Standard Bricks Tricks MP

[Agent333]

Lately it seems my design of Bricks has taken a shift for the different. I'm not sure if it's the worst or best thing to happen, but since I may post a few of these for review in the future, I wanted to know if anyone has critiques to the following construct.

 

The last few Bricks I've made have been the standard TUB types w/ 60 STR and lots of CON and DEF. In addition I've been unable to stop myself from using a Multipower on each of them to standardize the "I'm super-strong" gimmick.

 

30 Brick Tricks Multipower (active: 30)

3u. #1) Pushing STR +30; 2x END (-1/2) 6

3u. #2) Rend and Tear HKA 2D6 3

3u. #3) Spearhand Armor Piercing on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

 

Depending on the character, slots 1 and 2 exchange with the following:

 

Shockwave Explode on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

Debris Toss HA +5D6; Range based on Strength (+1/4), OIF [object of opportunity] (-1/2), Hand Attack (-1/2) 3

Arm-sweep AE: one hex on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

Distance Punch Dispel vs. KB Resistance 5D6; Does KB (+1/4), Double KB (+3/4), No Range (-1/2), Linked with Punch (-1/2) 3

Superleap Leaping +10"; 16x NCM (+20 points)

 

 

So far, in play, the characters hold up well and REALLY feel like gods among men. Are there any problems you guys forsee with using this MP as a unofficial "standard" for bricks? What would you likely say to a player who brought a charcter to you with a variation of this MP?

 

Many thanks in advance

[Bloodstone]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

I'm a bricks tricks MP addict. My main brick is also something of a Metamorph/Boxer/Wrestler though, so you have to realise that I LOVE versatility in a fight.

 

That said, here are some things that might be problematic, depending on the campaign style and various point limits:

 

Rend and Tear is very messy. Check with GM to find out if the campaign is Iron Age enough to deal with this sort of thing

 

Spearhand uses a naked advantage in an MP. You need GM approval for that. And it's also effectivly a 90pt attack, so if there are point resriction in place then folks may have issues with it.

 

The Shockwave: Every time you use it, you and everything you are carrying takes 12d6 damage. I'd almost definitly Add Hole in the Middle.

 

By the rules, Debris Toss must be writen up as a Physical EB with the Range Based on STR limitation.

 

Arm Sweep is another naked advantage that needs approval and is effectivly a 90pt attack. It's also fricking evil and I say that from experience. MA's and Speedsters will absolutly DESPISE you...

 

Distance Punch: I don't believe this construct quite works, at least not until the second time you hit the target with it. I think they get their full KB resistance against the initial Dispel/Punch, and would take knockback as appropriate. The the Dispel effect kicks in afterwards. Don't have my book in front of me though to check the order of operations.

 

I would not put a travel power into my Combat MP.

[Agent333]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Thanks Bloodstone. The Active point limit compared to naked advantage is a sticky point in HERO and it confuses the heck out of me that official characters everywhere do it. I'll give my reasons for some of the things I did, but I can see that there are going to be things I'd have to drop when submitting to a GM (perhaps).

 

Rend and Tear is very messy. Check with GM to find out if the campaign is Iron Age enough to deal with this sort of thing

 

When referring to the stun lottery, yeah it very well can be. I bought it since it changes 60 AP of Normal Damage into 60 AP of Killing Damage. It's something I planned on using on unliving objects, but villains would not be so kind.

 

The Shockwave: Every time you use it, you and everything you are carrying takes 12d6 damage. I'd almost definitly Add Hole in the Middle.

 

Good point about the equipment carried being damaged. I like that it damages the character at this level since it means that it's a desperation move the brick shouldn't use too often

 

By the rules, Debris Toss must be writen up as a Physical EB with the Range Based on STR limitation.

 

Another confusing bit of the rules where characters w/ Martial Art weapons get a Range Based on Str for themselves, but a larger missile thrown gets different rules. The writeup seems legal enough, but you're right that some GMs are gonna want the EB instead.

 

Arm Sweep is another naked advantage that needs approval and is effectivly a 90pt attack. It's also fricking evil and I say that from experience. MA's and Speedsters will absolutly DESPISE you...

