stress

[Foxx!]

Heroes!

 

What do you think about making a stress parameter? As your stress becomes too high, you suffer penalties to all rolls: attacks, skills, PER, and so on. Maybe it can make play more interesting, but I want it to be simple. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

I'm thinking of something like Long Term Endurance rules. The group has been in a cave for 5 days. On the same day, the character had a severe encounter with a Psychological Limitation. A character made a big mistake or failed a roll that was very important. A DNPC or Rival is involved. You want to hurry up with the mission because you have other plans.

 

Cheers!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: stress

 

Hmm... sounds rather like the old "Shock and Stress" rules from Horror HERO. Exposure to massively shocking events, or prolonged exposure to stressful situations, could result in penalties to Skill and Combat Rolls, greater susceptibility to Presence Attacks, and even short- or long-term Psychological Limitations. That system is probably more detailed and involved than you would like, though.

 

Your idea of running this like Long-Term END loss has merit, and reminds me of some of the elements of the Stress mechanic above. My preliminary thought is to combine some elements of each of these. The following are just very preliminary suggestions:

 

When a character is in a stressful situation that lasts a long time, assign a level of "Presence Attack" dice that you think is appropriate for that stress. This will be the effect on the character of being in that situation. The Presence Attack would be rolled each day, hour or whatever time interval you prefer, as well as whenever an event occurs which increases the overall stress of the environment, temporarily or permanently.

 

If the effect of this environmental PA exceeds the EGO or PRE of a character, that character will suffer a -1 penalty to all the Rolls that you would want to be affected. The penalty could be increased for each step up the Presence Attack chart, e.g. -2 for a +10 effect, -3 for +20, etc. Recovering these penalties would require rest away from any stressful situation, comparable to recovering from LTE expenditure. Recovery could be based on the victim's EGO score, translating as X points in penalties recovered every Y time interval.

 

Well, that's the best I could come up with at the moment.

[Dust Raven]

Re: stress

 

Why do you keep bothering me with all these stressful ad hoc rules questions?! I can't take anymore!

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

 

Honestly, I don't make rulings on stress too often. As a condition for NPCs, it either means they do nothing (worthwhile) or they succeed or fail at my whim rather than a skill roll. For a PC, I generally leave it up to the player if they want any modifiers. Usually we'll write off a failed roll due to stress sometimes and a successful roll under stress as lucky, even though there were no penalties involved.

 

If I ever had to make a ruling, for extended stressful situations or whatever, I'd probably rule that all actions are considered hasty unless extra time was spent performing them. Basically, however long any particular task would normally take, I'd step it up the time chart one step. They can either perform it at the normal time with the standard -3 penalty, or they can take the longer time without a penalty, or even longer and actually get a bonus (but they could be taking a riduculous amount of time then, such as 5 minutes for a 1 Turn action).

[Vondy]

Re: stress

 

It is appropriate for a limited number of sub-genres, but as a general rule I would be against it.

[Guyon]

Re: stress

 

In comics stress can be a factor. If you were to use it, then only under extreme situation.

 

i.e.

-1to all activaites till Aunt May get out of surgery.

[Foxx!]

Re: stress

 

Hmm... sounds rather like the old "Shock and Stress" rules from Horror HERO. Exposure to massively shocking events, or prolonged exposure to stressful situations, could result in penalties to Skill and Combat Rolls, greater susceptibility to Presence Attacks, and even short- or long-term Psychological Limitations. That system is probably more detailed and involved than you would like, though.

 

Your idea of running this like Long-Term END loss has merit, and reminds me of some of the elements of the Stress mechanic above. My preliminary thought is to combine some elements of each of these. The following are just very preliminary suggestions:

 

When a character is in a stressful situation that lasts a long time, assign a level of "Presence Attack" dice that you think is appropriate for that stress. This will be the effect on the character of being in that situation. The Presence Attack would be rolled each day, hour or whatever time interval you prefer, as well as whenever an event occurs which increases the overall stress of the environment, temporarily or permanently.

 

If the effect of this environmental PA exceeds the EGO or PRE of a character, that character will suffer a -1 penalty to all the Rolls that you would want to be affected. The penalty could be increased for each step up the Presence Attack chart, e.g. -2 for a +10 effect, -3 for +20, etc. Recovering these penalties would require rest away from any stressful situation, comparable to recovering from LTE expenditure. Recovery could be based on the victim's EGO score, translating as X points in penalties recovered every Y time interval.

 

Well, that's the best I could come up with at the moment.

It sounds perfect! I’ve never seen Horror Hero so I didn’t know about Shock and Stress. Thank you for writing that.

 

Why do you keep bothering me with all these stressful ad hoc rules questions?! I can't take anymore!

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

 

Honestly, I don't make rulings on stress too often. As a condition for NPCs, it either means they do nothing (worthwhile) or they succeed or fail at my whim rather than a skill roll. For a PC, I generally leave it up to the player if they want any modifiers. Usually we'll write off a failed roll due to stress sometimes and a successful roll under stress as lucky, even though there were no penalties involved.

