Could your Champions character beat...

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

When I look at that character' date=' the last thing I see is a character concept. The numbers are just too efficient to be anything but power-gamed.[/quote']

 

 

Considering that you're not the one who played her for 3 years, I'm not giving your opinion too much credence.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1) Enhanced senses count. They give you more options if Flashed, Imaged, or Darkened. I counted Lariat's enhanced sense.

 

2) Nevertheless, those are examples that you put up. Your previous track record so to speak. And your track record says that you consider 6-12% of a character's points to be the norm.

 

1) Complete Android Breakdown:

 

(skills-acrobatics/breakfall)

==

57

 

talents

==

14

 

2 Gyros: Bump of Direction*

5 High Speed Audio Processor: Rapid Perception: x100 Hearing*

5 High Speed Scanner: Rapid Perception: x100 Sight*

2 Internal Clock: Absolute Time Sense*

8 Internal Radio: Enhanced Sense: High Range Radio Hearing*

16 Non-Identitative Database: Universal Translator 17-*

8 Olfactory Analyzer: Enhanced Senses: Discriminatory and Analytical Smell/Taste*

4 Primary Audio Processor: Enhanced Senses: Analytical Hearing*

4 Primary Optic Processor: Enhanced Senses: Analytical Sight*

==

54

 

(not counting the improved targeting of the senses.)

 

COM

==

10

 

135/750 (disregarding the follower who is seriously more of a liability than an asset, in combat or out of it...) = 18%.

 

 

Much more to the point, I didn't scale up my expectations of skills. He has about as many skills as I'd expect of a similiarly concepted 350 pt character (for comparison, see his follower, who has almost the exact same skill set, but is a 300 and something pt character - and pretty playable).

 

2) They aren't the only characters I've posted, and definately not the only hypothetical character fraction:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=383558

(260 pt character, already has 34 pts in skills and COM, not to mention the senses-that-are-useless-in-combat, before background skills)

 

(I did end up creating a character based around that fragment, actually.)

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=214217

 

(Wraith. This build actually only has 54pts of skills/perks, but was later modified to have more)

 

Oh, and re: the Extremes.

 

I've only been working on them for a few hours' date=' so they're a bit light on personality, background and the like. (character sheets, partial, below). [/quote']

 

Just to note that those characters actually all WERE what I consider to be light anyway.

 

What the heck. While I'm here...

 

Flame

 

(brief summary: Russian, sort of a cross between Cap and a fire elemental)

 

5 STR 15

39 DEX 23

20 CON 20

2 BOD 11

13 INT 23

2 EGO 11

18 PRE 28

2 COM 14

2 PD 5

1 ED 5

7 SPD 4

0 REC 7

0 END 40

1 STN 30

===

112

 

50 Fire Control Multipower

u5 Dampening: 8d6 Suppress versus Any One Fire Power (+¼) (5)

u2 Flame Out!: Desolidification (Non-Fire Area Effect), Instant (-1) (4)

u3 Flaming Fist: 10d6 Hand to Hand Attack, Hand to Hand Attack (-½) (5)

u3 Ignite and Throw: 10d6 Energy Blast, OIF: Object of Opportunity (-½) (5)

u1 Spreading Flame: 12" Teleport, Not through Solid Objects, Visible Path (2)

 

16 Indestructible Armoured Costume: 8/8 Armour, OIF (-½)

20 Universal Contact: 11-

2 Venerable: Life Suppor: Longevity

6 Widely Experienced Combatant: 3/3 Combat Luck

===

109

 

