An exercise in World Building (My new game)

[Black Omega]

I'm working on a new game for my group. Since the game is likely months off, I'm enjoying the chance to do some world building without a real time limit. Since past games have been fantasy and super heros, my next game will be supernatural (Monster Hunter/Horror - Sometimes the PC hunt the monsters, sometimes the monsters are doing the hunting).

 

Our group has been together for probably 20 years, though I've been with it for perhaps 13. In that time the group has been through countless supernatural games, mosty 1920's. Typically starting with the characters knowing nothing of the supernatural. As a result, past a point the group is a little jaded and starting them with no supernatural knowledge doesn't work very well.

 

So I'm borrowing from the world of Laurell K. Hamilton and her Vampire Hunter novels. It's a world where people have known about vampires and other superntural creatures for centuries. Dragons once really existed, but have been hunted to extinction, as have the greater Troll species. Vampires exist but are universally hunted. Well, almost universally. The Supreme Court in the US has ruled that vampires 'are people too'. As long as they obey the laws, then enjoy the protection of the law like any other citizen.

 

Lycanthropes also exist, shape shifters that suffer from a known disease with a very specific form of transmission, only when a human is wounded by a lycanthrope in animal form. Witches and animators also exist, though they are not very common. Magic is not something that can simply be learned, it's something you either can do or can't.

 

It's not really a 'Cast a Deadly Spell' type of world. The supernatural is well known to exist, but it's not common. Even if everyone knows vampires and lycanthropes exist, most people have never seen one.

 

I'm also adding elements from the Anime Hellsing. But in the short term here's my main question. How would a world like this have developed differently than the normal modern world? Silver is known to hurt vampires and lycanthropes, so silver bullets are commercially availible. They've had to pass laws against summoning demons, so I imagine religions are stronger in this world, since there is more tangible proof.

 

But how else might things be different?

[Curufea]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I'd have a less modern world - where religion tends to dominate, science tends to decline.

 

Standard technology should be around the 1940's or earlier - I wouldn't have any modern computer systems, and general scientific advancement would never be front page news.

I'd get rid of NASA for a start and have no moon landing. Also reduce the military and transfer that to preternatural policing.

Where there is unknown all around you, people are less likely to feel compelled to explore.

 

However - the world might actually start to get more tolerant of religions and different beliefs. So there might actually be several churches and temples to different gods and religions not only in the same city, but with walking distance of each other. Religious advertising would be higher as they seek to be bigger than their competitors - and the general populace seeks safety from the supernatural. I'd take the preacher from Carnivale to be a standard.

 

The Hellsing organisation for England, is fine - but I'd have something a little less ad hoc than Anita Blake and the various county-incompetant half measures for the USA if the supernatural was recognised before the founding of the nation.

 

There could very well be a privately funded organisation in the USA to help with policing, as well as a branch of the FBI.

 

I don't know how witch-hunts, witch-trials and McCarthyism would go if you could actually get proof of things with magic.

 

Slavery would have been less of an issue in US (and European) history as the Africans had supernatural forces to even up the technological gap.

 

There would probably not have been a civil war - unless it was on religious grounds. The war of independance would have been more horrific.

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Hello Curufea!

 

I'd have a less modern world - where religion tends to dominate, science tends to decline.

 

Standard technology should be around the 1940's or earlier - I wouldn't have any modern computer systems, and general scientific advancement would never be front page news.

 

Nah, in this case technology is what evens up normal people with the monsters. Just because the supernatural exists doesn't mean it's a daily threat to all people. The time historical time line is going to be roughly the same. Changes in historical events will be relatively minor. The Nazi Millenium project was one of many super weapon projects, only their plan was to use supernatural creatures to build an army to save the Reich, for example.

