Trebuchet Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 ... Captain America? I thought we might try a variation of the endless "Cap vs. __________" threads. Could your main or favorite Champions character beat the Ultimate Human Fighting Machine; America's living incarnation: Captain America? Post your version of Captain America, and then tell us how you think the fight would go. No limit on points; just build what you think would be a good Hero system approximation of the Red, White & Blue Avenger. I'll start with my character, Zl'f, versus Cap: Captain America Player: Steve "Trebuchet" Willson Val Char Cost 25 STR 15 29 DEX 57 28 CON 36 20 BODY 20 23 INT 13 23 EGO 26 35 PRE 15 14 COM 2 15/53 PD 10 15/53 ED 9 6 SPD 21 15 REC 8 62 END 3 50 STUN 3 13" RUN-126" SWIM48" LEAP3Characteristics Cost: 233 Cost Power END 5 Disciplined Mind: Mental Defense (10 points total) 0 5 Not Easily Impressed: +10 PRE (10 Active Points); Only vs. PRE Attacks (-1) 5 Quick Reflexes: Sight Group Flash Defense (5 points) 0 35 There's got to be a weak spot!: Find Weakness 12- with All Attacks 0 12 You just shift your balance...: Knockback Resistance -9" (18 Active Points); Requires A Breakfall Roll (-1/2) 0 1 Supersoldier: Life Support (Extended Breathing: 1 END per Turn) 0 32 Quick on his feet: Running +13" (13" total), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (32 Active Points) 1 33 Shield: Multipower, 67-point reserve, (67 Active Points); all slots OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) 3u 1) Thrown Shield: Energy Blast 10d6 (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (62 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) 2 1u 2) Club Shield: HA +4d6 (20 Active Points); HA (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) 2 3u 3) Sharp Edge: HKA 2d6 (3d6 w/STR) (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), AP (+1/2) (52 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) 2 3u 4) I'm pretty good with this thing...: Stretching 8", x4 Noncombat, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Does Not Cross Intervening Space (+1/4) (67 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) 3 2u 5) The Very Definition...: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target (50 Active Points); Limited Coverage 180 Degrees (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) 0 2u 6) Adamantium/Vibranium Composite: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 24 Real Cost) Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Limited Coverage 180 Degrees (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) (Real Cost: 12) plus Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Limited Coverage 180 Degrees (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2) (Real Cost: 12) 0 63 Shield I: Armor (30 PD/30 ED), Inherent (+1/4), Hardened (x2; +1/2) (157 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (Shield I; -1/2), Lockout (When Shield is thrown/absent; -1/2), Limited Coverage 180 Degrees (-1/2) 0 7 Shield II: +3 with DCV (15 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2), Lockout (When Shield is thrown/absent; -1/2) 5 Shield III: Lack Of Weakness (-12) for Resistant Defenses (12 Active Points); OIF Unbreakable (-1/2), Lockout (When Shield is thrown/absent; -1/2), Limited Coverage 180 Degrees (-1/2) 0 4 Shield IV: Power Defense (10 points) (10 Active Points); Limited Coverage 180 Degrees (-1/2), OIF Unbreakable (Shield I; -1/2), Lockout (When Shield is thrown/absent; -1/2) 0 16 Adamantium Chainmail: Armor (8 PD/8 ED) (24 Active Points); OIF (; -1/2) 0 Powers Cost: 237 Cost Martial Arts Maneuver 5 Offensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 12d6 Strike 4 Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 10d6 Strike 5 Defensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +3 DCV, 8d6 Strike 4 Joint Lock/Throw: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2 1/2d6 NND ; Target Falls 3 Legsweep: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -1 DCV, 9d6 Strike, Target Falls 4 Killing Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, HKA 2d6 +1 4 Nerve Strike: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 3 1/2d6 NND 3 Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 8d6 +v/5, Target Falls 4 Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort 4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort 5 Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove 4 Martial Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 50 STR to Disarm 4 Martial Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 55 STR vs. Grabs 3 Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 50 STR for holding on 12 +3 HTH Damage Class(es) 4 Ranged Disarm: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Disarm, 55 STR to Disarm 4 Trip: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Range +2, v/5, Target Falls 12 +3 Ranged Damage Class(es) 2 Weapon Element: Empty Hand, Off Hand, Shield Martial Arts Cost: 90 Cost Skill 3 Acrobatics 15- 11 Analyze: Combat 18- 3 Breakfall 15- 3 Climbing 15- 3 Combat Driving 15- 3 Concealment 14- 10 Defense Maneuver I-IV 3 Demolitions 14- 3 Parachuting 15- 3 Paramedics 14- 3 Oratory 16- 5 Rapid Attack (HTH) 5 Rapid Attack (Ranged) 3 Security Systems 14- 3 Shadowing 14- 3 Stealth 15- 14 Survival (Arctic/Subarctic, Marine, Temperate/Subtropical, Tropical, Desert, Mountain, Urban) 14- 3 Tactics 14- 3 Teamwork 15- 24 +3 with All Combat 30 +3 Overall 6 Penalty Skill Levels: +3 vs. Throwing modifiers with Shield 0 English (idiomatic) (4 Active Points) Skills Cost: 147 Cost Perk 12 Reputation: America's Greatest Hero (A large group) 14-, +4/+4d6 Perks Cost: 12 Cost Talent 12 Combat Luck (6 PD/6 ED) 3 Ambidexterity (-2 Off Hand penalty) 16 Combat Sense 15- Talents Cost: 31 Total Character Cost: 750 Val Disadvantages 15 Soc. Lim.: Secret Identity (Steve Rogers) (Frequently, Major) 15 Reputation: Straight Arrow, 14- 25 Hunted: Enemies of America 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish) 10 Hunted: Red Skull 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish) 20 Psych. Lim.: Patriot (Common, Total) 25 Psych. Lim.: Protect Innocents (Very Common, Total) Disadvantage Points: 110 Base Points: 500 Experience Required: 140 Total Experience Available: 140 Experience Unspent: 0 And to tell you how I think it would go, here's my new custom t-shirt: My Champions character Zl'f Got her cute little @$$ Kicked by Captain America! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... My character is a slightly better archer than cap, so in a strait archery contest I would win In a fight, I would have to snipe him, and my first shot would have to put him down. If these two things did not happen then Marksman is going down and going down HARD I don't have time to make a Cap, but he would probably come in around 600-700 points or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Hm, Menagerie I have no idea. She could always try to use her "Turn into Flesh Eating bacteria" trick if pressed. Pinnacle at full size is really strong and really hard to hurt, but probably couldn't hit him. Stopwatch would "Stop time" and run the hell away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucleon Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... I thought we might try a variation of the endless "Cap vs. __________" threads. Could your main or favorite Champions character beat the Ultimate Human Fighting Machine; America's living incarnation: Captain America? Post your version of Captain America, and then tell us how you think the fight would go. No limit on points; just build what you think would be a good Hero system approximation of the Red, White & Blue Avenger. Mmmhh. Very intersesting. Alas, Nucleon is a GM, and have no personal character apart from the ridiculously powerful being that bears His name. However, he's got a menagerie of other, lesser characters we would like to put against the Marvel Icon, namely four members of the Guardians, the iconic All-American supergroup of His universe. (Nucleon would likely make a version of Cap with less Physical Characteristics and more SLs and PSLs and CSLs, but he shall take yours anyway, because it is well-made and Cosmic Lazyness.) First Containder; Whipcord, Whips and lines-using feminist martial artist, ±430 pts, in a urban setting; A very mobile fight, as Whipcord takes adventage of the range of her whips and her swinging movement to harass a character clearly superior to her in term of brawn, if not in martial habilities; But by superior polyvalency and cunning, Cap got her cornered, and accepts her honorable surrender. 1-0 for Cap. Second Fight; Cap vs Great Wolf (± 500 pts), Native shapeshifter and protector of the central plains (where the fight takes place); He is also clearly superior to Cap in both skills and Characteristics, but his animal mind when transformed does not make him too tough an opponent for Cal to decipher; After taking the 3-4 hards blows of the Man-Beast, Cap still resists and place blow his opponent didn't saw coming, and so Great Wolf runs away, impressed. This one goes to Cap per default; 2-0 for Winghead. Third Fight; Cap now fight Athelus (± 525), All-American sport athlete, Wrestling specialist and giant-sized brick -and a jovial fellow overall, in a suburban parking lot. Athelus is surprised at first of Cap's habilities, taking a few painful blows; He changes tactics however, and start throwing things around like cars and dumpsters. As a result, Cap is unbalanced due to knockback, so using his huge size, Athelus can now grab him, and as so many adversaries caught in Athelus grasp, Cap does not escapes. He still leads 2-1, though. Fourth and Final match; Cap vs