Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

[Hermit]

“Spirit is the target’s soul, spiritual aspects/qualities and personalityâ€-pg 153, FRED

 

This is a pretty loose definition (Which is probably a good thing, more room for GMs to play) and I’ve already got some ideas on how a spirit transform meant to affect personality compared to a mental transform but I’m still curious on what others have decided on this.

 

I’d also like some examples of a Spirit Transform based power if anyone feels like creating and sharing.

 

My own thought is that Spirit Transform paints in broad strokes, where as Mental tends to be more exact and narrower.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

For me, Spiritual Transform relates to fundamental qualities about what a living creature is, rather than how it looks or thinks. For example, I usually run demonic possession as Spiritual Transform rather than Mental, because another life-force has supplanted the one that normally occupies that body. In a similar vein, a person Transformed into a frog would still be the same personality trapped in a batrachian body, but with Spiritual Transform in addition would actually be a frog in a fundamental sense - its mind, instincts, qualities of the soul that separate frogs from humans.

 

In a different but related vein, I also use Spiritual Transform to represent powers (such as wish-granting) that change the status of a person within society, rather than changing the person him or herself. This is usually reflected in the bestowal of Perks like Money, Reputation, Contacts or Favors, or in the infliction of Social Disadvantages. Altering someone's relationship to the rest of humanity seems sufficiently "spiritual" to me.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

I'm still unable to wrap my head around just what a Spirit Transform is. I've been ruling that Transforms are either Body or Mental. I like to keep such things out of the hands of PCs, anyway :/

[Hermit]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

 

In a different but related vein, I also use Spiritual Transform to represent powers (such as wish-granting) that change the status of a person within society, rather than changing the person him or herself. This is usually reflected in the bestowal of Perks like Money, Reputation, Contacts or Favors, or in the infliction of Social Disadvantages. Altering someone's relationship to the rest of humanity seems sufficiently "spiritual" to me.

 

Thanks LL, that's a great idea and really expands the power nicely without intruding on others I know.

 

Anyone else?

[MitchellS]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Spiritual is the personality and soul. Things like changing psychological limitations

 would apply. Adding new disadvantages would also seem to work [enrage when hears telephone ring or 2x stun from women due to unknown phobia which surfaces when fighting a woman]. It can also mean just overall personality changes which are not on the sheet [easy going person is told to be played as short-tempered]. There's also some other intangibles such as making a good person evil [turning a policeman into a thief or making a pure-of-heart paladin corrupted and evil]. Those are just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Some mental changes would be Mental, but IMHO, any truly fundamental change in nature would also need Spiritual, or else it would be rejected. Example: person brainwashed into being a psycho killer with a Mental Transform, would eventually ( or immediately! ) feel guilty and suffer a change of heart, even if they remember being a cold-hearted bastard.

[steriaca]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

For me, a spirit transformation is, basicly, the clasic "selling your soul for power" stick. A soul defines what you are, but it does not influence what you feal or think. Nor how your body acts.

 

Mental Transformation = How you think.

Body Transformation = How your body acts.

Spirit Transformation = The great intanglable thing which makes humans human... basicly a transformation of this level dosen't make a bad person good, nor a good person bad, but it can influence your actions just the same.

[caris]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

I think, more so than physical and mental Transformations, spiritual Transformations are very campaign specific, depending on how the campaign relates to the idea of "spirit" and "spirits".

 

To take an example from WW Werewolf: the Apocalypse, the taint of the various entities the Wyrm, Weaver, and Wyld would all be fundamentaly spiritual transformation as they make the person visible to certain senses and influence the way that various spirits interact with the tainted person.

 

In a campaign more like the mythic Mideval Europe of Ars Magica, spiritual transformations would be much more rare, and be the final process of sealing some one into a new form, if they are even possible at all. Most likely they could only be performed on certain mystical beings like lesser Fae and the like rather than on those spirits tied to the Judeo-Christian world like angels, humans, or demons.

 

In some campaigns, some perks (reputation), powers (Extra-Dimensional Movement), SFX (Angelic wings), disads (Susceptibility to Holy Relics), could only go with certain spiritual "types", so that to add those traits to the character would require a spiritual Transformation rather than a physical or a mental Transformation.

[gojira]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Most likely they could only be performed on certain mystical beings like lesser Fae and the like rather than on those spirits tied to the Judeo-Christian world like angels' date=' humans, or demons.[/quote']

 

I'd include things like possession and exorcism in spiritual transforms, as well as things like entering the astral plane, spirit quests, creation of zombies (creating life, ie a spirit), and so on. So all sorts of priests and shamans would be eligible to have a spirit transform or two, Judeo-Christians included.

[caris]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

I'd include things like possession and exorcism in spiritual transforms' date=' as well as things like entering the astral plane, spirit quests, creation of zombies (creating life, ie a spirit), and so on. So all sorts of priests and shamans would be eligible to have a spirit transform or two, Judeo-Christians included.[/quote']

 

Well, here you get into a lot of the "how do you X?" arguements. I'm curious how are you conceptualizing the astral plane that Transformation is the most effective mechanic to represent some one entering it, and not Clairsentience and/or EDM?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

There's plenty of overlap between spiritual and mental aspects IMO.

