casualplayer Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Oscorp, the wholly owned subsidiary of Wayne Enterprises in a conjoined universe, has the formula to goblin glider exhaust in its database. Green Goblin has been harshing on spider sense for decades. It's not just the symbiote slashers that can bypass it. Mystics tend to blow right past it also. Spider-Man used to be a 43 STR, but he's probably around a 48 STR now. Kinda like Class 100 doesn't really apply in Marvel anymore, Spidey's STR has notched up. He really is a sneakily costumed turbo-brick, not a dodgeball. His combat luck's SFX has been "I get out of the way" for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I know that Spidey has faced the Hulk before (in the early issues - at least twice before #125, I think), and he does quite well, up until the point where Hulk starts tossing big heavy objects around. Eventually Hulk gets really, really ticked and lands a lucky punch of uses an AoE attack, and Spidey has to retreat. Coincidentally, this is usually when enough heavy artillery arrives to dissuade the Hulk from staying. The first encounter of Spidey v. Batman probably would wind up as Supreme Serpent wrote. The second would go more like this: S: Back for more? For such a great detective, you sure are a slow learner. Thippp Hissss (sound of webbing dissolving) Fwap, fwap, fwap (smoke-releasing batarangs go flying) S: Hah! Smokes won't affect my trusty Spidey-sense. Hey! Where'd you go? I can't sense you in all this smoke. Bamf! Pow! Kablooie! *thump of Spidey hitting the floor, KO'd* B: That's the problem with superpowers. You never learn how to think your way out of a problem. See, Batman cheats. He'd probably lose the first time, and then come up with all sorts of gadgets and gizmos to counteract Spidey's powers. Spidey has demonstrated the ability to "cheat" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Spiderman's Spider Sense can be blocked by the goblins. They have a chemical formula that can block it for about 24 hours. Still, Batman vs. Spidey is a great fight, because they both cheat outrageously to beat people far more powerful. As I stated before, I think Batman's plan of attack is pretty obvious. And it would have a good chance of working, but then again, Spidey has a habit of being REALLY stubborn, so it's a long way from guaranteed. And measuring the right amount of drug would be tricky. This is probably one of those series that gets split 5-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garou Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... With this senario, How did BAtman learn of Spidey's Spider-sense (pp)? He didn't need it in the first encounter, and Spiderman doesn't usually advertise the fact, though he does comment about every once in a while. Also how does Batman figure out how to block it? The only characters who could do it reliably are Venoom and Carnage. Because of the Costume connection. And Spidey prctices "blind". He ties a blindfold over his eyes then dodges around the room, using his spidey sense to keep from hitting the furniture in the room. Mysterio has blocked it as well, so there is precedent. Heck, Doc Orc broadcast over it in one of the early issues (IIRC). How does Batman learn about it? Easy - the Dark Knight isn't going to face Spidey the second time without doing some prepwork beforehand. Spidey has bragged about it plenty, and it's been mentioned in the Daily Bugle (IIRC). It's not as though it's existence is unknown, just it's function. Deprived of Spidey sense, he's still tough, but Batman is the one who is setting the stage for the second encounter, not Spidey. Bats is going to play a lot of dirty tricks, and we know that there are plenty of conditions under which Spidey can be beat. Batman too - it's really a matter of planning and terrain - unpreprared or in an open space, Spidey has the edge. In a prepared encounter, or in a broom closet, Batman will eat Spidey for lunch. Agent X, Spidey would cheat in the third match, and so it would probably result in a draw. It really comes down to who is writing the cross-oever anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdog Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... The only Marvel character I'd give dibs in agility over Spidey is Nightcrawler. Reminds me of their brief encounter in Secret Wars #3: Nightcrawler: I'll get him! I'm as fast and agile as he is! (gets webbed) Spiderman: Not on the best day of your life, Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler (thinking): His strength! His speed! Unbelievable! He is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libra Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Two of my greatest Comic-Book crossover wishes are: (1) To see Batman take on Captain America. (2) To see Batman take on Spidey. Those two characters are the only men in comics I might bet on against Bats. Anyone else does not even come close. If they were well written they would be magnificent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Batman vs. Cap and Spidey. Well, to me it comes out like this... Batman has better fighting skills. Batman has better gadgets (although web-shooters are awesome!) Batman might have the edge on Cap in terms of speed and agility, but it's too close to call in my opinion, even with Cap being post-human-max potentially. Batman is smarter than Caps, possibly smarter than Spidey, but that's a hard one to call as Spidey is supposed to be damn intelligent. I'd probably give it to Batman over-all as he's consistently portrayed as really smart. Batman is more tactically aware than Spidey, despite Spidey's phenomenal experience. With Cap it's close but I might give the edge to