Vanguard at the feet of Lady Liberty, flag-suit himself and possessor of True American Radiance, at ± 700 pts. An all-aroung complete opponent, Vanguard is super-strong, manipulates energy and flies, which makes hime quite a match for ol' Winghead, who still deflects his blasts, however. Understanding the nature of his opponent, Vanguard then floods Cap's sense with bright light (Area effect Flash), which works because Cap expected another beam. Blinded, Cap then falls to Vanguard's Opti-Beam, a signature beam that requires Flash Defense for his target to resist (AVLD). Cap falls from there on. So it is a draw, 2-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... CAPTAIN AMERICA Sample Character CHARACTERISTICS 30 STR 20 20 30 DEX 60 80 30 CON 40 120 30 BOD 40 160 21 INT 11 171 30 EGO 40 211 40 PRE 20 241 20 COM 10 251 15 PD 09 260 15 ED 09 269 07 SPEED 30 299 13 REC 14 313 60 END 00 313 60 STUN 00 313 TOTAL POWERS Maximum Human Potential 8 +¼, ½ endurance on strength 17 13â€/26†Running [2] +½, ½ endurance cost 7 11â€/22†Leaping [1] 7 9â€/18†Swimming [1] Master Combatant Unbelievably Accurate Attacks 15 +½, armor piercing on strength You only nicked me! 9 6PD/6ED Armor -½ only vs. body, -½ always lets 1 body through, applies as last of defenses -0 Combat Reflexes 20 +2 Speed -1, only to abort to a block after an action in a phase, roll with the blow, or dive for cover, +1, can be used during an active phase. Master Tactician/Great Leader 50 Find Weakness, all attacks 15 or less 69 +1 ¾ usable simultaneously with 8 others but requires -¼ incantation -0 only when the team is in great distress or a suitable comic moment Combat Awareness 6 +2 perception with all senses Unflagging Will 15 21 Points of Mental Defense Effects of the Super Soldier Serum 10 10 Points of Power Defense POWERS CONTINUED Equipment Chain Mesh Uniform 12 8PD/8ED Armor -½, OIF, Universable, Breakable -½, Ablative vs. Body Cap’s Shield -½ OIF, Mostly Universal, Unbreakable Blocked Attack/Thrown Block 13 +4 DCV Levels 32 Missile Reflection any attack at range, 15 or less Shielding Cap’s Eyes 7 15 Points Flash Defense: Sight Group -½, Activation Roll 14 or less, -½ one point of flash always gets through Grazing Attack 75% Resistant Damage Reduction: 40 Physical 40 Energy Shield Melee Attack 26 4d6 Hand Attack +½, zero endurance +½, armor piercing when used by Cap -½, mandatory limitation Thrown Shield 50 10d6 Energy Blast, physical +½, armor piercing when used by Cap +¼, ½ endurance -¼, range based on throwing TALENTS 3 Absolute Range Sense 3 Ambidexterity 3 Bump of Direction 19 Combat Sense 15 or less 3 Double-Jointed 3 Environmental Movement: Water 3 Environmental Movement: Zero-G 3 Environmental Movement: Climbing 3 Environmental Movement: Clutter 3 Environmental Movement: Narrow Surfaces 3 Environmental Movement: Poor Footing 3 +2 Lightning Reflexes 3 Lightsleep PERQUISITES 3 Access to Avengers Mansion 1 Passport 3 Federal Police Powers as an Avenger 7 Security Clearance: U.S. Government Reputation: THE Hero of America 15 14 or less +5/+5d6 to rolls SKILLS 3 Acrobatics 3 Analyze: Martial Arts 3 Analyze: Strength 3 Analyze: Dexterity 3 Analyze: Ranged Attacks 3 Analyze: Defenses 3 Analyze: Focus 3 Analyze: Leadership 3 Breakfall 3 Bugging 3 Climbing 3 Combat Driving 3 Combat Piloting 3 Concealment 3 Contortionist 3 Conversation 10 Cramming, 2 Levels 3 Criminology 1 Familiarity: Cryptography 3 Deduction 8 Defense Maneuver III 3 Demolitions 3 Electronics 3 Fast Draw 3 Scholar 2 Knowledge: Avengers 2 Knowledge: World War II 2 Knowledge: Military History 3 Linguist 2 Chinese 2 French 2 German 2 Italian 2 Japanese 2 Russian 3 Lockpicking 3 Mechanics 3 Navigation 3 Oratory 3 Paramedics 3 Persuasion 3 Power: Shield Skill 3 Professional Artist 3 Riding 3 Security Systems 3 Shadowing 3 Sleight of Hand 3 Stealth 3 Systems Operation 3 Tactics 3 Teamwork 3 Tracking 10 Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Well Traveled 2 Eastern Europe 2 England 2 France 2 Germany 2 Italy 2 Japan 2 London 2 New York City 2 Scotland 2 Switzerland 2 United States of America 2 Wales 2 Washington DC Throw in a crapload of martial arts maneuvers: HtH AND Ranged (He knows shield-fu) and 2 hand to hand combat skill levels, 2 overall combat skill levels, 2 overall skill levels, 3 skill levels with shield and 3 ranged and 3 HTH martial arts damage classes... I'm pretty sure he'd beat all my characters unless it was just a logistical powers issue - area affect attacks or flight issues, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Loner Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... No. Even my character BASED on Cap would get schooled...at least now. Ask her again in about 50 exp. Moody Loner or Spartacus would get beaten like a cheap drum. Spartacus at least would have the wit to surrender and negotiate, but poor Moody, especially