaining x32mass isint physics either you know.

 

Also amusing because the move thru rules are totally messed up damage wise to begin with. ( oh look im travelling a extra 10" on my mach 20 flight, good for extra damage, i think not )

[etherio]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

Dont you think its funny catering to reality in a superhero game' date=' momentum is conserved but so is mass generally. gaining x32mass isint physics either you know.[/quote']

 

I think you're missing the mechanism for suspension of disbelief. In any dynamic fiction, one allows for certain unrealistic things to occur, based on the setting. In a superheroic setting, a superhuman can somehow have a density-increase power; his fictional "reality" is defined that way. However, that doesn't mean that all bets are off. The author defines what fantastic things are possible and should treat everything else in an otherwise plausible manner.

 

A character who can defy real-world physics and summon up extra mass ("extradimensionally" or whatever) is fine...his author has declared that to be possible. Unless, however, he also specifically has the ability to ignore rules governing conservation of momentum, good storytelling calls for him to obey those rules.

 

That is, at least, in my humble opinion.

[Vorsch]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

I dont see it printed anywhere that a flying bick with density increase has to slow down.

[Richard Logue]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

I dont see it printed anywhere that a flying bick with density increase has to slow down.

 

 

Maybe not, but logically as he became more dense mid-flight, he would begin decending much more rapidly. It'll be laid out and defined more in Physics HERO.

 

Richard

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

I dont see it printed anywhere that a flying bick with density increase has to slow down.

Not slow down per se, but the total distance he travels is cut. See Champions p. 153, sidebar.

[Vorsch]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

If he dosent travel as far that is slowing down, im pretty sure of it.

 

Throwing a Density Increase type and then having hin turn it on mid flight seem like a perfectly valid tactic. Im sure this has happened with collosus on numerous occasions.

 

I dont own or ever intend to own 5th ed, mainly from bad press on these boards regarding several rules and character inflation.

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

If he dosent travel as far that is slowing down' date=' im pretty sure of it.Throwing a Density Increase type and then having hin turn it on mid flight seem like a perfectly valid tactic. Im sure this has happened with collosus on numerous occasions.I dont own or ever intend to own 5th ed, mainly from bad press on these boards regarding several rules and character inflation.[/quote']Such is your choice. I can only tell you that the rules for throwing objects are dependent on mass, and this carries over to the fastball special tactic. You are free to ignore that rule or any other that doesn't fit your concept, as long as you and your players are in agreement.

[KA.]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

Dont you think its funny catering to reality in a superhero game, momentum is conserved but so is mass generally. gaining x32mass isint physics either you know.

 

Also amusing because the move thru rules are totally messed up damage wise to begin with. ( oh look im travelling a extra 10" on my mach 20 flight, good for extra damage, i think not )

 

Whoops, somewhere along the line we have skipped a groove here!

 

Vorsch, up until your post, I believe they were discussing a non-flying brick being thrown with TK.

 

I agree with you that if the thrown character had the ability to fly, there is no real reason why they would slow down.

 

On the other hand, unless we are talking about huge amounts of TK, I doubt if there would be any reason to throw them.

 

As you pointed out, the amount of speed they gained from the throw would be insignificant.

 

On the other hand, if you throw Jack the 100kg Normal, and along the way he turns into Jack Hammer, the 3200kg Density-Increased Brick, and he has no Flight of his own, I can see him going a shorter distance.

 

Not trying to promote one side or the other, just trying to keep the facts straight.

 

KA.

[Lupus]

Re: TK + a brick = deadly weapon?

 

I can see people slowing down if they change density/size. On the other hand, I can see them not doing so.

 

I guess, think of it this way: all the molecules in the body are going in a direction at a speed. When more molecules are added, those are created ALREADY going in that direction at that speed - since, relative to the person, it's standing still! We don't find people suddenly flying to the side when they change shape, because they don't keep up with the world spinning at 1000kph.

 

So rule it either way in your game. That sidebar was prolly put in Champions for game balance reasons. Don't feel you're stuck by it, or that keeping velocity is any less realistic than suddenly gaining mass.