3 Breakfall

3 Combat Driving 14-

3 Combat Piloting 14-

3 Conversation 15-

0 Everyman Skill

Acting 8-

Area Knowledge: Moscow 11-

Climbing 8-

Computer Programming 8-

Concealment 8-

Deduction 8-

Language Skill: Idiomatic Russian

Paramedic 8-

Professional Skill: Revolutionary 11-

Shadowing 8-

Transport Familiarity: Small Ground Vehicles

10 Linguist

Language SKill: Fluent German

Language SKill: Fluent Spanish

Language Skill: Fluent Ukrainian

Language SKill: Fluent Chinese

Language Skill: Idiomatic English

3 Persuason 15-

11 Scholar

Knowledge Skill: Intelligence Data Analysis 11-

Knowledge Skill: Law 11-

Knowledge Skill: Russian History 14-

Knowledge Skill: The Espionage World 14-

Knowledge Skill: The Military/Mercenary/Terrorist World 14-

8 Russian Dawn Package Deal

Fringe Benefit: Federal Police Powers

Fringe Benefit: Military Rank (Captain)

Knowledge Skill: Known Superhuman Criminals 14-

Knowledge Skill: Russian FSB 14-

Team Base Donation

Team Communicator

Team Vehicle Donation

Social Limitation: Subject To Orders

20 Skill Levels: +2 Overall

3 Stealth 14-

3 Streetwise 15-

8 Traveler

Area Knowledge: China 14-

Area Knowledge: Washington 11-

Area Knowledge: Berlin 11-

Area Knowledge: Spain 11-

4 Weapon Familiarity: Small Arms, Common Melee Weapons

==

82

 

10 Physical Limitation: Far Sighted

15 Physical Limitation: Weird Biochemistry Requires Special Medical Care

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Against Killing

20 Psychological Limitation: Fervent Patriot

10 Psychological Limitation: Politically Liberal

10 Social Limitation: IS a Contact of many others

15 Social Limitation: Public Identity

10 Reputation: "Tool of the old USSR" 8-

20 Rogue's Gallery: Hunted (On Average, of Equal Power), NCI, 8-

10 Rivalry: Red Scare

5 Vulnerability: x 1 1/2 Stun from Cold Attacks

5 Vulnerability: x 1 1/2 Stun from Water Attacks

 

48 Assume Human Form: Multiform (302pt Form), Costs Endurance to Turn Off/On (-¼) (6)

24 Fiery Icon Elemental Control, Does not work in Water (-¼)

b26 Dampening: 10d6 Suppress versus Any One Fire Power (+¼) (6)

b16 Dispersed Physical Form: 75% Physical Damage Reduction, Not vs. Area-Effect Attacks (-½)

c16 Elemental Fire: 75% Resistant Energy Damage Reduction, Not versus Cold/Magic (-½)

d19 Flame Blast: 14d6 Energy Blast, No Knockback (7)

d19 Mostly Insubstantial: 16/16 Armour, Hardened (+¼), Stops Only ½ Of Any Stun Damage (-¼)

e14 Spreading Flame: 30" Teleport, Not through Solid Objects, Visible Path

20 Fire Elemental: Life Support: Immunity to Terrestrial Disease and Biowarfare Agents

6 Fire Elemental: Life Support: Immunity to Intense Heat, Radiation, Vacuum

5 Heat Sight: Enhanced Sense: IR Vision

2 Venerable: Life Suppor: Longevity

===

215

 

5 STR 15

39 DEX 23

20 CON 20

2 BOD 11

-2 INT 8

-4 EGO 8

15 PRE 25

-1 COM 8

1 PD 4

0 ED 4

27 SPD 6

0 REC 7

0 END 40

1 STN 30

===

103

 

3 Breakfall 14-

6 Combat Skill Levels: +3 with Flame Blast

0 Everyman Skill

Acting 8-

Area Knowledge: Moscow 11-

Climbing 8-

Computer Programming 8-

Concealment 8-

Deduction 8-

Language Skill: Idiomatic Russian

Paramedic 8-

Professional Skill: Revolutionary 11-

Shadowing 8-

Transport Familiarity: Small Ground Vehicles

10 Linguist

Language SKill: Fluent French

Language SKill: Fluent German

Language Skill: Fluent Ukrainian

Language SKill: Fluent Chinese

Language Skill: Idiomatic English

8 Russian Dawn Package Deal

Fringe Benefit: Federal Police Powers

Fringe Benefit: Military Rank (Captain)

