Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

D.A. Jack McCoy: "If the suspect were eight feet tall or weighed 600 pounds' date=' it would be equally difficult to find five other people who closely resembled him. That's not prejudicial--it's a fact. Maybe living skeletons should reconsider crime as a career choice."[/quote']

 

I've got to use a similar situation in a game sometime. Rep to you both!

 

(edit) Imagine lineups involving shapeshifters. Both as tools for the authorities for such unusual suspects, or as suspects themselves. "Would you please pick the Chameleon out of the lineup?"

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Here's a question then: Does Captain America have a secret id?

 

The government knows who he is. SHIELD knows who he is. All the Avengers know who he is. Does the fact that all of those people know who he is negate the fact that the other 99.99% of the population doesn't?

 

If you answer "no" then ultimately the answer should be "no" for a villain as well. Just because a small group of people know who you are doesn't mean that every aspect of your personal life is lost.

 

Cap - I'd say no Secret ID. He's pretty much in the "no ID" land, as far as I know. The general public wouldn't recognize the name "Steve Rogers" or recognize him out of the mask, but someone trying could find it out these days pretty easily, I imagine. The Red Skull knows who he is, as do some of his other villains. As the story arc in 294(?)-300 (Red Skull, Baron Zemo II, Mother Night, etc.) demonstrated, his close friends were pretty big targets.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

There is Secret ID, there is no Secret ID, then there is Public ID. It is quite important to distinguish the three cases.

 

In the case of the Secret ID, the person has an identity that the general public and regular law enforcement agencies whose databases are generally avalable to other DOJ agencies connects to their costumed identitiy.

 

This does not preclude special agencies that do not share the identities of their agents as a matter of record. If I remember correctly, Delta Force keeps the identities of its agents secret and certain intelligence agencies also keep the identities of their agents secret, providing cover identities. The FBI can't just ask these guys to disclose agent identities.

 

Not having a secret ID means that anyone who makes the effort can find out who your real identity is. There are databases out there, people that can be asked who your real identity is. That does not mean that you walk down the street and are instantly picked out. The vast majority of people don't have secret identities but no one aside from friends, family and business aquaintances recognizes them. It is still possible to operate anonymously to the general public.

 

Public identity means when you walk down the street, there's a fairly good chance everyone will recognize who you are. Your reputation has spread to the point where it is difficult for you to operate anonymously with respect to the general public.

 

Supervillains who are jailed lose their secret identities. The question is whether or not they will replace it by a Public ID or not. In most cases, for your average bank robber, the answer is no. For someone more spectacular, whose face ends up in the press continuously, it might be another case entirely.

 

People who make a point of following the superhero/supervillain scene might well recognize a supervillain without a secret ID, but the average person o the street will not. Most real world criminals known to the police don't have secret IDs but because their faces are not publicized, they are able to blend in anonymously in communities where people don't know who they are. For notorious criminals, there have been efforts, including various crime programs, to publicize faces and to encourage people who spot them to call in. In a way that could be modelled as Public ID on an activation roll.

[fbdaury]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Here's a question then: Does Captain America have a secret id?

 

The government knows who he is. SHIELD knows who he is. All the Avengers know who he is. Does the fact that all of those people know who he is negate the fact that the other 99.99% of the population doesn't?

 

If you answer "no" then ultimately the answer should be "no" for a villain as well. Just because a small group of people know who you are doesn't mean that every aspect of your personal life is lost.

 

 

Actually, since Cap snapped the neck of a terrorist on national television and then revealed his identity as well, I'd say he now has Public ID, since his family are all dead and he pretty much hangs out with Avengers and heroes that it's not such a problem for him, but he would have Public ID.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

There is also the Guideline of a Disadvantage needing to limit the character.

Cap has no living family and virtually no friends outside the hero community.

The question is does he need to keep his identity secret or suffer consequences (the basic criteria for Secret ID).

 

I can't recall Captain America EVER making an attempt to conceal his identity out of fear of any particular threat. So, i'd say no Secret ID.

 

A good example of a villain with no secret identity was Blacklash (Whiplash) in his Marvel Team-Up appearance vs. Spider-Man and Iron Man. He went to visit his mother and had mobsters accosting him on the street to make job offers, he was harassed in the local bar by the patrons, he couldn't get a job using his real name. But on the other hand, he isn't bothered like this in places where he isn't as well known (as a Public Identity would indicate)

[MitchellS]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Those are not good examples at all. Why would Cap need a secret id? To protect the people he goes out with. A recognizable Steve just can't go out and party with Clint or Sam without drawing some attention. So much for their secret ids.

 

As for your Blacklash example, secret id doesn't mean no one ever knows your id. There's a very good bet that the people who Blacklash works for know who he is. The point is how easy is it for the PCs to find out who he is and track him down. Not very easy.

 

I don't believe just because the police know who you are that a villain should have a public or non identity. It's too easy for these villains to move in public without getting noticed. That's why I think most of the time it's just and adjustment in the die roll. It becomes harder for the villain to hide himself but he doesn't become a walking target.

[KA.]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Let me begin by saying that I don't think the way anyone else does it is "wrong".