 

If I ever had to make a ruling, for extended stressful situations or whatever, I'd probably rule that all actions are considered hasty unless extra time was spent performing them. Basically, however long any particular task would normally take, I'd step it up the time chart one step. They can either perform it at the normal time with the standard -3 penalty, or they can take the longer time without a penalty, or even longer and actually get a bonus (but they could be taking a riduculous amount of time then, such as 5 minutes for a 1 Turn action).

You make a good point. Some people do better when stressed. Slowing down and taking extra time is also a good idea. I like that effect.

 

 

Thank you to the people who suggest reasons for not using it. I agree it shouldn’t be used often. It should fit the situation or character, and I want it to make the game more dramatic, not more irritating.

 

Cheers!

[CourtFool]

Re: stress

 

I like Lord Liaden's approach. If you want something more simple I would say an EGO roll when you deem they should be stressed. Failure = -1 to all rolls.

[prestidigitator]

Re: stress

 

Good ideas, but I think this is something that is best decided on the fly by the GM as appropriate for the given situation. I do this kind of thing all the time. Some examples might be giving temporary Psychological Limitations (e.g. irritable, depressed, goofy) or even Physical Limitations (e.g. irritable bowls, prone to sickness, insomnia, chronic or sudden weakness). I'll figure the mood of the party and/or character into the result of Presence Attacks and the use of Social Skills. I'll assign penalties on total End, or increase the rate at which Long Term End is used, or any number of other things. Whatever the situation merits!

[Foxx!]

Re: stress

 

If you want something more simple I would say an EGO roll when you deem they should be stressed. Failure = -1 to all rolls.

I like that idea too. Thank you.

 

Cheers!

[Sean Waters]

Re: stress

 

Erm, I'd relate stress to Ego, personally: someone confident in themselves is less likely to get upset by what goes on around them.

 

If you wanted a stress mechanism, I'd be inclined to (as previously suggested) use presence attacks to reduce it: a PRE attack that exceeds PRE or EGO causes 1 'damage' and each +5 or +10 causes 1 more, depending on how quick you want the players to flip out...

 

Record the 'damage' and, when it reaches the level of your EGO, you gain a temporary psychological limitation (or other appropriate disadvantage), preferably related to the stress at normal level. Each additional 10 points of damage increases the seriousness of the condition up to Total.

 

A completely different stress source would start a new damage track rather than adding to your current one, and would result in a different psych lim. For example, being exposed to blood and gore might (eventually) cause you to become cowardly, whilst exposure to tax demands might eventually cause you to become homicidal....

 

'Damage' can be healed by rest, therapy and some powers, as well as other 'one off' cures, like successfully overcoming the source of the stress.

 

This could also cover the situation where some people perform better under stress - they become monomaniac and concentrate everything on overcoming a problem - possibly to the detriment of other problems...

 

Also you are not limited to psych lims - you could get snraged/beserk, a physical lim (hysterical blindness, combat penalaties, whatever) or even a vulnerability or susceptibility: whatever fits.

[Trebuchet]

Re: stress

 

Extended periods of stress can also be fatiguing, and hence could trigger LTE in and of itself. Soldiers in combat for long intervals can become exhausted even if they haven't personally come under fire. The constant stress from not knowing if an artillery barrage or sniper will kill you or your buddies can, and often has, cause mental and eventually even physical collapse. Conversely, getting a soldier away from the front lines for a hot meal, a good night's sleep and most importantly no threat of imminent death can restore the soldier almost magically.

 

I think it largely has to depend on genre and duration. Supers are almost always under extreme stress ("If I fail, _________ dies!"), but it seldom seems to affect their performance negatively.

[Sean Waters]

Re: stress

 

The advantage of modelling stress and suchlike with disadvantages is that you could do fatigue (a phys lim) OR any other effect you felt was appropriate. You would treat it as a sort of mental transform, I suppose, that everyone is potentially subject to in the right situation...

[prestidigitator]

Re: stress

 

I think it largely has to depend on genre and duration. Supers are almost always under extreme stress ("If I fail' date=' _________ dies!"), but it seldom seems to affect their performance negatively.[/quote']

Except maybe for Spiderman...he has it pretty rough.

 

You would treat it as a sort of mental transform' date=' I suppose, that everyone is potentially subject to in the right situation...[/quote']

Mental and/or Physical, I think; while physical symptoms may be psychosomatic, in game terms they are real physical problems. In some settings, I suppose, even Spiritual Transforms may be appropriate for metaphysical symptoms: suddenly haunted by malevolent spirits who sense your anxiety? Struck by doses of Karma (i.e. Unluck) that reflect your hostile nature? Possessed by a demon who sensed a moment of weakness?

[Trebuchet]

Re: stress

 

Except maybe for Spiderman...he has it pretty rough.

Spider-Man and Batman are two supers who frequently feature injuries or fatigue in their storylines to add drama. That may be why they're two of my favorites; and why my own PC is a lighly defended character who gets injured fairly often.