once his Enraged kicked in, would go Super Saiyajin, then be sent on an express trip to GM's Discretion courtesy of Cap's shield and vastly superior fighting ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... I would use something similar the the original posted Cap here, and Black Cat could take him, but it would end up being like the Cap/Bats fight in the DC Marvel Crossover. She has a couple points of dex on him, 3 more speed, about the same number of levels, and an 82 point martial arts pool which pretty much matches the shield. The speed and avaialbe increased CV from the MA pool would give her the edge. But she has been a PC for over a decade and outpoints him too. But then using the DC/Champs conversion that was in and old AC, and using first edition DC stats (the most powerful) she could match Karate Kid from that conversion. All of my other characters (including one on the same point level as Cat) would be toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... I liked most everything about your Cap except the 53 PD/ED?? What the? Totally don't understand that, unless that is somehow the cumulative of his shield and all. Other than that... very few PCs could stand toe-to-toe with him as you built him... though the three highest level characters could stand off and hit him with Ego Blasts, or Oxygen deprification AE attacks, or AVLD KAs that he has no defense against... and so might pull of wins. Since Cap usually doesn't just win by "beating you with more dice" but through environmental tactics, leadership, et al... that is the unknown factor that would be really dangerous. Then again, those high level charcters I mentioned are all tactical leaders of some note as well (well, two of them are) and so, sans Write/GM fiat... they'd have a chance. I'll have to think about whether I have any HtH guys that could compete... but then you are playing Caps game... and he SHOULD be better than almost anyone at that. Vengeance could at least put up a good fight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... We don't give Cap the benefit of both the armor and the dcv while using the shield [it's DCV for us with armor only being used for area effect damage]. So going by those rules, Midknight [son of Batman and Wonder Woman], could take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... My 350 pt Lariat would win. Cap doesn't have the capability to one punch Lariat, and she could simply run away and take Recoveries anytime she's low on Stun (Cap with a mere 13" Running would never catch her). OTOH, Lariat could either use a truck to smash Cap (free Area Effect), or eventually succeed with a Grab in which case it'd be all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Vindicator - nope, would likely lose pretty quickly to Cap. That shield you built is sick! My poor 350+21xp flying brick/martial artist has little hope in this exchange unless he can get his hands on that shield. Major advantage, Captain America. Singularity - well, I figure his best chance is if he makes the shield too heavy for Cap to pick up (or drag it and Cap if he's holding it up into Low Earth Orbit) with his gravity powers. He's got 60 STR with the density increase, and can pick up a car or something to smack the nimble little fellow, and since it's bought through E/Cs he can use it at the same time as well. If Cap can avoid the shield loss, he'll whup the hell out of poor 350 point Singularity. Avatar - well, being based on like 250 points more than Captain America here, it'd be short, ugly and very iron age. The "no code vs. killing" would be rough for Cap, but since Cap doesn't use deadly force he might only end up in the hospital. It's not "casual killer" after all, and Cap will almost certainly survive either the RKA or the pushed punch which takes him out of the fight thanks to his Adamantium Chainmail and 20 Body. Short fight though. Oceanic - same scenario as Avatar, but he only wins if he's near or in a major body of water. Still based on 250 points more than Captain America (500 point version), but very much limited outside his aquatic environment. Near water (or better yet, in water) there is literally no way that I can see where Captain American can beat him. Tank Boy - nobody beats an M1 Abrams.... nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... I like Trebuchet's Cap maginally better than Agent X's. I'll speculate using that version. Challenger , assuming they disregarded the whole "wow, both our costumes look like the American flag," could possibly win if he realized that Cap throws his shield in combat (I mean really, who throws a shield?) He is nimble enough in the air to evade easily all but a full-OCV attack, and he is cagey enough not to give away immediately the extent of his manueverability. His favorite strategy is Draw Fire, Evade, Draw Fire, Evade, Draw Fire when all