 

heh heh...

 

Distance Punch: I don't believe this construct quite works, at least not until the second time you hit the target with it. I think they get their full KB resistance against the initial Dispel/Punch, and would take knockback as appropriate. The the Dispel effect kicks in afterwards. Don't have my book in front of me though to check the order of operations.

 

I expect that the punch lands as normal, but the Dispel hits right after. On average it will dispel KBR of -9" or less and do 10" of knockback its own self. This is based on MPA so both attacks should lands simultaneously. I use this construct in lieu of a Double KB naked advantage on STR since that's expensive and in the past hasn't given me enough KB anyway. My mileage has varied.

 

I would not put a travel power into my Combat MP.

 

Stricktly speaking, it's a super strength MP and meant to pick up a lot of slack on a character that has already spent about 300 points on other abilities and skills. I too prefer to have combat and movement powers seperate from each other. Here, it's a matter of strategy whether to move this action, do more damage, or be more accurate.

 

Again, thanks for the honest critique Bloodstone. But, unless some others get in here and tell me to straighten up my mess, I'm going to consider it a silent constent (the worst kind of consent; based on assumptions...)

[incrdbil]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

My reactions in a standard 12 DC campaign

 

30 Brick Tricks Multipower (active: 30)

3u. #1) Pushing STR +30; 2x END (-1/2) 6

 

Only for lifting/moving objects. Combined with pushed haymaker, the normally 12 DC character puts out 24DC.

 

3u. #2) Rend and Tear HKA 2D6 3

total of 4d6 HKA, ok with me

 

3u. #3) Spearhand Armor Piercing on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

Nope. 12d6 AP--effectively a 90 active point power.--its something the brick could work up to with XP, but I'm leary of multipowers with lots of naked advantages. I'd allow it as maybe a power purchased outside of a MP, maybe with charges that cost extra end.

 

Shockwave Explode on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

 

See above.

 

Debris Toss HA +5D6; Range based on Strength (+1/4), OIF [object of opportunity] (-1/2), Hand Attack (-1/2) 3

 

 

up to an 8d6 attack, no problem with that.

 

Arm-sweep AE: one hex on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

 

as GM, I'd hate to see all my villain martial artists rendered obsolete.

 

 

 

Distance Punch Dispel vs. KB Resistance 5D6; Does KB (+1/4), Double KB (+3/4), No Range (-1/2), Linked with Punch (-1/2) 3

 

I'd not allow the dispel KB resistance, unless the character somehow had gravity control, friction control or something like that. Maybe add HA only for knockback.

[CDad]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Lately it seems my design of Bricks has taken a shift for the different. I'm not sure if it's the worst or best thing to happen, but since I may post a few of these for review in the future, I wanted to know if anyone has critiques to the following construct.

 

The last few Bricks I've made have been the standard TUB types w/ 60 STR and lots of CON and DEF. In addition I've been unable to stop myself from using a Multipower on each of them to standardize the "I'm super-strong" gimmick.

 

30 Brick Tricks Multipower (active: 30)

3u. #1) Pushing STR +30; 2x END (-1/2) 6

3u. #2) Rend and Tear HKA 2D6 3

3u. #3) Spearhand Armor Piercing on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

 

So far, these are good choices. Pushing is nasty since I usually play with the EGO roll based Pushing rule. I have no problem with Rend and Tear, I've done it myself with a brick with Code Against Killing - he only uses it on machines/robots (with great effect). Spearhand can be... messy... on agents.

 

Depending on the character, slots 1 and 2 exchange with the following:

 

Shockwave Explode on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

Debris Toss HA +5D6; Range based on Strength (+1/4), OIF [object of opportunity] (-1/2), Hand Attack (-1/2) 3

Arm-sweep AE: one hex on 60 STR (+1/2) 3

Distance Punch Dispel vs. KB Resistance 5D6; Does KB (+1/4), Double KB (+3/4), No Range (-1/2), Linked with Punch (-1/2) 3

Superleap Leaping +10"; 16x NCM (+20 points)

 

Shockwave w/o a hole in the middle is brutal - you go flying, take a bit of damage... booyah! Maybe add Side Effects to show that it destroyes the surrounding area?

