There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

[FenrisUlf]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

One outstanding example of this type of horror is Allen Varney's classic Champions setting' date=' "Horror World" aka Anopheles, which he has put on his own website (with Hero Games's permission). Supers is normally the most "empowered" genre in roleplaying, but Allen is brilliant at using the two approaches described above to craft a truly horrifying RPG setting.

 

Thanks for posting the Anopheles link, Lord Liaden. I always did love that adventure.

 

And if anyone wants more info on doing RPG horror, then you could do a lot worse than to reqad Ken Hite's GURPS Horror 3e. (Yes, I mentioned something from another system. Rest assured I will buy five copies of Pulp HERO to expiate my sin.)

[Captain Obvious]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

Thanks for posting the Anopheles link, Lord Liaden. I always did love that adventure.

 

And if anyone wants more info on doing RPG horror, then you could do a lot worse than to reqad Ken Hite's GURPS Horror 3e. (Yes, I mentioned something from another system. Rest assured I will buy five copies of Pulp HERO to expiate my sin.)

 

Don't worry about it. Other games are there to be assimilated.

[BigJackBrass]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I beg to differ...

 

You can be killed on a rollercoaster, even though the possibilities are rare, they do happen...to the tune of approximately four people per year.

 

Granted. A poor choice of words on my part, especially since I saw someone seriously injured on a funfair ride a few years ago. Better to say that the people going on rollercoasters believe that there is no real danger. I'd be very surprised if anyone genuinely expected mortal danger at, say, Disneyland (although the overall sweetness might trigger a diabetic coma).

[FenrisUlf]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I beg to differ...

 

You can be killed on a rollercoaster, even though the possibilities are rare, they do happen...to the tune of approximately four people per year.

 

I remember reading in a book that covered amusement park rides, the food (if you think the rides are dangerous!..), and life on the fairway that the main reason most people die on roller coasters is that they unbuckle themselves, stand up to show off, and either get hurled out or hit their heads against the 'PLEASE REMAIN SEATED' signs.

 

I feel sorry for anyone who dies in such a way, but some folk seem downright agressive about bringing about their own deaths.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

So' date=' you're saying the lethality level of RPGs isn't high enough? [/quote']

It's not that I want to kill off the entire group...but, there needs to be a reasonable amount of "fear" in a horror setting, and I just don't see the genre as translating very well in a RPG.

[ThothAmon]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I'll refute the opening statement. I've managed to scare players such that they subsequently have nightmares featuring in-game events. And not munchkin kids either.

 

Nevertheless I'd suggest that such a reaction is a product of both players and GM getting into the zone.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I'll refute the opening statement. I've managed to scare players such that they subsequently have nightmares featuring in-game events. And not munchkin kids either.

 

Nevertheless I'd suggest that such a reaction is a product of both players and GM getting into the zone.

But again...It's a rare case indeed.

 

Like I said to Super Squirrel, you probably have some "skiddish" players, especially if they had nightmares featuring "in-game events"...

 

...or possibly they are out of touch with reality?

[Mister E]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

You must be dealing with some really timid players then Super Squirrel.

 

They're probably frightened of their own shadows...

 

BOO!!!

 

Did I scare you?

It might sound funny, a friend of mind, whose big on theatrics, actually does yell "BOO!" every once in a while, and it gets us every time...

 

I remember one night, when he was running a CoC haunted house one-shot... he turned all the lights out, lit candles, and (the worst thing), he played the theme song from "The Exorcist" pretty loudly off his computer in another room. He had us totally freaking out, and we were playing brand-new characters we generally could give a rat's ass about.

 

So with that said, I would say: yes, there can be "real horror" in a Horror RPG setting.

[Cancer]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I've played in a couple of horror-type quickie games (test runs for convention events). Although I don't enjoy horror as a genre (either reading or cinema), the games were OK. You just have to play characters you despise, let them do stupid things, and revel in their hideous deaths.

 

The jerk jock from school? That weasel slimeball manager at work? Your ex's lawyer? Aren't all of those people you'd want to roleplay having their viscera torn out and devoured before their eyes?