levels go into OCV none in DCV, Evade and Paste the sitting duck. Theoretically a Colonel should beat a Captain, right? I give Challenger a 35% chance of winning, lower in an urban environment. Deadweight, formerly Constitution would be a problem for Cap to hurt but has next to no chance of hitting Cap short of pulling a building over on them both. At Deadweight's cruising density Cap couldn't really hurt him and he can briefly become dense enough to cause light to bend towards him so that would put him out of reach of being damaged at all. Of course, if he maintains that weight, he's usually on a fast track to the core of the planet! Cap could pretty easily steer the fight to soft soil, and the only time Deadweight drops his Density Increase entirely is when he is being intimate (5 levels Persistent.) My guy could drop a building on them both, but neither wins in a stand-up fight and Cap could just run me ragged. Willpower is based on Psycher from Strikeforce, with 4 years more points. T-porting mentalist/martial artists do well against Cap, but Cap often shrugs off EGO based attacks. I would give this one the best odds at a 40% chance of victory. Impact turns kinetic and potential energy into STR and END until he is "full" then it is immediately re-emitted as light (EX Flash) if he absorbs any more. He also has Damage Reduction linked to the Absorption, so he doesn't have to survive the STUN to get the benefits. The "slow blade" gets him every time, so throws, nerve strikes and choke holds would wreck him. Dramatic fight, and maybe the changeover to the Flash in the face gets Cap off guard (yeah, right,) but this falls into the Not-A-Chance-in-Hell catagory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted April 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... I liked most everything about your Cap except the 53 PD/ED?? What the? Totally don't understand that, unless that is somehow the cumulative of his shield and all. Yes, the 53 PD includes the defenses of the shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Enforcer could give him a good go round, even Cap would wear down before his awesome and potentially catastrophic might, maybe. And besides if he lost, he'd simply steal Cap's girlfriend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... My champions characters would never be in a universe where Captain America was written up this way (which is not a value judgement on whether this write up is correct or not), and if they were then they would be written up very differently than they currently are. As such: hard to say. In concept, several of the characters should be able to handle him dependent on circumstances (do they favor caps abilities or the characters). In write-up and execution, that's a separate question. It also depends: is this a cap or avengers comic, or my hero's comic...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... My 350 pt Lariat would win. Cap doesn't have the capability to one punch Lariat' date=' and she could simply run away and take Recoveries anytime she's low on Stun (Cap with a mere 13" Running would never catch her). OTOH, Lariat could either use a truck to smash Cap (free Area Effect), or eventually succeed with a Grab in which case it'd be all over.[/quote'] Couldn't he hit her in the back with a thrown sheild as she's running away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Cap wouldn't hit a girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Couldn't he hit her in the back with a thrown sheild as she's running away? Lariat has 36" leap, so a single noncombat Leap will get her 72" away. At that range, even Cap will find it impossible to hit her. Even if he hit, he's extremely unlikely to do enough damage to make any sort of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Well, my own take on Cap would be similar to Trebuchet's, but with a higher SPD (8 as a minimum) and either a VPP "tricks" pool or a load of martial artist tricks (insert "Disgustingly Powerful Ninja" joke here). Speaking first of my actual characters (I'm usually GM) Stefan Sashkey. Stefan is a Spectre-level character, the kind you can imagine playing dodgeball with planets during the Silver Age (if he weren't an Iron Age/Pulp character). If Stefan had a reason to fight Cap, Cap wouldn't stand a chance. But then, the chance of this happening are low -- Stefan is more of a behind-the-scenes plotter than a fisticuffer. The Disruptor. All Cap, but the Disruptor would be able to escape before being captured. The Disruptor simply isn't on Cap's level in terms of combat prowess or points. Now in terms of strategic capability they'd be an even match -- TD could have done Cap's job coordinating during the JLA/Avengers climax. SythRyss, the psionic kobold. Again, the physical confrontation goes to Cap -- which isn't saying a whole heck of a lot. Where