Knowledge Skill: Known Superhuman Criminals 14-

Knowledge Skill: Russian FSB 14-

Team Base Donation

Team Communicator

Team Vehicle Donation

Social Limitation: Subject To Orders

3 Stealth 14-

2 Weapon Familiarity: Common Melee Weapons

==

32

 

20 Distinctive Features: Vaguely Humanoid Pillar of Fire

15 Physical Limitation: Body of Fire

15 Psychological Limitation: Childlike View of the World

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Against Killing

15 Psychological Limitation: Hydrophobia

20 Rogue's Gallery: Hunted (On Average, of Equal Power), NCI, 8-

15 Susceptability: 1d6/Minute from Intense Cold

30 Vulnerability: x2 Stun from Water, "Smothering" and Cold Attacks

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Considering that you're not the one who played her for 3 years' date=' I'm not giving your opinion too much credence.[/quote']

 

It's entirely to have a totally twinked character who is interesting. Indeed, finding a loophole, exploiting it, and then rationalizing it is a great way to build a character.

 

I do that a lot, actually.

 

That said...

Lariat has no sacrifices made for flavour. Things that stick out:

 

1) Why does a TK brick have a high con, but no exotic defenses? Straight brick, sure. TK brick? Hmm.

2) Why no power tricks? TK is good at tricks.

3) Wealth and 15 points of skills? Unless it was the 22 COM that got her the money, I don't see it... oh, she's a CEO. Got it... oh, the corp hasn't gone under? Then maybe higher skills would be appropriate.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Flame

 

(brief summary: Russian, sort of a cross between Cap and a fire elemental)

 

5 STR 15

39 DEX 23

20 CON 20

2 BOD 11

13 INT 23

2 EGO 11

18 PRE 28

2 COM 14

2 PD 5

1 ED 5

7 SPD 4

0 REC 7

0 END 40

1 STN 30

===

112

 

50 Fire Control Multipower

u5 Dampening: 8d6 Suppress versus Any One Fire Power (+¼) (5)

u2 Flame Out!: Desolidification (Non-Fire Area Effect), Instant (-1) (4)

u3 Flaming Fist: 10d6 Hand to Hand Attack, Hand to Hand Attack (-½) (5)

u3 Ignite and Throw: 10d6 Energy Blast, OIF: Object of Opportunity (-½) (5)

u1 Spreading Flame: 12" Teleport, Not through Solid Objects, Visible Path (2)

 

16 Indestructible Armoured Costume: 8/8 Armour, OIF (-½)

20 Universal Contact: 11-

2 Venerable: Life Suppor: Longevity

6 Widely Experienced Combatant: 3/3 Combat Luck

===

109

 

3 Breakfall

3 Combat Driving 14-

3 Combat Piloting 14-

3 Conversation 15-

0 Everyman Skill

Acting 8-

Area Knowledge: Moscow 11-

Climbing 8-

Computer Programming 8-

Concealment 8-

Deduction 8-

Language Skill: Idiomatic Russian

Paramedic 8-

Professional Skill: Revolutionary 11-

Shadowing 8-

Transport Familiarity: Small Ground Vehicles

10 Linguist

Language SKill: Fluent German

Language SKill: Fluent Spanish

Language Skill: Fluent Ukrainian

Language SKill: Fluent Chinese

Language Skill: Idiomatic English

3 Persuason 15-

11 Scholar

Knowledge Skill: Intelligence Data Analysis 11-

Knowledge Skill: Law 11-

Knowledge Skill: Russian History 14-

Knowledge Skill: The Espionage World 14-

Knowledge Skill: The Military/Mercenary/Terrorist World 14-

8 Russian Dawn Package Deal

Fringe Benefit: Federal Police Powers

Fringe Benefit: Military Rank (Captain)

