Could your Champions character beat...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I asked for Android specifically because he has lots of 'conception' powers that you can get away with on 731 but not on 350. I was interested in seeing what conception you were willing to sacrifice.

 

I guess the answer is that you simply wouldn't play Android in a 350 game because he wouldn't be competitive unless you pared away some skills/conception powers.

 

Android specifically? No. He was expressly designed as a high end character.

 

That said, for a 350 robot man, I have in the past:

 

1) Sacrificed senses. Android has by far the most extreme sensory suite. [it makes sense. Senses require a lot of processign and programming power. Indeed, I've gone the other way and have them have less than normal senses]

 

2) Made subsystems full on foci. It's often a lot easier to remove components from a robotic character.

 

3) Applied limitations to some skills to reflect they were on memory that was unusually vulnerable to damage or EMPs.

 

4) Cut movement powers down to running.

 

5) Played with low STR and Defenses.

 

Robot had comparable skills (actually, I think more), but half of them could be physically destroyed or shut down by an EMP.

 

If I could find the CS, I'd use that as an example... ah, there it is:

 

5 STR 10/40*

24 DEX 18/26

26 CON 23

0 BOD 10

13 INT 23

0 EGO 10

13 PRE 23

5 COM 20

-3 PD 5

1 ED 5

12 SPD 4/5

0 REC 13

-23 END 0

0 STN 47

 

* = Characteristic bought with the Advantage 0 Endurance Cost

 

OCV: 9

DCV: 9

ECV: 3

Combat Phases 3, 5, 8, 10, 12

Strength Roll: 17-

Dexterity Roll: 14-

Constitution Roll: 14-

Intelligence Roll: 14-

Perception Roll: 14-

Ego Roll: 11-

Resistant Defenses: 15/15

Running Speed: 19â€

 

22 Android Body Powers Elemental Control

a22 Dense Tissues: 15/15 Armour

b22 Inhuman: Full Life Support

c22 Swift: +13" Running, 0 Endurance Cost, Base Running Costs 0 Endurance

d22 Tremendous Strength: +30 Strength, 0 Endurance Cost

 

5 Built for Eternity: Life Support: Immune to Aging

11 Electronic Mind +8 Dexterity, No Figured Characteristics (-½), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼), Not in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼)

6 Electronic Mind: +1 Speed, Not in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

4 Greater Mass: -2†Kockback Resistance

3 Synthetic: +3 to Disguise Skill, Self Only (-½), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Criminology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Cryptography 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Forensic Medicine 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Lock-picking 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Biology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Chemistry 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Metahuman Physiology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Pharmacology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Physics 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Psychology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Security Systems 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Systems Operations 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

4 Tireless: 0 Endurance Cost on Leaping

1 Tireless: 0 Endurance Cost on Swimming

7 Wall Adhering Flesh: Clinging, Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

 

3 Acting 14-

3 Computer Programming 14-

3 Conversation 14-

3 Deduction 14-

3 Disguise 14-

3 Electronics 14-

3 Inventor 14-

3 Knowledge Skill: The Superhuman World 14-

3 Mechanics 14-

3 Mimicricy 14-

3 Paramedic 14-

3 Scientist Package Deal

Bureaucratics 14-

Education: Doctorate In Cybernetics

Knowledge Skill: Research Methods (3)

Professional Skill: Academic Researcher 14-

Professional Skill: Appropriate Scientific Career (3)

Science Skill: Mathematics 14-

Science Skill: Computer Science 16-

Science Skill: Artificial Intelligence 14-

Science Skill: Medicine 14-

Science Skill: Robotics 14-

Scientist

Psychological Limit: Scientific Curiosity:

Social Limitation: Publish or Perish

2 Science Skill: Genetics 14-

 

3 Absolute Time Sense

9 Ambidexterity

5 Eidetic Memory

3 Lightning Calculator

6 Speed Reading: 100 x Input Speed

 

 

Please note he is a 300pt character, and as such can easily be rewritten to abide by 5th ed standards for Elemental Controls. I'm not going to do that right now just because it would take far too long.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

At a _minimum_. The _minimum_ is the same. The __minimum_. The _minimum_.

 

Minimum. Required. What a character should have AT MINIMUM.

 

Minimum.

