Ring Ring go away....

[simplygnome]

If I make a Multi-power with OIF, does every power have to be for the same focus if I want to apply the limitation to the base points as well?

 

My current problem is that I have a player trying to make a Mandarin like character who uses several different power rings. Each ring has a specific "shtick" to it. They are definately OIF, but Im wondering if its rules legal to make one huge multipower and call it "Power Rings MP" with each different ring being its own separate focus....If he loses that SPECIFIC ring, he cant use that specific power, etc etc...

 

Some of the rings will have several powers attached to it, while others might only have one. He'll never beable to use more than one ring at a time.

 

If I make each ring separately, it becomes too expensive. The only other idea is to not use a MP and put the LOCKOUT disad from 5er on each power along with OIF..Thats still way more expensive than an MP though..

 

Any other options Im missing?

[OddHat]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Personally, I'd be OK with a multipower that had OIF: Ring Collection. After all, Power Armor has gauntlets, boots, a Helmet, Greaves, Breastplate, etc, but it's all one OIF.

[Mike W]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

1. Make it an EC instead.

2. Be sure that it sould be OIF. The Mandarin should be built Only in Hero ID since his rings have left his possession exactly TWICE in his entire history(and he was apparently killed/had his body destroyed both times), excluding when he voluntarily gave them to an agent - but even then the rings would teleport back to him automatically. And he can track them. I've never seen them damaged, grabbed, or targeted in a fight.

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

OAF is more about being damaged in a fight...OIF is very hard to disable while fighting, but is more for removing outside of combat.

 

I do not beleive the Mandarin had OIHID. The Mandarin did have his rings unavailable to him at times. He didnt always have the ability to teleport them to him but learned it later in his career. The player in question will NOT beable to do so.

 

The reason you never saw the Mandarin lose his rings more is because he was an ANTAGONIST and not the main character (who was Iron Man mostly) that the comic was featuring. We see more of the GOODGUYS at a disadvantage because we follow them around more....

 

I also do not think that an EC applies. What -relatively common- drain is appropriate that would simultaneously drain away all of his powers? Also, I do NOT want the player able to use the powers at the same time.

 

The fact is, the player -cannot- use his powers without the rings. If this is ever discovered and he is KOed, the enemies WILL take advantage of that....

 

Thanks for the reply, but I don't think I'll use that particular idea set....

[Nadrakas]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

If I make a Multi-power with OIF' date=' does every power have to be for the same focus if I want to apply the limitation to the base points as well?[/b']

 

My current problem is that I have a player trying to make a Mandarin like character who uses several different power rings. Each ring has a specific "shtick" to it. They are definately OIF, but Im wondering if its rules legal to make one huge multipower and call it "Power Rings MP" with each different ring being its own separate focus....If he loses that SPECIFIC ring, he cant use that specific power, etc etc...

 

Some of the rings will have several powers attached to it, while others might only have one. He'll never beable to use more than one ring at a time.

 

If I make each ring separately, it becomes too expensive. The only other idea is to not use a MP and put the LOCKOUT disad from 5er on each power along with OIF..Thats still way more expensive than an MP though..

 

Any other options Im missing?

 

 

Simply Gnome,

 

I would say yes, and here is why.

 

On page 320 of 5ER, right column, third paragraph from the bottom -- "Jason Starward builds..............." In short, a Multipower is built with a -1/4 Side Effect, with each slot being a different side effect. I would say that this alone would also make a different Focus for each Multipower Slot legal for the Rings.

 

 

Here is another example.

 

On page 238 of Hudson City, under the character Card Shark, there is a multipower (Deadly Cards, OIF - multiple OIF stored in a sash) where each slot is a different Focus (Razor Card, Flare Card, Blast Card). This alone would tend to make the different Mandarin Rings viable & legal.

 

 

Now...I would personally (IMHO) restrict each ring to having only one power with each being an Ultra Slot, but that is up to you.

 

 

Other characters have had similar related Multipower/Elemental Control Limitations, wherein a Limitation is overall the same, but each slot is a slight variation of the Limitation (ie: Deadly Cards = multiple cards; Gun Armory = Multiple Holstered Guns; etc)

 

Hope this helped.

 

 

Nadrakas...

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Simply Gnome,

 

I would say yes, and here is why.

 

On page 320 of 5ER, right column, third paragraph from the bottom -- "Jason Starward builds..............." In short, a Multipower is built with a -1/4 Side Effect, with each slot being a different side effect. I would say that this alone would also make a different Focus for each Multipower Slot legal for the Rings.

 

 

Here is another example.