Batman. Caps and Spidey are both stronger, Spidey considerably. Caps and Spidey are both tougher than Batman. Caps and Spidey are both possessed of more endurance. Spidey whips Batman in terms of speed and agility. He also is able to dodge most of Batman's attacks. All three have willpower in spades. Batman is probably the most driven of the three, but Cap and Spidey have both been shown to have phenomenal will, allowing them to fight on in impossible circumstances. I have to analyse the above information and conclude as follows... Batman vs. Captain America: Batman win 58% Captain America win 40% Tied contest 2% Batman vs. Spider-man: Batman win 22% Spider-man win 75% Tied contest 3% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Deprived of Spidey sense' date=' he's still tough, but Batman is the one who is setting the stage for the second encounter, not Spidey...[/quote'] Why does Spidey walk into Bats' setup exactly? Spidey has ignored his Spider-Sense and walked into danger in the past to save someone, but unless you are saying that Bats would stoop to kidnapping or threatening someone to lure Spidey in I can't imagine a scenario where Bats gets the drop on Spidey. ...Batman might have the edge on Cap in terms of speed and agility' date=' but it's too close to call in my opinion, even with Cap being post-human-max potentially...[/quote'] Cap has given the Beast a run for his money in the agility and speed department, so unless you would classify Bats as quicker or more agile than the Beast, Cap has that advantage over Bats as well. I think they got it right in the Avengers vs. JLA, these 2 would never seriously fight each other. There's just no reason for them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Hmmm, well, this isn't a Batman vs. Captain America thread... but I'll bite. Why is there no reason for them to fight? If they exist in the same universe then plenty of reasons could come up. Batman decides to break into a military installation, not for the first time. Cap is on the grounds and is called in to stop him. Cap is under the influence of Nightmare and is trying to launch nuclear weapons at various North American cities, Batman has to stop him. I could go on. Of course they can fight, it just has to be sufficiently contrived! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... ... Batman decides to break into a military installation, not for the first time. Cap is on the grounds and is called in to stop him. Cap is under the influence of Nightmare and is trying to launch nuclear weapons at various North American cities, Batman has to stop him. I could go on. Of course they can fight, it just has to be sufficiently contrived! The key word for me is "seriously". Let me clarify this by saying that I am talking about fighting each other the way they would fight the Joker or Red Skull. In your first scenario, Cap and Bats may tussle for a few panels until either Bats runs off and waits for Cap to leave, Bats incapacitates Cap since he had done his homework on the instillation and knew Cap would be there or until Cap talks to Bats and finds out what this is all about. Not exactly a Pier 6 Brawl. Second scenario, Cap under Nightmare's control is obviously not going to be fighting at 100% (since somewhere inside he'll be trying to fight off Nightmare too) and it taints the results of any fight between them under these circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioKAOS Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Old bats is by far the smartest. I believe in the old DC heroes he ended up with a 12 Intelligence. From what I remember about the system, every point above 2 [human average] is a doubling. So, in HERO fashion, this would leave Batty with an INT of what, 60? I certainly wouldn't give Spidey that. Sheesh, Reed Richards may not even get that. Of course DC vs. Marvel is a silly argument in terms of power classes, DC is by far more powerful. As a side note, I remember Aquaman having a 13 INT and Supes coming in with a 14. Oh well, I guess they had to give Aquaman something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I would sooner see "Batman" take on "The Green Goblin" or "Mysterio". I tend to find the "heros meet. heros fight" idea that was (and maybe still is) prevalent at "Marvel" to be boring ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I would sooner see "Batman" take on "The Green Goblin" or "Mysterio". I tend to find the "heros meet. heros fight" idea that was (and maybe still is) prevalent at "Marvel" to be boring ! I keep wanting to write a true "crossover" for Spiderman and Batman - where Batman ends up in Spiderman's New York, and Spiderman in Batman's Gotham. Batman meets the Punisher, Electro and Doctor Octopus, while Spiderman deals with The Riddler, Killer Croc and the Joker. But I'm lazy and of indeterminate talent, so I'm very unlikely to ever actually get it done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Spidey whips most Bat-villains. Batman probably beats most Spidey-villains. They're the heroes, right? Something that always made me laugh in the Spider-man/Batman crossover from a few years ago was when Batman hurt Carnage with a martial arts kick! Cracked me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libra Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I would purely love to see Batman meet the Punisher. Castle would be taking a tour of the most scenic local walls in seconds. A fight between Norman Osbourne Goblin and Batman? COOOOOOOOOOOOOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Norman Osborne as the Green Goblin so would fit into Batman's Rogues Gallery. And there has been a Batman/ Punisher crossover. It was referenced in Avengers/JLA crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I would purely love to see Batman meet the Punisher. Castle would be taking a tour of the most scenic local walls in seconds. This happened in the JLA/Avengers miniseries. The Justice League crosses over to Marvel-Earth to find various artifacts of power that the Grandmaster told them they needed. They fan out all over the globe, and they don't care much for what they see. There's Doctor Doom gloating over his tyrannized subjects--the Hulk in the aftermath of a rampage--the obliterated nation of Genosha--and more. Through it all, Batman was co-ordinating the League's search, and he keeps admonishing the Leaguers with "Observe and report--no getting involved." Then he catches sight of The Punisher going into a drug gang's hideout with guns blazing. He leaves Plastic Man behind to slip through a skylight in the roof-- The next page has the League gathered on an island where they've located one of the artifacts (The Ultimate Nullifier), and Plastic Man soundly berates Batman: PLAS: "Stick with the plan, he says! Observe and report, he says! But does HE follow the plan? Or does he spend twenty minutes beating up a loon in Kevlar to save some drug dealers?!" The best moment in the whole miniseries--apart from all the other moments--and it had to happen off-panel. Oh, well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Given how popular "The Punisher" appears to be I couldn't see "Marvel" letting him get beaten up "on camera" as it were. I don't understand WHY the character is so popular, mind you, but then I have never read any of the comics either ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I'm mainly familiar with the Punisher from crossovers.The main reason he's popular is because,if your family were killed by criminals (as his was) ,wouldn't you want to avenge them? He sees himself as a soldier fighting a war on crime. (And the fact that he has lots of cool weaponry adds to his popularity as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I love the fact that Batman trashes the Punisher. Heh. Here's a thought... hmm, actually no, I'll start a new thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I'm pretty sure that Spiderman could take shaunclinton. Probably first round knockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... Who is shaunclinton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunclinton Posted May 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I am he!!! I'd give myself a 58.75% chance against Spidey. I'd probably just pop round his place and hit on MJ, he'd come home to find me boning his wife and go nutso... but Pete'd be reasonable. I'd then convince MJ the only way we can be together is if she kills Peter. She doesn't trigger his Spidey-sense when she sneaks up behind him and shoots him! Voila!!! If it comes down to me vs. Spidey in the concrete canyons of NYC then more like 37% chance. I'm not as fast as he is, but maybe a little stronger. I reckon I'm probably smarter but he has some more fighting experience. Chances are we just team up and go hunting Death-tribbles for fun and profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libra Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... "Thats my angle. If you really want to hunt them then buy a steel codpiece as swiftly as possible. The Half-Demon ones go for the groin exclusively. Oh, and always walk softly and carry a big gun. I may share more Tribble-Huntin' wisdom with you if you are nice to me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarron Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Re: Spiderman vs... I always have to trot out my fan-boy viewpoint on Spider-man in these threads. And I concur with a couple of the points made earlier. Spidey will probably beat any non-cosmic supers in the Marvel Universe. And given that he beat Firelord, even some cosmics are not safe. Just to try to keep this thread going, here's a question... How hard can Spidey punch? The punching power needed to destroy Ironman's armor or to knockout the Firelord is brick level, obviously. How high, though? Mini-brick? I don't think so. I think Spidey, when he cuts loose, can probably hit about as hard as Colossus or the Thing. While that is not Thor or Hulk level, it is just one step down. This is where I think a lot of comparisons of Spidey's power level start to lose focus. People just fail to take into account the ways Spdiey adds to his straight STR punching power. In Champs terms, Spidey has about a 45 STR. He obviously has his own martial art, which nets him an additional 2-4d6N per punch. In addition, he is constantly doing move-bys, move-throughs and passing strikes. Manuevers that add his considerable movement abilities to the attack. Another 1-2d6N? So while he is actually in the 45 STR range (9d6N), he hits more like he is in the 60-75 range (12-15d6N). Very few characters can just shrug off that level of power. It's too many dice. Combine this with the fact that only speedsters will have a higher SPD, and Spiderman's character starts to look like a munchkin's dream come true. Throw in the danger sense and without peer agility and you have a world class combatant. The few times Spiderman has been shown to really cut loose on somebody, you see this character come to life. At the end of the day, Peter Parker is just too nice of a guy to really cut loose on most people, though. So the readers never see it. LOL. I'm 32 years old and I'm cooking up reasons why Spiderman is tougher than cosmic level supers...in the immortal words of Comic Book Guy..."Oh, I've wasted my life." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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