 

However - the world might actually start to get more tolerant of religions and different beliefs. So there might actually be several churches and temples to different gods and religions not only in the same city' date=' but with walking distance of each other. Religious advertising would be higher as they seek to be bigger than their competitors - and the general populace seeks safety from the supernatural. I'd take the preacher from Carnivale to be a standard.[/quote']

 

Preacher from Carnivale? Details? In general I think a religion having 'proof' they are right would usually make them less tolerant rather than more. Certainly religious advertising is higher. And the Vampire Church of Eternal Life has a 1,000 year old vampire that can assure you they can back up their promises.

 

The Hellsing organisation for England, is fine - but I'd have something a little less ad hoc than Anita Blake and the various county-incompetant half measures for the USA if the supernatural was recognised before the founding of the nation.

 

There could very well be a privately funded organisation in the USA to help with policing, as well as a branch of the FBI.

 

This is an area where I think the book series was a bit off. Admittedly, not every police department will have someone to dealing with the supernatural. For Sheriff Coltrane out in Hazzard, NC, the last time a lycanthrope ran wild and killed people was 20 years ago. Justifying a full time budget for dealing with the supernatural would be impossible for him. Most hunters will be specialists. In Europe, probably one official agency per nation (like the Hellsing organization) would handle supernatural issues. In the catholic nations, Section XIII: Iscariot would probably have free rein to do what needs to be done (and why stop with catholic nations, after all they are on a mission from God.. I'm sure in the US, it would be a division of the FBI. Though there will always be independents as well, and the informal network of hunters in the US would likely exist. Given a choice, most people would prefer dealing with someone local rather than the feds.

 

I don't know how witch-hunts' date=' witch-trials and McCarthyism would go if you could actually get proof of things with magic.[/quote']

 

This is not really a matter of proof. Most witch trials were conducted by people who firmly believed witchcraft was real and evil and must be destroyed. The big difference between the real world and this world would be that when they say witchcraft exists, they would be right. So likely many of the witchhunts would have been real hunts for real witches.

 

Slavery would have been less of an issue in US (and European) history as the Africans had supernatural forces to even up the technological gap.

 

Not really. Leaving aside that most of the people sold into slavery in Africa were caught by another tribe there and sold to the slavers, the scope of the supernatural is a little more isolated in this world. I'm not really looking to re-write world history. I'm more trying to extrapolate what would be different in the background if the normal person knew for a fact demons existed, even if most likely neither they nor anyone they knew would even meet one in their life time.

 

Sorry if I'm rambling, at work so I type a little, work a little, then type a little again.

[Curufea]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Rambling is all good

 

Anyhow - aren't you having knowledge of the supernatural start earlier than the Anita Blake series?

[tkdguy]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Have you seen the anime series Witch Hunter Robin? It may give you ideas on how witch hunters operate.

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I've seen a littlw WitchHunter Robin, I'll be getting more when I can.

 

Curufea, when do you think knowledge of the supernatural starts in the LKH universe? It's rather tricky to tell since the events mentioned go back typically 200-250 years (Day of Cleansing, Asher getting captured). The oldest event, the Inquisition, dates from 1478 to as late as 1800 or so and was responsable for wiping out the vampires in Spain, so we know the knowledge goes back this far at least. Dragons and greater Trolls didn't seem to hide very well for the most part. The trolls are decribed as bashing people with tree trunks and eating them, so I think we can extrapolate that knowledge of them goes back to pre-history. It's implied in the books though that people have known about the supernatural for a long time.

[Curufea]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I had thought that it wasn't recognised until the 20th century - always being disbelieved. Like the "behind the scenes" stuff from the World of Darkness.

 

But it has been a long time since I read the first books.

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I had thought that it wasn't recognised until the 20th century - always being disbelieved. Like the "behind the scenes" stuff from the World of Darkness.

 

But it has been a long time since I read the first books.

 

Yeah, I think you are thinking of a different series. Obsidian Butterfly mentions that when the Spanish conquered the Aztecs, then went out of their way to kill as many of the Quetzalcoatl Draconus Giganticus (Greater Quetzalcoatl Dragons), not only because they knew it would dispirit the natives but because they were used to killing any dragons they encountered. This battle would have been around 1512. It's pretty clear knowledge of such supernatural creatures goes back before this point.