 

On page 238 of Hudson City, under the character Card Shark, there is a multipower (Deadly Cards, OIF - multiple OIF stored in a sash) where each slot is a different Focus (Razor Card, Flare Card, Blast Card). This alone would tend to make the different Mandarin Rings viable & legal.

 

 

Now...I would personally (IMHO) restrict each ring to having only one power with each being an Ultra Slot, but that is up to you.

 

 

Other characters have had similar related Multipower/Elemental Control Limitations, wherein a Limitation is overall the same, but each slot is a slight variation of the Limitation (ie: Deadly Cards = multiple cards; Gun Armory = Multiple Holstered Guns; etc)

 

Hope this helped.

 

 

Nadrakas...

 

 

YES, that did help - Thank you. And now I feel silly as it all just makes sense. A standard GUN Multipower has long been used to build a set of guns that have different effects, yet each gun in different. A Batman-esque Utilitybelt MP (unless youre of the opinion that he has a VPP, heh.) would easily be OAF (or OIF if you read below), based on different focuses...

 

Also if you read RIGHT below the example you gave me on pg 320 of 5er, theres a rule set of Varying Limitations..Not EXACTLY what Im talking about, as it deals with different limitations on the VPP and the Slots, but still...

 

Anyhow, thank you...Also YES, I am making them ultra slots and each ring will only have one power...mostly. There are a few sets of powers that will go on a few of the rings (like one ringe which enhances the wearers mind abilites, giving him minor telepathy AND a small TK forceshield....Or another that have a small variety of energy blasts, such as a large blast and a small rapid fire blast...).

 

Thank you....

[incrdbil]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Well, since the rings are OIF, the only way he's losing a ring if he is incapitated for a while, so a flat 1-2 across the board, and just ruling it a special effect that each slot is associated with a ring.

 

Or, use oif for the slots, but just give the multipower reserve cost itself only a -1/4 limitation, since the only way to deprive him of the MP is to take all of the rings.

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

I agree...probably going with the -1/2 for the rings, -1/4 for the pool....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

I agree...probably going with the -1/2 for the rings' date=' -1/4 for the pool....[/quote']

 

Maybe I'm an old softie, but I'd give him -1/2 for the pool as well. If he's KO'd, and an opponent knows he derives one power from one ring, and that he's weraring multiple rings, will he really only take the one he's sure is a focus?

 

They can be damaged in combat. A normal focus loses one power each time it takes BOD. If they were all in one ring, he loses one random power. If they're in separate rings, an attacker can pick which specific power will be targeted (assuming he's seen the ring that has that effect).

[The Hyborian]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

The individual slots would be OIF (-1/2), no doubt.

 

If you put the OIF on the reserve as well, there has to be something that can be taken away from the character that disables the whole MP. Perhaps a mystical doo-hickey in his belt that is the "battery" for the whole thing, or something similar. To qualify for the disadvantage you have to be able to take a focus from the character that would remove the reserve points, and thus make the whole thing ineffective. The classic example is the "Utility belt". The reserve is a OIF belt. If the character looses the belt all the powers are gone until he gets it back. The individual slots can be an OIF, or some other focus limitation (perhaps some are accessable, perhaps some are inobvious, whatever.). If you lose the slot focus just the slot is gone, if you loose the reserve focus you are out of business.

 

So, unless you want to go the "battery" route, or devise something similar, the reserve is probably not OIF. It might be Only In Hero ID, if the character has a secret ID that he does not wear his rings in, and has to take a few phases to pull them out of his pockets/utlitiy belt/velvet underwear/wherever he keeps them and put them on. If he wears them all the time then he probably gets no disadvantage points, as he always has access to the MP reserve to fuel his rings.

 

Just my $.03. (rising costs, sorry.)

 

T.H.

[Nadrakas]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

YES, that did help - Thank you. And now I feel silly as it all just makes sense. A standard GUN Multipower has long been used to build a set of guns that have different effects, yet each gun in different. A Batman-esque Utilitybelt MP (unless youre of the opinion that he has a VPP, heh.) would easily be OAF (or OIF if you read below), based on different focuses...

 

Also if you read RIGHT below the example you gave me on pg 320 of 5er, theres a rule set of Varying Limitations..Not EXACTLY what Im talking about, as it deals with different limitations on the VPP and the Slots, but still...

 

Anyhow, thank you...Also YES, I am making them ultra slots and each ring will only have one power...mostly. There are a few sets of powers that will go on a few of the rings (like one ringe which enhances the wearers mind abilites, giving him minor telepathy AND a small TK forceshield....Or another that have a small variety of energy blasts, such as a large blast and a small rapid fire blast...).

 

Thank you....

 

 

Simply Gnome,

 

No problem. Glad to be of assistance to a fellow Heroite!