things getting interesting here is in debate/oratory, where SythRyss could give Cap the fight of his life even without the benefit of his telepathy, telempathy, mind control etc etc. ========================= PC's in the campaign I'm running: even all four of them ganging up on him with the benefit of their 32 henchmen, it would require luck or a very, very good plan. Either Nurock or Hexadecimal would have a chance of taking him down if they could get around his defenses -- no easy task, giving his martial skills. Sting would suffer from the "Fesic" liability; he's used to (and built) to fight groups, not single hardened targets. And we discussed The Disruptor above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Hmmm. Depends on the character: Katana-no-shao, my samurai character is probably going down, magic sword or not. Cap has too much skill and will wear me down, though it's probably going to be a pretty good fight. Proteus, the body manipulator, probably wins. I wouldn't count Cap out because he has won some tough fights, but I can amp my phsical stats to be both stronger and tougher, then fall back on my martial arts. I'd probably have to grab onto him then use my superior strength to slowly crush him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Mantis could give Cap a battle, but...It'd be a Batman/Cap style fight where I think it could go either way depending on a) the dice or the writer of the comic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKJAM! Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... I'm just going to go with "generic Cap". Rock Bottom: Too slow, too vulnerable to leverage. No. Mask of Justice: About the only advantage he has is being able to see through Cap's shield and in the dark. If the fight's in a lightless room, MoJ has a small chance of victory, more if he can get the shield away from Cap. Calculus: Runs the possible battle situations through his hyperintelligent brain, then surrenders immediately. (What can I say? He's smart.) Kira Midori: Won't be able to get off enough Ego Attack in time to keep Cap from pinning her, even with precog. Talion: Actually has a shot at one-shotting Cap, if CA can somehow be fooled into using his most powerful Haymakered attack. Otherwise, Cap figures out Talion's power after one bad experience, and finds some way to immobilize Talion for the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetle Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Using Treb's Cap: Darkshadow - He'd lose quickly and decisively. At least Cap's too nice a guy to make a crack about DS being a second-rate Moon Knight clone. Bolt - This would be a short combat. Bolt (impatient, overconfident speedster) would move-by Cap and either miss or do no damage. That would irk him, so he'd do a move through and knock himself out on Cap's shield. Kestrel - Cap's mental defense would make it hard for her to control him. The shield and armor would make her limited martial arts and her pistols useless. She'd probably just go invisible (i.e. "cloud his mind so he cannot see her") and slink away. Captain Atlas - This "Cap vs. Cap" fight would most likely be a draw. Captain America couldn't really hurt Atlas (he's based on Captain "Shazam" Marvel) and there's little chance that Atlas could even touch Captain America without lobbing a building at him (which he wouldn't do). Black Arrow - This would probably be the most interesting combat, which is fitting since BA (teleporting energy projector/martial artist) is my oldest and favorite character. She's slightly faster than Cap, but has lower defenses and does less damage. She'd have to be both smart and lucky to win, as she'd have a hard time getting past Cap's defenses. If BA threw up her force field and tried going toe-to-toe, she'd eventually get worn down unless she got a lucky find weakness role in. (Cap's lack of weakness roll is especially appropriate here because of his experience against savate). Karen's best chance would be to envelope Cap in a darkness field (though this requires weakening her force field). Then she'd rely on quick combat teleports to try and get inside his shield while not getting hit. If that works then she's got a decent shot at prevailing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Psi Queen would destroy his mind, feel bad and then put him back together. She might even hit on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Re: Could your Champions character beat... Psi Queen would destroy his mind' date=' feel bad and then put him back together. She might even hit on him.[/quote'] I first read this as "Psi Queen would destroy his mind, feel bad and then put him back together. He might even hit on him." I thought that sounded like an unusual campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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