 

That's part of what I like about the world. The history of conflict between the supernatural and mortal world that goes back centuries.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

There would probably be laws against hunting out the more endangered supernatural critters, which might put a damper on general magic use, since those critters provide a lot of spell components.

[Curufea]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Preacher from Carnivale? Details?

 

Carnivale was a series on the ABC here, and I believe on HBO in your country.

http://www.carnivale.org/

Set during the 1930s in middle America.

Official site: http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/about/index.shtml

 

http://www.carnivalefaq.org/Cast/Justin.htm

[austenandrews]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I'm not familiar with the sources you mentioned, but I would think that in a parallel modern world, supernatural beings could be extremely rare but the public would still know about every documented case. Just like serial killers, mass murderers, etc. are extensively documented today, every case of vampirism and lycanthropy would be mobbed with rabid journalism and reviewed ceaselessly on television for all eternity. The media would watch every vampire & werewolf victim like a hawk. There'd be public registries of known creatures. Entire industries would rise based on public fears - anti-vampirizing your home, cremating loved ones as proof against reanimation, etc. These phenomena would all occur regardless of how common or uncommon such beings actually are. And the media attention would make instant superstars out of those beings willing to capitalize on their condition.

 

Funding to "cure" these creatures would be astronomical, as they'd be extremely high-profile diseases. Scientists will have studied them endlessly. That's not even to venture into the religious ramifications of a being who is physically injured by a cross or other display of spirituality. Skepticism may soar or plummet (depending on what studies conclude) but it will definitely be affected. And if people can actually summon demons, that opens a whole new vista of physics, biology, et al. beyond the obvious religious implications.

[sinanju]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I had thought that it wasn't recognised until the 20th century - always being disbelieved. Like the "behind the scenes" stuff from the World of Darkness.

 

But it has been a long time since I read the first books.

 

I think you're confused by a contradiction in the novels themselves. The earliest novels (or maybe only the first one or two Anita Blake novels) _did_ suggest that widespread awareness of the supernatural was fairly recent revelation. Later on it got retconned farther and farther back in time.

[Curufea]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Ah!

 

I not sure about keeping up with the series these days - as one of my friends pointed out there is too much gratuitous sex, and the plot suffers.

We have - plot problem at the beginning, then 80% of the book on sex and relationship problems, then the plot is resolved in the last chapter, virtually at the last moment.

 

Not good.

 

I don't mind the sex in her faerie series, as it is actually non-gratuitous. A part of the plot. Also the plot has development through the entire book, not just when the author remembers it

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Ah!

 

I not sure about keeping up with the series these days - as one of my friends pointed out there is too much gratuitous sex, and the plot suffers.

We have - plot problem at the beginning, then 80% of the book on sex and relationship problems, then the plot is resolved in the last chapter, virtually at the last moment.

 

Not good.

 

I don't mind the sex in her faerie series, as it is actually non-gratuitous. A part of the plot. Also the plot has development through the entire book, not just when the author remembers it

 

I'm not sure the early books ever even mention how long people have known about the supernatural. But even limited acceptance of it is recent. Werewolves were lynched as late as the 1960's and animators could onlt work legally starting in the 80's (I think). And Vampires have still only been legal maybe five years or so.

 

For my part, the sex in the Merry Gentry series is about as gratuitous as the Anita Blake novels, though some cases are better or worse than others. The books keep me reading and I do enjoy the world.

[sinanju]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

I'm not sure the early books ever even mention how long people have known about the supernatural. But even limited acceptance of it is recent. Werewolves were lynched as late as the 1960's and animators could onlt work legally starting in the 80's (I think). And Vampires have still only been legal maybe five years or so.

 

For my part, the sex in the Merry Gentry series is about as gratuitous as the Anita Blake novels, though some cases are better or worse than others. The books keep me reading and I do enjoy the world.