Knowledge Skill: Known Superhuman Criminals 14-

Knowledge Skill: Russian FSB 14-

Team Base Donation

Team Communicator

Team Vehicle Donation

Social Limitation: Subject To Orders

20 Skill Levels: +2 Overall

3 Stealth 14-

3 Streetwise 15-

8 Traveler

Area Knowledge: China 14-

Area Knowledge: Washington 11-

Area Knowledge: Berlin 11-

Area Knowledge: Spain 11-

4 Weapon Familiarity: Small Arms, Common Melee Weapons

==

82

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

48 Assume Human Form: Multiform (302pt Form), Costs Endurance to Turn Off/On (-¼) (6)

24 Fiery Icon Elemental Control, Does not work in Water (-¼)

b26 Dampening: 10d6 Suppress versus Any One Fire Power (+¼) (6)

b16 Dispersed Physical Form: 75% Physical Damage Reduction, Not vs. Area-Effect Attacks (-½)

c16 Elemental Fire: 75% Resistant Energy Damage Reduction, Not versus Cold/Magic (-½)

d19 Flame Blast: 14d6 Energy Blast, No Knockback (7)

d19 Mostly Insubstantial: 16/16 Armour, Hardened (+¼), Stops Only ½ Of Any Stun Damage (-¼)

e14 Spreading Flame: 30" Teleport, Not through Solid Objects, Visible Path

20 Fire Elemental: Life Support: Immunity to Terrestrial Disease and Biowarfare Agents

6 Fire Elemental: Life Support: Immunity to Intense Heat, Radiation, Vacuum

5 Heat Sight: Enhanced Sense: IR Vision

2 Venerable: Life Suppor: Longevity

===

215

 

5 STR 15

39 DEX 23

20 CON 20

2 BOD 11

-2 INT 8

-4 EGO 8

15 PRE 25

-1 COM 8

1 PD 4

0 ED 4

27 SPD 6

0 REC 7

0 END 40

1 STN 30

===

103

 

3 Breakfall 14-

6 Combat Skill Levels: +3 with Flame Blast

0 Everyman Skill

Acting 8-

Area Knowledge: Moscow 11-

Climbing 8-

Computer Programming 8-

Concealment 8-

Deduction 8-

Language Skill: Idiomatic Russian

Paramedic 8-

Professional Skill: Revolutionary 11-

Shadowing 8-

Transport Familiarity: Small Ground Vehicles

10 Linguist

Language SKill: Fluent French

Language SKill: Fluent German

Language Skill: Fluent Ukrainian

Language SKill: Fluent Chinese

Language Skill: Idiomatic English

8 Russian Dawn Package Deal

Fringe Benefit: Federal Police Powers

Fringe Benefit: Military Rank (Captain)

Knowledge Skill: Known Superhuman Criminals 14-

Knowledge Skill: Russian FSB 14-

Team Base Donation

Team Communicator

Team Vehicle Donation

Social Limitation: Subject To Orders

3 Stealth 14-

2 Weapon Familiarity: Common Melee Weapons

==

32

 

20 Distinctive Features: Vaguely Humanoid Pillar of Fire

15 Physical Limitation: Body of Fire

15 Psychological Limitation: Childlike View of the World

20 Psychological Limitation: Code Against Killing

15 Psychological Limitation: Hydrophobia

20 Rogue's Gallery: Hunted (On Average, of Equal Power), NCI, 8-

15 Susceptability: 1d6/Minute from Intense Cold

30 Vulnerability: x2 Stun from Water, "Smothering" and Cold Attacks

 

 

The human form seems to have about 52 pts worth of noncombat plus comeliness. The flame form seems to have 17 pts. (I consider Stealth, CSLs, Breakfall, and WF to have obvious combat utility)

 

52/350=15%

 

17/350=5%

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

It's entirely to have a totally twinked character who is interesting. Indeed, finding a loophole, exploiting it, and then rationalizing it is a great way to build a character.

 

I do that a lot, actually.

 

That said...

Lariat has no sacrifices made for flavour. Things that stick out:

 

1) Why does a TK brick have a high con, but no exotic defenses? Straight brick, sure. TK brick? Hmm.

2) Why no power tricks? TK is good at tricks.

3) Wealth and 15 points of skills? Unless it was the 22 COM that got her the money, I don't see it... oh, she's a CEO. Got it... oh, the corp hasn't gone under? Then maybe higher skills would be appropriate.