 

 

One request...could I get a copy of the "power" write-up. Been thinking of doing something along this line for a while, but never got around to it.

 

 

Nadrakas...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

The individual slots would be OIF (-1/2), no doubt.

 

If you put the OIF on the reserve as well, there has to be something that can be taken away from the character that disables the whole MP. Perhaps a mystical doo-hickey in his belt that is the "battery" for the whole thing, or something similar. To qualify for the disadvantage you have to be able to take a focus from the character that would remove the reserve points, and thus make the whole thing ineffective. The classic example is the "Utility belt". The reserve is a OIF belt. If the character looses the belt all the powers are gone until he gets it back. The individual slots can be an OIF, or some other focus limitation (perhaps some are accessable, perhaps some are inobvious, whatever.). If you lose the slot focus just the slot is gone, if you loose the reserve focus you are out of business.

 

So, unless you want to go the "battery" route, or devise something similar, the reserve is probably not OIF. It might be Only In Hero ID, if the character has a secret ID that he does not wear his rings in, and has to take a few phases to pull them out of his pockets/utlitiy belt/velvet underwear/wherever he keeps them and put them on. If he wears them all the time then he probably gets no disadvantage points, as he always has access to the MP reserve to fuel his rings.

 

Just my $.03. (rising costs, sorry.)

 

T.H.

 

Not necessarily. If the rings are a "set" in that they are seperate objects but are always together (the character either has all of them, or all are taken at the same time), then it could still be OIF. The SFX is that they are seperate objects but the mechanic need not be.

 

Of course, there is a rule for Foci about having several seperate objects representing your Power.

[Mike W]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Actually, any focus can be targeted in combat. It's just that an inaccessible one can't be taken easily. But you can still make attacks against it, attempt to break it, or disable it in some way.

 

So again, by NOW, Mandarin buying the rings as a focus isn't really accurate because it's virtually impossible to take the rings away from him(only slightly easier than taking Thor's hammer from him). And for the record, since his rings are based on alien technology. A tech drain could theoretically work, of course, the rings are so powerful that it would need to be one HECK of a drain. And of course, they are shielded.

 

OK, if you want the guy to only use one ring at a time - a MP might work. But I was going by your "Mandarin -like" comment and an MP wouldn't work for him. Also, how do you intend to resolve the multiple powers=one ring thing since you can't have multiple powers in the same slot?

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

One request...could I get a copy of the "power" write-up. Been thinking of doing something along this line for a while, but never got around to it.

 

 

Nadrakas...

 

Sure thing. I should have it done in about a weeks time, or maybe a bit longer.

 

Instead of a technological storyline, however, the player is going with an anciet oriental mystic background, with possibly some outside interference (alien race, etc). Not too sure yet. We're still fleshing everything out....

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Maybe I'm an old softie, but I'd give him -1/2 for the pool as well. If he's KO'd, and an opponent knows he derives one power from one ring, and that he's weraring multiple rings, will he really only take the one he's sure is a focus?

 

They can be damaged in combat. A normal focus loses one power each time it takes BOD. If they were all in one ring, he loses one random power. If they're in separate rings, an attacker can pick which specific power will be targeted (assuming he's seen the ring that has that effect).

 

Thinking about it, I agree. Thank you Hugh. If one ring goes, the others probably go with it....Now there might be other occasions, but I think it should be okay. The "Ten Rings" thing is really just a special effect anyhow, and the only reason JUST ONE would be taken away is through GM specific plotline ANYHOW. Ill probably just slap a -1/2 on the base as well...

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

One question, why WOULDNT a player just say theyre UNBREAKABLE FOCI??? Whats the real disadvantage considering the cost differential is 0???

[Mike W]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Breakable/unbreakable has to be a GM call as much as a player call, based on the special effect/write up of the character/item.

 

Unbreakable focus: Cap's shield, Black Knight's ebony blade(these are unique items that can never be duplicated)

 

Breakable focus: Iron Man's armor(rare item, but it could be replaced/duplicated given time)

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Okay, well he DEFINATELY cannot replace any of these rings himself....He does not have ANY of the proper skills to repair them either. So Id have to say it would be unbreakable....

 

But now we have to look at letting him take the -1/4 vs the -1/2 since they cant be targeted now....Earlier I was willing to let him take the pool as a -1/2 since each individual ring could actually be targeted vs the random effect of a normal focus, but now Im not too sure.

 

Maybe I could just say that its a normal focus and a "hit" to it just drains the energy of the ring, making it useless until it gets a chance to recover its energy (maybe through meditation?). That could be a way he "repairs" his rings.