 

Read in context. Skills light is skills light, whether it's a 200pt character, a 100pt character, or 1000pt character, they should have a certain minimum level of skills.

 

 

Well, since you've already declared earlier in this thread that PS CEO, KS Business World, and Bureaucracy means that the character has no idea how to run a company, I'm afraid that your idea of "minimum" is different from mine.

 

And based on the other poll, vastly different from the majority of people who actually play Champions.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Android specifically? No. He was expressly designed as a high end character.

 

That said, for a 350 robot man, I have in the past:

 

1) Sacrificed senses. Android has by far the most extreme sensory suite. [it makes sense. Senses require a lot of processign and programming power. Indeed, I've gone the other way and have them have less than normal senses]

 

2) Made subsystems full on foci. It's often a lot easier to remove components from a robotic character.

 

3) Applied limitations to some skills to reflect they were on memory that was unusually vulnerable to damage or EMPs.

 

4) Cut movement powers down to running.

 

5) Played with low STR and Defenses.

 

Robot had comparable skills (actually, I think more), but half of them could be physically destroyed or shut down by an EMP.

 

If I could find the CS, I'd use that as an example... ah, there it is:

 

5 STR 10/40*

24 DEX 18/26

26 CON 23

0 BOD 10

13 INT 23

0 EGO 10

13 PRE 23

5 COM 20

-3 PD 5

1 ED 5

12 SPD 4/5

0 REC 13

-23 END 0

0 STN 47

 

* = Characteristic bought with the Advantage 0 Endurance Cost

 

OCV: 9

DCV: 9

ECV: 3

Combat Phases 3, 5, 8, 10, 12

Strength Roll: 17-

Dexterity Roll: 14-

Constitution Roll: 14-

Intelligence Roll: 14-

Perception Roll: 14-

Ego Roll: 11-

Resistant Defenses: 15/15

Running Speed: 19â€

 

22 Android Body Powers Elemental Control

a22 Dense Tissues: 15/15 Armour

b22 Inhuman: Full Life Support

c22 Swift: +13" Running, 0 Endurance Cost, Base Running Costs 0 Endurance

d22 Tremendous Strength: +30 Strength, 0 Endurance Cost

 

5 Built for Eternity: Life Support: Immune to Aging

11 Electronic Mind +8 Dexterity, No Figured Characteristics (-½), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼), Not in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼)

6 Electronic Mind: +1 Speed, Not in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

4 Greater Mass: -2†Kockback Resistance

3 Synthetic: +3 to Disguise Skill, Self Only (-½), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Criminology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Cryptography 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Forensic Medicine 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Lock-picking 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Biology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Chemistry 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Metahuman Physiology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Pharmacology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Physics 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Science Skill: Psychology 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Security Systems 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

1 Software Data-patch: Systems Operations 14-, Gestures to Activate (-¼), Turns off in intense Magnetic Fields (-¼), Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

4 Tireless: 0 Endurance Cost on Leaping

1 Tireless: 0 Endurance Cost on Swimming

7 Wall Adhering Flesh: Clinging, Cybernetics (-¼), Difficult to Repair (-¼)

 

3 Acting 14-

3 Computer Programming 14-

3 Conversation 14-

3 Deduction 14-

3 Disguise 14-

3 Electronics 14-

3 Inventor 14-

3 Knowledge Skill: The Superhuman World 14-

3 Mechanics 14-

3 Mimicricy 14-

3 Paramedic 14-

3 Scientist Package Deal

Bureaucratics 14-

Education: Doctorate In Cybernetics

Knowledge Skill: Research Methods (3)

Professional Skill: Academic Researcher 14-

Professional Skill: Appropriate Scientific Career (3)

Science Skill: Mathematics 14-

Science Skill: Computer Science 16-

Science Skill: Artificial Intelligence 14-

Science Skill: Medicine 14-

Science Skill: Robotics 14-

Scientist

Psychological Limit: Scientific Curiosity:

Social Limitation: Publish or Perish

2 Science Skill: Genetics 14-

 

3 Absolute Time Sense

9 Ambidexterity

5 Eidetic Memory

3 Lightning Calculator

6 Speed Reading: 100 x Input Speed

 

 

Please note he is a 300pt character, and as such can easily be rewritten to abide by 5th ed standards for Elemental Controls. I'm not going to do that right now just because it would take far too long.

