Trebuchet Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Lots of interesting data on all the M1 models as well as weapons and armor performance data, including lots of excellent diagrams and photos. http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Yeah, I went to that site a while back while trying to figure out Tank armor stats... one thing I didn't see back then was the info on what disabled tanks during Operation: Iraqi Freedom. Even incidences where 25mm APDU rounds disabled a tank from the rear, so DEF20 for the sides/rear sounds most definately too high, or APDU rounds are APX2...one or the other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted May 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Yeah, I went to that site a while back while trying to figure out Tank armor stats... one thing I didn't see back then was the info on what disabled tanks during Operation: Iraqi Freedom. Even incidences where 25mm APDU rounds disabled a tank from the rear, so DEF20 for the sides/rear sounds most definately too high, or APDU rounds are APX2...one or the other! I have always felt the "Silver Bullets" from the 120mm on the Abrams should be AP x2. They're the best AT round in the world; bar none. Did you see the penetration numbers on the new 3rd generation (M828E3) Silver Bullet? 960mm of hardened rolled armor steel at 2000 meters! That's 37 inches! An M1A2's DU round could easily have poked 6" holes in WW2 era battleships' main armor belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site I have always felt the "Silver Bullets" from the 120mm on the Abrams should be AP x2. They're the best AT round in the world; bar none. Did you see the penetration numbers on the new 3rd generation (M828E3) Silver Bullet? 960mm of hardened rolled armor steel at 2000 meters! That's 37 inches! An M1A2's DU round could easily have poked 6" holes in WW2 era battleships' main armor belts. Oh yeah, definately. I write up my 120mm APFSDSDU rounds as 6D6K APX2. (HEAT rounds are AP/PEN) always have! Of course, the front of my M1A1 is HardenedX2, but the sides/rear/top is only hardened once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Because I love you all insanely: Keith "Map Guy" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Have you tried just going to goarmy.com or http://www.army.mil/? these sites have lots of cool military stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Because I love you all insanely: Keith "Map Guy" Curtis Man, that's better than porno... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site I love the Tank picture. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to keithcurtis again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site info on 140mm gun. intresting that it doubles 120mm in engery. From the strageypage web site. Lord Ghee May 20, 2005: China is testing a 140mm gun on one its Type 98 tanks, and has released photos of test firings. Other countries have been investigating this sort of weapon, especially in the 1980s and 1990s. But no one has adopted the larger weapon for their tanks, mainly because the Russian “super tank†(equipped with a 152mm gun) that was supposed to justify it never appeared (when the Cold War ended). Although the 140mm gun can fire an armor piercing round with twice the penetrating power of one fired from a 120mm gun (about 22 mega joules of energy, versus 11), the amount of ammunition carried is cut by about a third (to 20-30 rounds, depending on the tank). The 140mm shell is about fifty percent larger than the 120mm one, and can probably knock out an M-1 tank. The 140mm round weighs 80 pounds, and is loaded in two parts (so a human loader can handle it). The Chinese tank uses an autoloader, so the round can be loaded in one piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site I'm leary of the battlefield feasibility of the 140mm cannon as a direct-fire tank weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site I'm leary of the battlefield feasibility of the 140mm cannon as a direct-fire tank weapon. Yeah. Sounds good on paper, but you never know how these things are going to play out until they've been exensively tested in battlefield conditions. Of course, technologically speaking, its quite feasible. The 120mm has been the supreme tank round for some decades now. It makes sense that an upgrade would be forthcoming sooner or later... But taking out an M1? Thats a bold statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted May 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Yeah. Sounds good on paper, but you never know how these things are going to play out until they've been exensively tested in battlefield conditions. Of course, technologically speaking, its quite feasible. The 120mm has been the supreme tank round for some decades now. It makes sense that an upgrade would be forthcoming sooner or later... But taking out an M1? Thats a bold statement! Well, it won't do the Chinese a damn bit of good to build tanks with a 140mm "Abrams Killer" if the Abrams' superior optics and fire control allow the Abrams' to kill the so-called übertank from two klicks away with their "obsolete" 120mm. And the commies still don't have Chobham armor to stop our still deadly Silver Bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Pardon the thread necromancy but... I am trying to find some counters for modern vehicles (cars, trucks, police cars, etc.). Some stuff similar to the excellent tank that Keith Curtis posted above (post #5). I have had no luck with google and I can't even find any for sale that I am sure are sized right for a 25mm hex grid. Anybody got any leads they'd care to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Stuf like this has been posted on before. IIRC, Hotwheels, while not exactly the right size, work out decently. They fit well in two 1" hexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Yeah but it's hard to set the mininatures on top of other minatures or Hotwheels. I want some flat counters, or tiles, that are the right scale. I have a good color printer and would love to print out my own, I just can't find any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Ah. I have a set of Car Wars flat vehicle counters that would work. It's from the deluxe box set they put out a few years ago. I don't see anything similar on their web site now, but maybe some web searches would find some. Example: Here's one result from a quick Google search of "car wars counters:" http://www.esglabs.com/spark/downloads/counters/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site I acutally found my rulebook on the shelf. Car Wars is 1/180 scale, or 1"=15 feet. You'll have to increase the size by just over 2x on the CW counters to get the correct Hero scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site The x1.5 set is close but still a little too small (and the drawings are all real low detail). I think that I'll experiment. I'll see if I can find some top views of vehicles and scale them myself. If I come up with something that I like I'll post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Yeah but it's hard to set the mininatures on top of other minatures or Hotwheels. I want some flat counters' date=' or tiles, that are the right scale. I have a good color printer and would love to print out my own, I just can't find any.[/quote'] Try some of these: http://www.stonessoundstudio.com.au/stone/Car_3D_%20top%20view-subs-rears.jpg http://www.resources.com/images/VW%20Top%20View.jpg http://www.volkswagen.co.jp/cars/GUC/img/new/car_topview.gif http://www.homeconcepts.ca/garage-plans/garage-images/6160_Lanark/LanMF.gif http://www.internationalfleetservices.com/intimages/information/carplan.gif http://www.3dm3.com/tutorials/car3/blueprint.jpg Keith "10 minutes on Google Images" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site I found some counters for vehicles that I think may work and they're free! Checkout the bottom of this page. Acrobat format, a few cars and other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23488 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Excellent find by Captain Obvious. I Scaled these to 80% size and they are just about perfect for my gaming mat. 25mm hexes = 6 foot and this makes the cars just about 12 feet long. Rep to you. (Well rep as soon at the 24 hour limit will allow me to rep again.) EDIT: Here's your rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site That was a good find. I searched the forums but couldn't locate that. Just FYI, I measured a 1990 four door Ford Taurus sedan at 15 feet, which is 4.6 meters or 2.3 hexes. (Hero's on metric now, yes?) An full sized Ford F150 pick up was 18 feet, or 5.5 meters and 2.75 hexes. Just a sayin'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site My old Trans Am was 18' long. I remember measuring it for just that purpose. Keith "12 feet is a short, short car" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Re: Cool M1 Abrams tank site Good, I am glad someone measured. I had been thinking about taking the tape measure out to the driveway. This saved me the trouble. I guess I need to make them a little larger than 80%. I'll experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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