 

I don't think the earliest books ever _explicitly_ state how long the supernatural has been general knowlege, but the impression I get (and others got) was that it was a relatively recent thing. Later novels in the series have since made it clear that the supernatural was a known factor throughout history.

 

My wife and I still buy and read both series, though we agree that the later novels aren't as good as the early ones. On the other hand, I fiercely disagree with thep eople who object to "Anita gains a new power in ever novel"...because I think that's been the point of the exercise all along.

 

 

POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOLLOW:

 

 

 

It was only the second or third novel where Anita finally admitted the truth to herself--she wasn't merely an animator, she was a full-fledged necromancer. It's also been pointed out that the vampire council made a habit of killing off necromancers for a very, very long time. I think the vampire council has been so successful at doing so for so long that they've forgotten just why that practice came into being--and Anita is the object lesson. Jean Claude has helped her hide her powers long enough that she's gained enough power (and enough knowledge of her abilities) that she's now a real threat to the council, and they're going to find out why necromancers are damned scary.

[Curufea]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Except that undead aren't the only things Anita has to worry about ;-p

[Bunyip]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

If you can find it, Harry Turtledove's The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump is an interesting take on how civilisation could have developed in a world where religious belief is a tangible and potent force, and where supernatural creatures walk the streets (even down to the fast food chain called the Golden Steeples...)

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Except that undead aren't the only things Anita has to worry about ;-p

 

No, former ex-boyfriends are at least as much trouble. Though the question of Larry of a budding necromancer as well is interesting.

 

If you can find it' date=' Harry Turtledove's The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump is an interesting take on how civilisation could have developed in a world where religious belief is a tangible and potent force, and where supernatural creatures walk the streets (even down to the fast food chain called the Golden Steeples...)[/quote']

 

I can find it at Amazon.com, probably used books stores. I'm afraid I'll need to know why to find it though. I did a search on the book and it keeps being described as a comedy with plenty of puns. I have a low tolerance for comedy, especially punnish comedy:) What's so good about it?

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Just having a little more fun working on organizations.

 

Helsing Institute

 

“In the name of God, impure souls of the living dead shall be banished into eternal damnation. Amen.†- Hellsing Motto –

 

Background: Bram Stoker's Dracula was a sensation when published in 1897, not the least because it was supposed to be based on a true story. Certainly Abraham van Helsing was hunting vampires in England at the time. The fame of the novel helped in founding the van Helsing Institute some years later in 1906, when Abraham had grown too old for hunting and was content to settle down and teach about the supernatural. And about hunting vampires. Abraham van Helsing was ahead of his time in believing most supernatural creatures could be treated as animals. Give a gargoyle or troll room to live in and it’s only dangerous if you bother it, and you’ll gain more by studying it than killing it. Lycanthropes are simply victims of a mysterious disease. But vampires were a different matter. By their very nature vampires hunted humans, and so must be destroyed.

 

Abraham van Helsing died in 1911 but the Institute was taken over by his son Noel. In 1928 King George V made the van Helsing Institute the official royal agency for hunting vampires in the British Isles. The Institute suffered a setback in 1944 when it was discovered family black sheep Maximilian van Helsing had aided the Nazi Millennium Project, trying to create an army of unhumans to save the Reich. The project was destroyed but to distance themselves from Maximilian’s treachery, the family name was changed simply to Helsing. In the 50’s Arthur Helsing was knighted in recognition of the service the family had rendered to Britain in the previous decades.

 

The Helsing Institute has often clashed with Iscariot during missions in Northern Ireland but until recently has remained purely in the British Isles. When the US Supreme Court made it legal to be a vampire, it was decided to open campus in the Unites States as well, to take this chance to observe vampires when they let their guard down.

 

Campaign Notes:

 

Mina: Was she in much pain?

Van Helsing: Ja, but then I drove a stake into her heart and cut off her head.