 

 

1) The lack of exotics is to give the GM avenues to attack her. I usually dislike characters with 5 pts of every defense in the book.

 

2) The entire EC is a 'power trick'.

 

3) To justify 10 pts of wealth? Easy. If you have a good product, then CEO and Bureaucracy is pretty much all you need. CEOs who own more than half of a profitable company get paid TONS of money, especially in America.

[Agent X]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

When I look at that character' date=' the last thing I see is a character concept. The numbers are just too efficient to be anything but power-gamed.[/quote'] I completely disagree with your line of thought... for what it's worth.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

The human form seems to have about 52 pts worth of noncombat plus comeliness. The flame form seems to have 17 pts. (I consider Stealth, CSLs, Breakfall, and WF to have obvious combat utility)

 

52/350=15%

 

17/350=5%

 

1st, quibble: Universal Contact, in the Human Form powers, is useless in combat. It's not even an actual power. (+20 noncom)

 

That's one way to look at it.

 

Another way, that actually looks at how the character works:

 

The combat form is the Fire Elemental. Period. The normal form is not useful in combat. It has essentially the same powers, but less so. Less damage, less defenses, less movement, no added options. It has it's listed powers because of flavour reasons, nothing else.

 

As such, the entire human form is only useful out of combat.

 

(not that I'm happy with the MF cheese; I want to redo it as an OIHID character, but that would take even more time...)

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1st, quibble: Universal Contact, in the Human Form powers, is useless in combat. It's not even an actual power. (+20 noncom)

 

That's one way to look at it.

 

Another way, that actually looks at how the character works:

 

The combat form is the Fire Elemental. Period. The normal form is not useful in combat. It has essentially the same powers, but less so. Less damage, less defenses, less movement, no added options. It has it's listed powers because of flavour reasons, nothing else.

 

As such, the entire human form is only useful out of combat.

 

(not that I'm happy with the MF cheese; I want to redo it as an OIHID character, but that would take even more time...)

 

 

Yeah, that's sorta the Jaguar effect where you dump all the noncombat skills on the human form and essentially get 5 pts worth of skills for every point you spend. Multiform is a pretty cheesy way to get lots of cheap skills. Another way is to have followers, DNPCs, or Summons with lots of skills.

 

OIHID would cut the cheese factor immensely, but that would mean either having fewer skills, or weakening the character measurably. Of course OIHID still gives you far more points to play with than a straight character would have...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1) The lack of exotics is to give the GM avenues to attack her. I usually dislike characters with 5 pts of every defense in the book.

 

2) The entire EC is a 'power trick'.

 

3) To justify 10 pts of wealth? Easy. If you have a good product, then CEO and Bureaucracy is pretty much all you need. CEOs who own more than half of a profitable company get paid TONS of money, especially in America.

 

1) She has (somehow) a telekinetically heightened metabolism? How does the CON score match the SFX? If her powers are strong enough to flush out fatigue toxins and increase her internal resilience (or something to justify that) why can't she use that for something else?

 

It's not about 5pts of every exotic defense, it's about having something to match the SFX. Limited LS: breathing if the FF is a bubble. LS: Disease/Toxins to go with the CON score. Something.

 

2) Missile Deflection, Force Field, Telekinesis, Tactile Feedback. No killing damage, no choke, no "use the enviroment" tricks, no change enviroment... no power skill even.

 

3) How the heck did she become a CEO? Doesn't that require _something_?

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Yeah, that's sorta the Jaguar effect where you dump all the noncombat skills on the human form and essentially get 5 pts worth of skills for every point you spend. Multiform is a pretty cheesy way to get lots of cheap skills. Another way is to have followers, DNPCs, or Summons with lots of skills.

 

OIHID would cut the cheese factor immensely, but that would mean either having fewer skills, or weakening the character measurably. Of course OIHID still gives you far more points to play with than a straight character would have...