Also, my campaign is four color, so 'realism' is not at a premium.

 

I can see, with the convoluted justice system present today there being some sort of law that would allow Supervillains to maintain their Secret ID.

 

For one thing, it could be a trade-off for allowing costumed supers to testify without revealing their own Secret ID's.

 

Something like a retinal scan could ensure that the villain could be held accountable for things that happened later, like violating parole or repeat offenses, without actually revealing their true identity.

 

It also would help with the "Hero gets arrested" scenario that crops up every once in a while, unless you don't see a problem with automatically stripping away the PC's Secret ID if they 'do the right thing' and turn themselves in when falsely accused of a crime.

 

Obviously any type of helmet or mask that was a focus would be taken away, but it could be replaced with a wrestling style mask that would keep the ID Secret without giving any sort of advantage during a breakout.

 

They could even by placed in an Iron Mask that prevented them removing it.

This would keep them from unmasking (and escaping by blending in with the regular prison population), and it could be fitted with some type of tracking device to help prevent an escape.

 

Again, not telling anyone else how to do it, but I don't have a problem with it myself.

 

KA.

[MitchellS]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

I would think parole would require the wearing of some sort of power restraining belt or harness at all times. This harness would also transmit the location of the parolee 24/7. After a couple of years of parole the harness would be removed an the villain would be allowed fully back into society. I'd be ARGENT makes a good living just offering ways for villains to bypass the harness and look like they're home.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

I would think parole would require the wearing of some sort of power restraining belt or harness at all times. This harness would also transmit the location of the parolee 24/7. After a couple of years of parole the harness would be removed an the villain would be allowed fully back into society. I'd be ARGENT makes a good living just offering ways for villains to bypass the harness and look like they're home.

 

 

Now that's a good idea.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Assuming that a villain who had Secret ID made it through the entire booking/trial process, I'd probably just replace the SocLim: Secret ID with SocLim: Criminal Record worth the same number of points (Such a person will have a harder time finding a job, will be the first suspected if a crime occurs nearby, etc).

[incrdbil]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Here's a question then: Does Captain America have a secret id?

 

Depends: can you get his name through a FOIA request?

 

Being arrested, and having your nbame made part of a court record means your identity is part of a public record. Barring classification, destruction of all records and memory alteration, your name is public. Revealed vilains would be big news, and the name goes on TV, hits the internet. Your vital stats enter the NCIC database.

 

Goodby secret identity, because when it matters, and someone is looking for you, iot takes no extraordinary action to find you; a simple records search. It might not quite be a public identity, but people you on't want to know about you can find out who you are with little effort. Whatever that is, it's not a secret identity.

 

Now, if you undergo plastic surgery, make a new fake id, and such..maybe you have a 'new' secret ID.

 

Unbderground plastic surgery/fingerprint editing clinics must be a booming villain buisness, thusmaking mandatory DNA identification of convicted metahumans a logical step for law enforcement.

[sinanju]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Unbderground plastic surgery/fingerprint editing clinics must be a booming villain buisness' date=' thusmaking mandatory DNA identification of convicted metahumans a logical step for law enforcement.[/quote']

 

Enter The Eraser. No, not Arnold Schwarzenegger. A supervillain with the power to alter people's appearance with a Transform attack. You get a hint of his existence, track down the rumors, put the word out and eventually some guy (and it's always a different guy...or so it appears) shows up.

 

You pay him enough money, and he'll transform you. Change your face, your physique, your teeth, your fingerprints, maybe even your gender. Possibly even your DNA, unless you have superpowers--then you probably don't want that messed with. The more you're willing to pay, the more thoroughly he'll change your identity.

 

That's what he does. That's all he does. He makes a fortune doing that, and doesn't have to deal with getting beaten up by costumed do-gooders for his trouble. (Heck, he might even help out a superhero with identity problems if it came to that.)

[J. Chamberlin]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

The Eraser... I like that.

I sure hope you don't mind if I yoink that guy into my campaign world, do you Sin?

 

j

[incrdbil]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

The Eraser is nice in that he's a great background guy for a supers game, or a viable villain with lackeys for a Dark Champions game. "This guy has helped all sorts of killers be able to hit the streets again but not any more" ::click::

 

Even better, the Eraser can do specific makeovers--now Captain Goodness looks, sounds, and has the features of Dr. Heinous. E. Vile.

[sinanju]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

The Eraser... I like that.

I sure hope you don't mind if I yoink that guy into my campaign world, do you Sin?

 

Not at all. That's why I posted it. I steal stuff--uh, I mean, borrow stuff--all the time myself.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

A character like that could explain a _lot_ in a superhero campaign. Brilliant idea there.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Villains and their Secret ID, post-trial

 

Works well with the likes of Taskmaster and the Tinkerer (ie where do all those thugs and villainous gadgets come from?)

 

Would make for a neat sub-campaign - busting the villainous underground support network - the likes of Taskmaster, Tinkerer, Eraser, and Edna Mode.

 

Masque from the Morlocks in Marvel could fill a similar role if he wasn't such a psycho. In Thunderbolts, Fixer had a procedure to change features/skin color, etc.