 

The Hellsing Organization for the purposes of my game becomes the Helsing Institute. In the original novel, Abraham van Helsing was equal parts scholar, doctor and occultist. So founding an institute to study the praeternatural makes sense, and it fits the campaign very well for me. Allowing the PC's to be based out of a US branch of the Helsing Institute leads naturally to both missions to hunt as well as study and the Institute itself can act as a center for RP. Someday I’ll even decide on a city to base it in. Right now probably San Angelo.

 

The Order of Iscariot

 

We are the earthly agents of divine punishment! - Paladin Alexander Anderson -

 

Background: The twelve sections of the Vatican are named after the twelve disciples: Simon Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the Lesser, Thaddaeus, and Matthias. Each section is headed by a Cardinal and has it’s own assigned areas of responsibility. But the destruction of supernatural beings is left to Section XIII, also called the Order of Iscariot. The origin of Iscariot is shrouded in mystery and often linked to the Knights Templar. Often walking hand in hand with the Inquisition, Iscariot made war on vampires, lycanthropes, witches and animators as well as the preternatural creatures that plagued Europe at the time.

 

Though younger vampires often mockingly refer to Section XIII as ‘Judas Priests’ older vampires know no other group has destroyed more of them, than Iscariot. In 1786 on the Day of Cleansing, Iscariot secretly coordinated an assault by their agents and the militaries of every country in Europe save France. Building were burned, people died, and by the time it was over nearly 500 vampires are believed to have been destroyed

 

In the present day, Section XIII operates in all predominately Catholic countries as the primary agency to destroy the supernatural, in addition to more secret strikes against those who threaten the Church elsewhere. They are emphatically not welcome in the United States, but that’s never stopped them before. They are on a mission from God.

 

Campaign Notes:

 

Don’t make us go on another crusade!

 

What’s not to like about Iscariot. Take a cool name and mysterious origins. Add a dash of religious fanaticism. Stir in a thousand years collecting mystic artifacts and forbidden lore. Make the opposition every supernatural thing in the world. I could run a whole campaign based around that.

 

Do you think the Buddhists have people like us? - Sister Yumiko (Iscariot Agent) –

[Rick]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Hmmm, If you like these I understand you'll probably enjoy the Dresden Files as well...http://www.jim-butcher.com/ this is the author's website...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Is Judas Iscariot really a good choice for a Christian organization? He is the guy who sold Christ out.

 

There are angels, I believe, who are supposed to be these great monster hunters. You can probably find some good names in Milton's "Paradise Lost", but it's been so long since I've read it that I can't really remember any.

[Black Omega]

Re: An exercise in World Building (My new game)

 

Hmmm' date=' If you like these I understand you'll probably enjoy the Dresden Files as well...http://www.jim-butcher.com/ this is the author's website...[/quote']

 

I wasn't sure about the Dresden files, though I did seem the books at a friendly local bookstore recently. The blurb made it sound more lighthearted than I like. After you mentioned the books I did a fast look up and found Jim Butcher had described Storm Front as a LKH ripoff. The comments from his fans make it obvious that's not true, but it at least sounds like the tone of the books is something I'd like. I'll check out the first book next chance I get.

 

Is Judas Iscariot really a good choice for a Christian organization? He is the guy who sold Christ out.

 

The name works very well for my purposes. Instantly recognizable, both religious and sinister. I could call it Section XIII Michael, but then I'd hear too many Michael Jordan jokes.

 

Books have been written on this already, it's true. Still, the betrayal was a neccesarily part of the chain of events. Similarly, the task of Section XIII is doing those necessary things that must be done, no matter how dangerous or loathesome. Rather than Milton, who does give a rather sympathetic view of Lucifer at times, mix in Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor as someone doing what he sees as necessary sin in order to save others from sin.

 

Might very well work better as a secret or quasi secret organization. This is why I think out loud while working on the world, to get ideas and find things I might have over looked.