...but then again, he cannot "duplicate" them if stolen...EVER. These babies are one of a kind.

 

Ideas? Comments?

[Mike W]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Just because he doesn't have the skills to repair them,doesn't make them unbreakable. What is the origin of the rings themselves? After all, War Machine(Jim Rhodes) couldn't repair the armor that Tony Stark made for him but it was definitely a breakable item. Remember, the power of these items will determine their DEF and BODY, so they are going to be very tough to break anyway, especially given their size. It would be really tough to target them in combat.

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

True, however, if I DO target them in combat, they will NOT have ANY way to be restored, as per storyline...So like Captain A's shield, it should probably be unbreakable. GLs ring was "unbreakable" for the most part, in that it was NEVER targeted in combat....However it could be broken, but that was never taken advantage of in combat.

 

Either way, there is NO WAY ON EARTH (literally) anyone can fix these rings....

 

They are old, ancient oriental relics used by many masters throughout history. A skilled chinese artisan received a dream about these ten rings of wonderous power. Upon waking he was driven to craft them to exactness. He spent over seventy years of his life making the ten beautiful masterpieces, and sadly died when the tenth one was finished.

 

Secretly the designs were send down to earth by an alien race that knew humans would one day develop into powerful beings. The designs were sent down as a test to humanity to see how it would react to power. They are alien devices that feed off of human emotions as batteries (hence they are NOT build with an END reserve, or used with NO end). The rings respond to the wearers beliefs and desires, and have the potential to either empower the earth or help humanity destroy itself.

 

A small storyline ensues to get the main character in possesion of the rings (and partially trained with them). And thats that....although NONE of this is set in stone YET...

[Mike W]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Given that background, I would agree that they probably should count as "unbreakable".

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Actually, I like your theory that, if "broken", he must meditate to repair them. He could also have the ability to meditate to replace/summon back a stolen ring (using timeframes simialr to repairing a technological device). NOte that this doesn't have to mean he knows how to create similar rings, or even how this works, just that it can be done.

 

If they are unbreakable, I would generally rule if it's stolen, he will have to find a way to retrieve it, or limp along without that ring. Cap's shield doesn't mystically return to him if stolen. The Black Knight has been astablished as able to summon his sword, but only after a lengthy ritual.

 

I'd let the player choose between "breakable" but "replaceable" in some mystic fashion, or unbreakable, but if taken away he'll have to get the original back to recover the powers, with the caveat that this will be posible (although not necessaruily immediate) if he doesn't make them Independent.

[Mortuorum`]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Just because he doesn't have the skills to repair them' date='doesn't make them unbreakable. What is the origin of the rings themselves? [/quote']The rings were alien artifacts he found on a crashed spaceship. IIRC, he had to adapt them to their present use after spending time studying the alien tech, so he does presumably have the expertise to repair them if they get damaged.

 

OTOH, as far as I know they've never actually been destroyed or even damaged and their components are effectively irreplacable, so if I were the Mandarin's player, I'd say that they were indestrucable foci.

 

As ar as buying them goes, I don't have my rulebook handy, but I think technically you'd have to buy the multipower itself without the Focus Limitation and then apply an OIF Limitation to each slot. Speaking as a GM, I'd allow a player with this FX to apply the OIF Limitation to the entire Multipower.

 

EDIT: Here is the Marvel Directory entry for the Mandarin, which contains a nice synopsis of his history and his rings' powers.

[simplygnome]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

Thanks for the link Mortuorum....I actually have an old comic that goes step by step into each of the Mandarins rings as well...

 

However, we are not dupliucating him directly...If you read above you can find my synopsis of the character history and what not. The alien technology bit is twisted around here a little....

 

And actually yes you can buy OIF for the whole bit. Check page 320 in 5er for an example.

 

Thanks for the help guys....

[Mike W]

Re: Ring Ring go away....

 

The rings were alien artifacts he found on a crashed spaceship. IIRC, he had to adapt them to their present use after spending time studying the alien tech, so he does presumably have the expertise to repair them if they get damaged.

 

OTOH, as far as I know they've never actually been destroyed or even damaged and their components are effectively irreplacable, so if I were the Mandarin's player, I'd say that they were indestrucable foci.

 

As ar as buying them goes, I don't have my rulebook handy, but I think technically you'd have to buy the multipower itself without the Focus Limitation and then apply an OIF Limitation to each slot. Speaking as a GM, I'd allow a player with this FX to apply the OIF Limitation to the entire Multipower.

 

EDIT: Here is the Marvel Directory entry for the Mandarin, which contains a nice synopsis of his history and his rings' powers.

 

Right, I know the history of Mandarin's rings. Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was referring to the history of the player's rings.