 

I would agree with MitchellS - anything that changes or adds psych lims would come under spirit in my book, anything that effects your drives, personality or goals.

 

Mental transforms would cover perceptions and decision making and knowledge. You could make someone forget that you are their friend, you could make them remember that you are enemies all with mental transform but to make them actually dislike you you'd need a spiritual transform.

 

To use MitchellS's example, you could make Peter Parker hate red heads with a spirit transform but if you wanted him to think that Gwen Stacey was a red head, you'd need a mental transform. You could make Mary Jane remember loving the Green Goblin with a mental transform - but to make her fall in love with him you'd need a spirit transform.

 

You could swap personalities with a spirit transform, but then the targets would have the memories of the body they are in, not the body they vacated. You could swap memories with a mental transform but then you would apply your current feelings and drives to the new memoried and almost certainly would not react as the original owner did. To truly swap minds you would need both a spirit and mental transform.

[gojira]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Well' date=' here you get into a lot of the "how do you X?" arguements. I'm curious how are you conceptualizing the astral plane that Transformation is the most effective mechanic to represent some one entering it, and not Clairsentience and/or EDM?[/quote']

 

I'm old school. The old way of performing an exorcism, or a possession, or mind transfer, or entering the astral plane was with the Spirit Shift power. So Transform is the way to genericly encapsulate those types of powers now, it follows that Transform is the logical choice for astral projection as well.

 

Now if you are just talking about preceiving the astral plane, sure, Transfrom is not the answer. But when you enter the astral plane, you are tranforming a spirit that is bound to a container to one that is free.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

I'm old school. The old way of performing an exorcism, or a possession, or mind transfer, or entering the astral plane was with the Spirit Shift power. So Transform is the way to genericly encapsulate those types of powers now, it follows that Transform is the logical choice for astral projection as well.

 

Now if you are just talking about preceiving the astral plane, sure, Transfrom is not the answer. But when you enter the astral plane, you are tranforming a spirit that is bound to a container to one that is free.

 

Ah! Horror Hero!

 

I see transform as changing what is there not moving it somewhere else, so I'd be using EDM (leaves body behind) for astral travel. Having said that how you deal with an exorcism will depend on the way the possession happened in the first place: if there is *actually* a demon in there, transformation can supress it but not get rid of it - you'd need EDM UAA to actually move it - or maybe an appropriate mind control. If it is *just* a change of personality, transformation is the very thing.

 

The other problem with using transform for astral travel is that you can not use it on yourself, so you could send your mates off, but to follow you'd need another power - probably EDM, but a freaky enough GM might let you do it with duplication.

[Lupus]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

I still don't see how spirit transforms and mental transforms differ.

 

Aren't most of the examples above... well, aren't they just mental transform, with a spirit SFX?

 

The toad thing I can see. To anyone with 'sense spirit, discriminatory', they look at it and go 'oh, it's a toad. Nothing to see here, move along.'

 

But twisting someone's spirit to change their mind? That's the arena of SFX.

[Delthrien]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Oooo. A few of the comments above have got me thinking of a nifty side effect for a "shape change" spell.

 

Once the caster (or subject) of the spell assumes a new form, there is a side effect for a cumulative Spirit Transform that starts working to make permanent what they've turned into... A bit like the True Change from the Earthsea books. I think. Been many moons since I've read them, but I remember something about the dangers of taking on a new form.

 

Anyway, sorry for the tangent. I sort of needed to jot this down while I was thinking about it...

[gojira]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Oh I see. I'd use EDM to represent physically going to some other dimesion. Star Gate, Hoppers (? that TV show where the went to an alternate Earth each week), etc. You pick up all your stuff and physically step into another dimesion.

 

In my campaign, technically, the Astral Plane wouldn't be reachable with EDM because it's "spirit's only." Some types of critters (angels, demons) would be able to preceive and affect the astral plane (and free spirits).

 

I use transform for the go to the astral plane with silver cord attached spirit quest sorta stuff.

[steriaca]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

I'd include things like possession and exorcism in spiritual transforms' date=' as well as things like entering the astral plane, spirit quests, creation of zombies (creating life, ie a spirit), and so on. So all sorts of priests and shamans would be eligible to have a spirit transform or two, Judeo-Christians included.[/quote']

 

So this would explain "Wooden Sword" Rio/Ryu's ability to see ghost, and then his binding with the ghost Tokogaro in Shaman King? Prehaps... but it is also a good excues for a "radiation acadent" to spend unspent experence points.

[Hermit]

Re: Spirit Transform- Examples wanted

 

Thanks everyone, I have to admit I find myself having gone some very different directions from some here. I always thought Psychological limitations, at least affecting them directly was a mental transform myself, though I can see why they would still change from a spiritual transform as a side effect.