 

 

Since Running is the only thing that could be placed in a 5th EC, that means that the EC would effectively disappear. And that would cost 70 extra points. The Limitations on skills are very questionable. Usually 5th edition guidelines on skills means that if they're limited, they start at a 9- without any characteristic bonuses. It's going to cost you a bunch of points to fix that.

 

Now you're not only well over budget, but you're main attack is 8d6 and your defenses are 20/20. Would you really play this character in an average 350 campaign?

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Well, since you've already declared earlier in this thread that PS CEO, KS Business World, and Bureaucracy means that the character has no idea how to run a company, I'm afraid that your idea of "minimum" is different from mine.

 

And based on the other poll, vastly different from the majority of people who actually play Champions.

 

Actually, it split pretty evenly between 30+ and less than 30+ (favouring 30+). And I _really_ doubt anyone other than you would count COM and Wealth, based on comments in that thread.

 

Edit: Want to know why?

Because this:

20 COM 50

10 Wealthy

 

Would not count. I doubt anyone WOULD agree on that.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Since Running is the only thing that could be placed in a 5th EC, that means that the EC would effectively disappear. And that would cost 70 extra points. The Limitations on skills are very questionable. Usually 5th edition guidelines on skills means that if they're limited, they start at a 9- without any characteristic bonuses. It's going to cost you a bunch of points to fix that.

 

Now you're not only well over budget, but you're main attack is 8d6 and your defenses are 20/20. Would you really play this character in an average 350 campaign?

 

Specifically rewritten to be nerfed? No.

 

In any game where Lariat is considered an acceptable character? No.

 

Simply going back to having an END score and upping the STR to 50 or 60 would pretty much bring it back "into budget". Adding 5 PD/ED wouldn't be impossible either.

 

That rule on skills surprises and intrigues me. It also makes very little sense.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Actually, it split pretty evenly between 30+ and less than 30+ (favouring 30+). And I _really_ doubt anyone other than you would count COM and Wealth, based on comments in that thread.

 

Edit: Want to know why?

Because this:

20 COM 50

10 Wealthy

 

Would not count. I doubt anyone WOULD agree on that.

 

 

You forget that I specified perks and comeliness in my initial post. And Lariat has 31, so she captures the 30+ group as well.

 

Assuming that the GM doesn't treat 50 Com as a Power and give it extra benefits, why wouldn't that provide a unique 'hook' for the right character? Otherwise it's basically 20 pts spent purely on conception.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Specifically rewritten to be nerfed? No.

 

In any game where Lariat is considered an acceptable character? No.

 

Simply going back to having an END score and upping the STR to 50 or 60 would pretty much bring it back "into budget". Adding 5 PD/ED wouldn't be impossible either.

 

That rule on skills surprises and intrigues me. It also makes very little sense.

 

 

Pay End? Aren't you sacrificing Conception to build a more powerful character? I thought that was a big NO NO.

 

You're saving 44 pts by taking off 0 End from all powers and Str, but you're spending 23 to buy back your End. That's netting only 21 pts and you're still over budget. You still have no budget for extra Str or PD/ED.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

You forget that I specified perks and comeliness in my initial post. And Lariat has 31, so she captures the 30+ group as well.

 

Assuming that the GM doesn't treat 50 Com as a Power and give it extra benefits, why wouldn't that provide a unique 'hook' for the right character? Otherwise it's basically 20 pts spent purely on conception.

 

Fine, how about I put up the nuanced poll that doesn't include it and see how different the votes go?

 

Wanna bet it will bear out your conclusion?

 

 

Also, notice that 31+ indicates 30 is LOW. Indeed, it would indicate 30 is as low as they would go. Which would mean Lariat is STILL skills light, by majority opinion, even counting everything your way.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Fine, how about I put up the nuanced poll that doesn't include it and see how different the votes go?

 

Wanna bet it will bear out your conclusion?

 

 

Also, notice that 31+ indicates 30 is LOW. Indeed, it would indicate 30 is as low as they would go. Which would mean Lariat is STILL skills light, by majority opinion, even counting everything your way.