 

Actually, no, I wouldn't have to cut that much. The redundancy on the two forms means that I could just add in the Elemental Control direct to the human form. Hell, why don't I do that... (incoming)

 

Oh... and incidently, 48 points for teh skills is not a huge saving.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1) She has (somehow) a telekinetically heightened metabolism? How does the CON score match the SFX? If her powers are strong enough to flush out fatigue toxins and increase her internal resilience (or something to justify that) why can't she use that for something else?

 

It's not about 5pts of every exotic defense, it's about having something to match the SFX. Limited LS: breathing if the FF is a bubble. LS: Disease/Toxins to go with the CON score. Something.

 

2) Missile Deflection, Force Field, Telekinesis, Tactile Feedback. No killing damage, no choke, no "use the enviroment" tricks, no change enviroment... no power skill even.

 

3) How the heck did she become a CEO? Doesn't that require _something_?

 

 

1) Damn straight she does. This is a woman who has the power to lift 100 tons completely internalized in herself. A body that can handle that much raw power is going to be a lot tougher than a normal body.

 

2) She's a starting character at this stage with 5 power stunts. Her 500 pt version does have a multipower with additional powers. I don't consider 5 power stunts to be limited when many bricks only have 1.

 

3) She did it the old fashioned way. She started her own company. Remember, she has an 18 Int which is plenty respectable in the business world.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Actually, no, I wouldn't have to cut that much. The redundancy on the two forms means that I could just add in the Elemental Control direct to the human form. Hell, why don't I do that... (incoming)

 

Oh... and incidently, 48 points for teh skills is not a huge saving.

 

 

Why do you have Damage Reduction and Armor in the EC?

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I'm calculating the first 6 characters in Corven Ren's Heroes and Villains thread.

 

Armadillo Man

9 502 2%

Mosquito

36 374 10%

Reptyle

43 463 9%

Sunburn

20 499 4%

Seminole

50 450 11%

FyreDrake

21 405 5%

 

Apologies in advance to Corven Ren for using these characters to illustrate my point.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I got the revised OIHID build to pretty close when I realized you're just throwing up a smokescreen.

 

The 48 points of multiform are there to buy skills. Period. The rest is just to match concept. Now, that might be a significant saving, but it's entirely book legal, and _I'm still spending 48 points on something that doesn't help in combat_.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Why do you have Damage Reduction and Armor in the EC?

 

Because it's legal according to the house rules he's build under, and because they match the sfx.

[Agent X]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I bet everyone here builds characters that work for the games they play in.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Because it's legal according to the house rules he's build under' date=' and because they match the sfx.[/quote']

 

 

That does make it a bad comparison if we're going to be discussing 'official' champions writeups. We're not comparing apples to apples.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1) Damn straight she does. This is a woman who has the power to lift 100 tons completely internalized in herself. A body that can handle that much raw power is going to be a lot tougher than a normal body.

 

2) She's a starting character at this stage with 5 power stunts. Her 500 pt version does have a multipower with additional powers. I don't consider 5 power stunts to be limited when many bricks only have 1.

 

3) She did it the old fashioned way. She started her own company. Remember, she has an 18 Int which is plenty respectable in the business world.

 

1) All that raw power internalized... and no fringe benefits of toughness. No innate rDEF (a few points would make sense), no extra BODY, no life support...

 

2) She's more a Green Lantern type than a brick. She has the stats of a brick, but the special effects of a telekinetic... and telekinetics should have a lot of tricks.

 

3) Ah... so she's extremely intelligent and started her own business? And she only has 15 points of skills? Higher INT than the standard competent normal, less skills... She should have picked up at least familiarities in a bunch of things. And no contacts? She built up her company, from nothing, by herself, without getting any outside help, with absolutely no dice of luck...

 

Right.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I got the revised OIHID build to pretty close when I realized you're just throwing up a smokescreen.

 

The 48 points of multiform are there to buy skills. Period. The rest is just to match concept. Now, that might be a significant saving, but it's entirely book legal, and _I'm still spending 48 points on something that doesn't help in combat_.

 

 

Lots of things are book legal but questionable. Would most GMs allow a multiform as a cheap excuse for a skills dump? Questionable.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1) All that raw power internalized... and no fringe benefits of toughness. No innate rDEF (a few points would make sense), no extra BODY, no life support...