 

If I were GMing, I'd base max damage on the DEF+BODY of the object tossed, so Debris Toss would be less effective.

 

Arm Sweep... a true brick wet-dream, and a speedster's nightmare.

 

Distance Punch would be better off as "+1d6 HA; Hand Attack (-1/2), Double KB (+3/4) on 30 STR 3" or "Double KB (+3/4) on 40 STR 3" if the naked advantage is allowable.

 

For a 60 Active Points you could use Suppress 6d6 KNB, Does Knockback (+1/4), Double KB (+3/4)" and do a Multiple Power Attack with STR to send them flying (12d6 Punch with an additional 12" KB - that's ~100 feet on average)

 

I'd also not put a movement power in a combat MP.

 

So far, in play, the characters hold up well and REALLY feel like gods among men. Are there any problems you guys forsee with using this MP as a unofficial "standard" for bricks? What would you likely say to a player who brought a charcter to you with a variation of this MP?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Nicely done! There are plenty of tricks in Ultimate Bricks - I like your set. very well-rounded.

[Wanderer]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Ripping from my latest in progress character sheet:

 

STR 25

 

Strength (and Telekinetic) Powers: Multipower, 82-point reserve

 

1) Super-Strength: +80 STR (80 Active Points)

 

2) Super-Strength Tricks: +35 STR, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages (Area of Effect (One Hex), Armor Piercing, Indirect, Penetrating); +3/4) (80 Active Points)

 

3) Crushing and Rending: HKA 5d6+1 (80 Active Points)

[Trebuchet]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

The Shockwave: Every time you use it' date=' you and everything you are carrying takes 12d6 damage. I'd almost definitly Add Hole in the Middle.[/quote']If the character can't take a measly 12d6 EX Shockwave without flinching, he's not a real brick.

 

BTW, you'll save a lot of points with that shockwave by buying it "Only vs. Targets on the Ground". That's probably worth at least -1/2.

[incrdbil]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

 

BTW, you'll save a lot of points with that shockwave by buying it "Only vs. Targets on the Ground". That's probably worth at least -1/2.

 

Make it a full phase action as well, maybe even Concentrate. (Like a bricks DCV matters anyway).

[Victim]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

I also like to have a Thunderclap attack for AoE hearing flash. It makes sense to add a bit of damage from the pressure and also a Change Environment for Sight penalties that fades quickly from debris thrown into the air by the force of the shockwave.

[Vorsch]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Are the EB players allowed to bring a 18d6eb to the table?

 

Since Brick trick mps break all kinds of rules, then all other archetypes shoiuld be allowed all there unbalanced a downright cheesy effects.

[incrdbil]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Another confusing bit of the rules where characters w/ Martial Art weapons get a Range Based on Str for themselves, but a larger missile thrown gets different rules. The writeup seems legal enough, but you're right that some GMs are gonna want the EB instead.

 

As written, you only get to add Strength up to the active points of the bases HA dice, so the 5D6 hth ranged would only give you up to 25 Str more--then you have to reduce that strength in proprtion to the advantages on the hand attack power if you want to utilize that dvantage on the added strength damage. So 25 with a 1/2 limit =17 active strength, hence the 8d6 I came up with.

 

It's blatantly illegal to allow the full strength damaged to be ranged just because of buying the ranged advantage on the hand attack.

 

I expect that the punch lands as normal, but the Dispel hits right after. On average it will dispel KBR of -9" or less and do 10" of knockback its own self. This is based on MPA so both attacks should lands simultaneously.

 

It's a linked power--the defense is present at the time the attack hits. you don't let PD/ED drains affect a characters defense before calculating damage from a linked attack do you?

 

 

I use this construct in lieu of a Double KB naked advantage on STR since that's expensive and in the past hasn't given me enough KB anyway.

 

Well, the few points being spent only should give you so much effect, after all. The way its written, a few points of this attack is overcoming a heck of a lot of a defense (knockback resistance).