[Sean Waters]

Re: stress

 

One bit I really appreciated in the DareDevil film was matt Murdock gulping down painkillers so he could move the next day...not quite the same, but...

[Dust Raven]

Re: stress

 

Thinking more on this, I like the idea of equating dealing with stress with making an EGO Roll. The description of EGO says it relates to willpower, and stress is the generic example of what you need willpower to overcome. If using my suggestion of having a stressful situation take longer or have a penalty, you can make an EGO roll to avoid that penalty, allowing you to perform the action in the normal time.

 

Other than that, their might a generic stress penalty related to something (like making an attack) which shouldn't take any longer regardless of the amount of stress. I think it's fair to allow an EGO roll to avoid that penalty, or any penalty at all assotiated with stress. The same way you'd make an EGO roll to avoid the affects of a Psychological Limitation.

[prestidigitator]

Re: stress

 

Thinking more on this, I like the idea of equating dealing with stress with making an EGO Roll. The description of EGO says it relates to willpower, and stress is the generic example of what you need willpower to overcome. If using my suggestion of having a stressful situation take longer or have a penalty, you can make an EGO roll to avoid that penalty, allowing you to perform the action in the normal time.

 

Other than that, their might a generic stress penalty related to something (like making an attack) which shouldn't take any longer regardless of the amount of stress. I think it's fair to allow an EGO roll to avoid that penalty, or any penalty at all assotiated with stress. The same way you'd make an EGO roll to avoid the affects of a Psychological Limitation.

How about making stress a NND/AVLD, and allowing people to use a Meditation Skill (Ego-based) to reduce or avert its affects?

[Trebuchet]

Re: stress

 

Thinking more on this, I like the idea of equating dealing with stress with making an EGO Roll. The description of EGO says it relates to willpower, and stress is the generic example of what you need willpower to overcome. If using my suggestion of having a stressful situation take longer or have a penalty, you can make an EGO roll to avoid that penalty, allowing you to perform the action in the normal time.

 

Other than that, their might a generic stress penalty related to something (like making an attack) which shouldn't take any longer regardless of the amount of stress. I think it's fair to allow an EGO roll to avoid that penalty, or any penalty at all assotiated with stress. The same way you'd make an EGO roll to avoid the affects of a Psychological Limitation.

This is going to give most Egoists a considerable advantage in combat, since they almost invariably have the highest EGOs. I'm not saying that should put the kibosh on your idea, but I do think it's something that bears consideration.

[Dust Raven]

Re: stress

 

How about making stress a NND/AVLD' date=' and allowing people to use a Meditation Skill (Ego-based) to reduce or avert its affects? [/quote']

 

[Dust Raven]

Re: stress

 

This is going to give most Egoists a considerable advantage in combat' date=' since they almost invariably have the highest EGOs. I'm not saying that should put the kibosh on your idea, but I do think it's something that bears consideration.[/quote']

 

Agreed, but then again, if you want to handle stress better, EGO is what I think you'd buy. So it also helps with Mental Powers... well, that's willpower as well, so I'm okay with that.

[zornwil]

Re: stress

 

I think this is a great idea, as stated, for certain genres. Depending on how important it is, I could see it as an additional figured or potentially even basic characteristic. As a base characteristic it could be interesting in that what you could do is tie it into all the key areas, such as STUN = (BOD/2) + (CON/2) + STRESS, END = CON+STRESS, and REC = (STRESS/5) + (CON/5). If a character thrives on stress, I would build some sort of absorption and/or triggered aid for stress damage, as in the types of genres in which you'd want stress to have a big impact you'd also not want characters to typically thrive on it, I'd think.

 

PS - you could also add something such as STRESS = 0 subtracts 3 from all skill rolls, -1 additional per -3 below 0 STRESS, and at negative STRESS equal to total STRESS the character snaps.

 

I like it!

[prestidigitator]

Re: stress

 

I think this is a great idea, as stated, for certain genres. Depending on how important it is, I could see it as an additional figured or potentially even basic characteristic. As a base characteristic it could be interesting in that what you could do is tie it into all the key areas, such as STUN = (BOD/2) + (CON/2) + STRESS, END = CON+STRESS, and REC = (STRESS/5) + (CON/5). If a character thrives on stress, I would build some sort of absorption and/or triggered aid for stress damage, as in the types of genres in which you'd want stress to have a big impact you'd also not want characters to typically thrive on it, I'd think.

 

PS - you could also add something such as STRESS = 0 subtracts 3 from all skill rolls, -1 additional per -3 below 0 STRESS, and at negative STRESS equal to total STRESS the character snaps.

 

I like it!

I suppose we could call it, "Sanity," and infringe upon another game system.

[zornwil]

Re: stress

 

I suppose we could call it' date=' "Sanity," and infringe upon another game system. [/quote']

Heh, my way it sounds original!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: stress

 

Well, there is an optional "Sanity" Figured Characteristic described under the "Other Genres - Horror" section of the genre-emulating chapter in 5ER, and in the HERO System Genre By Genre PDF. If you used it you could definitely have fun with Adjustment Powers vs SAN.