 

2) She's more a Green Lantern type than a brick. She has the stats of a brick, but the special effects of a telekinetic... and telekinetics should have a lot of tricks.

 

3) Ah... so she's extremely intelligent and started her own business? And she only has 15 points of skills? Higher INT than the standard competent normal, less skills... She should have picked up at least familiarities in a bunch of things. And no contacts? She built up her company, from nothing, by herself, without getting any outside help, with absolutely no dice of luck...

 

Right.

 

 

1) Yes, absolutely. Wonder Woman comes to mind as someone with little if any internal resistant defense, or life support. Captain America has a huge con without any of the extras that you seem to want to make mandatory for anyone with a high con.

 

2) A 5 slot EC is plenty of tricks for a starting character.

 

3) Yes, it happens all the time in the real world. The standard competent normal usually does not have 15 pts worth of knowledge or professional skills. They usually sink a good deal of their points in stats or combat skills. Very few standard normals have 5 skills at 13-.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

That does make it a bad comparison if we're going to be discussing 'official' champions writeups. We're not comparing apples to apples.

 

A standardised build would just have lower defenses outside the EC. Affects relative effectiveness, but give everyone would be weakened comparably in his world, no real net loss.

 

Incidently, you were the one who decided that the characters I play were something we needed to compare...

 

15 points of backgroudns skills is low. It's not pitiful, but it's low. You can beat that by taking every everyman skill as a 3 pointer - and that just makes you a competent average person, let alone something special.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

A standardised build would just have lower defenses outside the EC. Affects relative effectiveness, but give everyone would be weakened comparably in his world, no real net loss.

 

Incidently, you were the one who decided that the characters I play were something we needed to compare...

 

15 points of backgroudns skills is low. It's not pitiful, but it's low. You can beat that by taking every everyman skill as a 3 pointer - and that just makes you a competent average person, let alone something special.

 

 

Considering that the majority of the characters you've previously posted had roughly the same neighborhood of noncombat skills, yes absolutely I wanted your explanation of why you think 31 out of 350 is low.

 

Would you consider most of the characters posted on these boards to have 'low' skills? Just going through various characters posted on these boards, 5-15% seems to be standard for noncombat stuff.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Incidentally, Captain America, posted in the very first post in this thread, has about 60 out of 750 or 8% in noncombat stuff. I guess you would consider Cap 'light' on skills.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Apologies to Force for using his characters to illustrate my point.

 

Force's 3 characters posted in this thread:

 

Force 43 out of 440 = 10%

 

Colossus 14 out of 440 = 3%

 

Black Lotus 32 out of 395 = 8%

 

All excellent characters, but by your standards are somehow lacking.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

1) Yes, absolutely. Wonder Woman comes to mind as someone with little if any internal resistant defense, or life support. Captain America has a huge con without any of the extras that you seem to want to make mandatory for anyone with a high con.

 

2) A 5 slot EC is plenty of tricks for a starting character.

 

3) Yes, it happens all the time in the real world. The standard competent normal usually does not have 15 pts worth of knowledge or professional skills. They usually sink a good deal of their points in stats or combat skills. Very few standard normals have 5 skills at 13-.

 

1) Cap has (most likely) extra REC and reduced need to sleep [iirc; not the biggest fan]. He also probably should have a degree of power defense, since he IS just tough (physically and mentally) and does better against things than he "should".

 

I'm not saying any of these is mandatory, by the way, but a character should have _something_ like that.

 

Wonder Woman is old school DC and thus inherently illogical, but I really doubt she'd be completely wide open like that [it would help if I thought the character concept was worth reading about].

 

2) A starting character? With the fine control for missile deflection? And for typing? And the raw strength to throw around tanks?

Hmm.

 

3) Actually it seems pretty standard (for competent normals) to me. And she's not just a normal, she;s a _superhero_ and a CEO.

 

Incidently, 10 points of wealth, apparently she recently got her powers, and she has NO points in things she does for fun?