 

 

and, as I said before, the AP attack as a naked advantage in a multipower is pretty questionable, if not too powerful, as is the arm sweep. Playing an energy blaster in the game, I'd ask what incredibly cheap construct I get to use to add on multiple powerful advantages

[Zed-F]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Some notes:

 

I wouldn't allow the dispel-kb power. You might try a HA with double KB instead. The same goes for naked advantages in a multipower, buy a HA with the relevant advantage. I'll also note that AE powers are fine and you don't have to hit yourself. By the rules you can target your own hex or an adjacent hex with a hand-to-hand attack. So, your explosive HA just starts in the next hex over, no big deal. Unless you've been grabbed, that's almost certainly good enough.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

The default AoE of the Explosion Advantage is Radius. So even if the brick starts an explosion in the next hex over, it's still going to backblast and hit him square in the face.

 

As Treb said, this is probably not a concern for the bricks own well being, but it means he damn well better not use it while carrying anyone or anything of value.

[pinecone]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

One way to handle the naked advantage in a slot thang is to use advantaged HA's so a distance punch is HA X2 KB,(I'd add REnd so it's an even +1 advantage) and the AP is a HA AP, so if you're in a 12 DC world it's +4 D6 AP HA 30 points or add REnd>0 so it's 40, so with your str it's 8D6 AP.....

[Agent333]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Thanks to everyone for responding. I was woefully unaware that there was such a concensus about the Naked Advantage. It just deepens my curiosity on the subject and if anyone would point me towards old threads debating this I'd appreciate it.

[incrdbil]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

Thanks to everyone for responding. I was woefully unaware that there was such a concensus about the Naked Advantage. It just deepens my curiosity on the subject and if anyone would point me towards old threads debating this I'd appreciate it.

 

 

With a multipower, its so terribly easy to abuse naked advantages epecially with enough limits to turn 30 point ultra slots into 1 pointpurchases. Lets say your PC has rummaged up -1/2 of limits on average, and he wants ebs with all of the following

 

 

explosion

0 end

no range penalty

AP

vs Desol

variable special effects.

autofire

indirect

whatever I'm forgetting.

 

with a traditional multipower, its a different eb slot for each one..on a 12d6 base eb, that comes to 90 active--9/1 1/2 = 6 points per slot thats 54 points in slot osts alone for just the eb's.

 

But with ther naked advantage multipower, tht comes out 1 point per slot--and you only buy one EB in your original multipower. the entire cost of the reserve after limits plus slots is just 29 points. (and you can add more naked advantages easily for any other powers in the attack multipower)

 

So thats why naked advantages in frameworks raise a red flag--sure, their can be perfectly fine and allowable reasons, but its really easy to get carried away.

[Vorsch]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

If brick tricks are allowed then i see no reason that this wouldnt be allowed, it only breaks the same rules after all.

 

3/1.5 is 2

 

Here a good MP abuse

 

60 60 MP 1, generic energy

6 60 EB

6 60 RKA

6 60 Entangle

6 60 Flash

6 60

 

30 30 MP 2 Fine control

3 30 AP, naked adv

3 30 Auto fire 5 shots, naked adv

3 30 Explosion, naked adv

3 30 Affects desolid, naked adv

3 30 Reduced end 0 end, naked adv

 

saves about 100pts than if you actually had to buy all the combinations,looks abusive dosent it, but heres the trick

 

dont buy mp no 2, buy a 30pt VPP, no skill roll, limited to enhancements on the mp only (-1 easy)

 

45 pts, you only have to pay 7 more for cosmic.

 

MP route dosent seem so abusive now does it.

 

PS i view the controll cost of VPP way to cheap, should be double. "with great flexibility, comes great cost"

[Bloodstone]

Re: Standard Bricks Tricks MP

 

I don't think there's anything inherently WRONG with using naked advantages in this way. It's just that things can rapidly escalate out of control, which is why it definitly needs GM approval.

 

As is Strength is really cheep for the benefits it provides, so making Strength even more versatile for only a few extra points kinda adds insult to injury to any combat based character that isn't designed around STR, such as most energy projectors.

 

Edit: Yay! Vorsch just saved me the time of writing my "good for the goose, good for the gander" post regarding EP's.