 

 

What kind of bizarro world are you coming from with that statement? Oh yeah, the same bizarro world where PS CEO, KS Business World, and Bureaucratics indicates that a character has no idea how to run a company.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Pay End? Aren't you sacrificing Conception to build a more powerful character? I thought that was a big NO NO.

 

You're saving 44 pts by taking off 0 End from all powers and Str, but you're spending 23 to buy back your End. That's netting only 21 pts and you're still over budget. You still have no budget for extra Str or PD/ED.

 

Since the precise amounts of movement and DEF were chosen to match the EC (because there was no concept driven reason for them to be at any value other than "high"), and buying up STR doesn't actually have much of a net point cost...

 

And even by your math removing the EC only cost 70. So no, everything comes "within budget".

 

 

...and who said sacrificing conception was a problem? You should just ACTUALLY sacrifice the conception, not claim it as a freebie.

 

If I was playing a CEO with no interpersonal skills, I'd note that in my concept. If I was playing one who had burnt all the business connections that made them where they were that day, I''d note it.

 

If I realized my character had too few skills, I'd cut powers.

 

Stop trying to paint an absurd caricature of me as some raving idiot. It's inaccurate, and you're doing a shoddy job of it.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Since the precise amounts of movement and DEF were chosen to match the EC (because there was no concept driven reason for them to be at any value other than "high"), and buying up STR doesn't actually have much of a net point cost...

 

And even by your math removing the EC only cost 70. So no, everything comes "within budget".

 

No it doesn't. You still have to buy those skills on limitations straight.

 

 

...and who said sacrificing conception was a problem? You should just ACTUALLY sacrifice the conception, not claim it as a freebie.

 

If I was playing a CEO with no interpersonal skills, I'd note that in my concept. If I was playing one who had burnt all the business connections that made them where they were that day, I''d note it.

 

If I realized my character had too few skills, I'd cut powers.

 

Stop trying to paint an absurd caricature of me as some raving idiot. It's inaccurate, and you're doing a shoddy job of it.

 

 

I don't need to paint a caricature of you. You're doing a fine job on your own.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

No it doesn't. You still have to buy those skills on limitations straight.

 

 

When I say that rule surprises and intrigues me, I mean I've never heard of it before. So before I take it into account, I'm going to have to ask where the hell it came from...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I don't need to paint a caricature of you. You're doing a fine job on your own.

 

Incidently, if you feel you need to directly insult someone else, it's a good sign you've run out of things to say.

 

In other words, you lose.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

When I say that rule surprises and intrigues me' date=' I mean I've never heard of it before. So before I take it into account, I'm going to have to ask where the hell it came from...[/quote']

 

 

I don't have my book with me, but I know that Limitations on skills require explicit GM permission and is usually a no-no except for certain very narrow exceptions such as 5 pt levels. And there was a passage mentioning the 9- base rolls for limited skills.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Incidently, if you feel you need to directly insult someone else, it's a good sign you've run out of things to say.

 

In other words, you lose.

 

 

You keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll eventually convince yourself of that.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I don't have my book with me' date=' but I know that Limitations on skills require explicit GM permission and is usually a no-no except for certain very narrow exceptions such as 5 pt levels. And there was a passage mentioning the 9- base rolls for limited skills.[/quote']

 

I know the 9- rule was the way it worked for Foci (and foci alone) previously; perhaps you meant that?

[Agent X]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

From the FAQ:

 

Q: The Analyze Style Skill in UMA takes one Turn of observation to use — is this a general requirement for Analyze?

 

A: It’s a good rule of thumb, but it’s not necessarily required for all iterations of Analyze. It depends on what’s being analyzed and similar factors; the GM should use his judgment, of course, defaulting to a Turn of observation unless he has some reason to prefer another approach.

 

 

This one recommends 1 full Turn to use the skill. That should curb the abuse immediately.

 

 

 

 

Q: What restrictions, if any, exist regarding the use of the Analyze Skill as a Complementary Roll for Find Weakness?

 

A: First, the GM might not always allow a Complementary Skill Roll; I know I certainly wouldn’t if I thought a player was abusing the privilege or attempting to exploit the rules for his own benefit at the expense of the game. I suspect most GMs would feel the same. Even without that, many GMs establish limits on Skill Rolls that would prevent a character from buying Analyze “really high.â€

 

Second, a Complementary Roll won’t necessarily succeed; it might add nothing. A purchased bonus to FW always improves its roll.

 

Third, an Analyze roll is only going to Complement a Find Weakness roll if it applies to whatever the character’s trying to Find Weakness against. Analyze Style or Analyze Fighting Technique, probably the two most common forms of Analyze, wouldn’t ever add to FW; they involve analyzing something intangible. Analyze Vehicle wouldn’t help a character make FW rolls against an enemy’s powered armor, or a building wall. And so on.

 

 

This FAQ seems to agree that it's a GM option thing anyway.

My Cap has Analyze: Defenses.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

My Cap has Analyze: Defenses.

 

 

I'd probably rule that it takes a full turn to use like the first FAQ question recommends. Otherwise you're getting a 5 pt power for 2 pts.

[Fox1]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

I'd probably rule that it takes a full turn to use like the first FAQ question recommends. Otherwise you're getting a 5 pt power for 2 pts.

 

It shouldn't be hard to last a full turn. Cap does defense well.

 

Or just spend the 5 points. It's not like Cap has a budget.

[Gary]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

It shouldn't be hard to last a full turn. Cap does defense well.

 

Or just spend the 5 points. It's not like Cap has a budget.

 

 

The important thing is to get Cap right. He should be someone who one shots agents and mooks, takes 2-4 hits to take out other top martial artists or weak bricks, and someone who can't really do any direct damage to a tough brick such as Rhino or Executioner.

[Guest C--]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

The important thing is to get Cap right. He should be someone who one shots agents and mooks' date=' takes 2-4 hits to take out other top martial artists or weak bricks, and someone who can't really do any direct damage to a tough brick such as Rhino or Executioner.[/quote']

 

Except he can drop pretty strong martial artists in one hit, and can do damage to the Rhino (not a lot, but some). People are gonna disagree on what Cap can do, which makes it hard to agree on stats.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Except he can drop pretty strong martial artists in one hit' date=' and [i']can[/i] do damage to the Rhino (not a lot, but some). People are gonna disagree on what Cap can do, which makes it hard to agree on stats.

 

Yep.

 

Things Cap can do:

Break Wolverines neck with his shield (if it came to that).

Withstand a hit by Marvel's strongest (Hulk, Thor, etc..) to the shield.

 

Things Cap might not be able to do:

Beat a true Speedster. I seem to remember an onld issue of Avengers where Quicksilver gave the WHOLE TEAM trouble! (Inclucing Thor, Iron-Man and Cap).

 

I'd quote more if I was more of a Marvel fan.

 

HM

[Fox1]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Except he can drop pretty strong martial artists in one hit' date=' and [i']can[/i] do damage to the Rhino (not a lot, but some). People are gonna disagree on what Cap can do, which makes it hard to agree on stats.

 

It's basically impossible for an open challenge like this; the comics are not consistent enough to model.

 

Even if they were- the core concept of Captain America (someone who always out-performs his ablities, the one hero Kovac feared of all the Avengers, the one man Doom expected to reach him in Secret Wars, etc... etc...) is not something that can be done in game stats.

 

You can do a decent enough job to work in a specific game. But only for that game. He works in mine (it's actually a shared GM campaign, but I do the character designs for all the heroes) because we make sure that anything else constructed in it allows him his place.

[OddHat]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

All comic book characters have the following:

 

Writer's Fiat Pool: Variable Power Pool (Plot Device Pool), 200 base + 50 control cost, (300 Active Points); all slots No Conscious Control (Writer decides when effects come into play, character may use them freely once active; -1).

 

Most Action Movie characters have the same thing.

[Fox1]

Re: Could your Champions character beat...

 

Things Cap might not be able to do:

Beat a true Speedster. I seem to remember an onld issue of Avengers where Quicksilver gave the WHOLE TEAM trouble! (Inclucing Thor, Iron-Man and Cap).

 

Yep, make that a might.

 

I had fun in a game running Cap with Quicksilver on the other side. Things weren't going well, but the player running him was being just a tad too consistent in his racing path...

 

A bit of terrain use, a bit of stealth/concealment skill, and as our friend rounded the corner he got the shield in the face (Martial Throw with shield- SPX just holding it in his run path).

 

Surprise Move, +V/5....