 

Last time, when I played the Weasel Slimeball Manager, the plotline involved characters being "converted" by Evil and doing homicidal things. The GM was shaken by how readily I joined in the carnage. I had no problem envisioning that character come in late, calling a late-working office goober into his office, and then beating him to death so he could suck the marrow from his bones...

[Grizzly]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

But again...It's a rare case indeed.

 

 

It's rare, but doable.

 

I've had it done to me once as a player, and done it once as a GM to a group. (And I've been gaming for a quarter-century).

 

Both times, a lot of work went into the session by the GM, and substantial atmospheric work was done...right music, right gaming night (wind howling, winter, trees beating at the windows, etc.)

 

Perhaps most importantly: both of them were horror adventures that were run in campaigns (one espionage, one science fiction) where this was not the "normal" genre for the campaign, so surprise on the players was a factor.

 

The same GM that successfully pulled this on the group never achieved the same effects with CoC and other horror genres. This frustrated him greatly; he was a good GM. Our conclusion was: the players, in expecting and wanting this, destroyed their own sense of suspense.

 

If you want thrills and chills in horror--my take is that they are very difficult to achieve on a regular basis; running them out-of-genre (even a one-shot, given a false premise of a fantasy rescue of a damsel in distress) will give you a much better chance of leaving your players twitching (and talking) for a long time to come.

[austenandrews]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

You're right, there's no real horror in a horror RPG setting. The setting itself doesn't provide horror. The GM's presentation provides horror. Of course not all gaming groups are receptive to it, but that's no different from horror in any medium.

[Mister E]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

Maybe I'm a little confused... is the question whether or not the players 'themselves' are experiencing horror? I'm pretty sure, unless they are fairly insane, that that would have to be impossible.

 

"The dice I'm rolling have 6 sides! What does this mean? This is beyond my understanding! OMG... OMG... OMG...! Maybe everying the DM says is for real! I must kill the DM, before he swollows my soul..."

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I've played in a couple of horror-type quickie games (test runs for convention events). Although I don't enjoy horror as a genre (either reading or cinema), the games were OK. You just have to play characters you despise, let them do stupid things, and revel in their hideous deaths.

 

The jerk jock from school? That weasel slimeball manager at work? Your ex's lawyer? Aren't all of those people you'd want to roleplay having their viscera torn out and devoured before their eyes?

 

Last time, when I played the Weasel Slimeball Manager, the plotline involved characters being "converted" by Evil and doing homicidal things. The GM was shaken by how readily I joined in the carnage. I had no problem envisioning that character come in late, calling a late-working office goober into his office, and then beating him to death so he could suck the marrow from his bones...

Sound more like The Toxic Avenger (see the review at BadMovies.org) than it does a Horror RPG or movie...now doesn't it?

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

You're right' date=' there's no real horror in a horror RPG setting. The setting itself doesn't provide horror. The GM's presentation provides horror. Of course not all gaming groups are receptive to it, but that's no different from horror in any medium.[/quote']

Yes, I agree with you 100% austenandrews, GM presentations is a primary key to horror, but if your players are not receptive...no amount of GM presentation will counteract they lack of receptiveness.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

"The dice I'm rolling have 6 sides! What does this mean? This is beyond my understanding! OMG... OMG... OMG...! Maybe everying the DM says is for real! I must kill the DM' date=' before he swollows my soul..." [/quote']

[yamamura]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

Yes' date=' I agree with you 100% [i']austenandrews[/i], GM presentations is a primary key to horror, but if your players are not receptive...no amount of GM presentation will counteract they lack of receptiveness.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

 

I agree. But it also true for other genres as well. I mean try running a game based on Sailor Moon by a GM that loves it and presents it well to a group of players who loves the Road Warrior. Most likely you will end up with a dud of a game (or something freakishly great). But if you replace those players with Sailor Moon fans, then you will get something close to the genre.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

It's rare, but doable.

 

I've had it done to me once as a player, and done it once as a GM to a group. (And I've been gaming for a quarter-century).

 

Both times, a lot of work went into the session by the GM, and substantial atmospheric work was done...right music, right gaming night (wind howling, winter, trees beating at the windows, etc.)

 

Perhaps most importantly: both of them were horror adventures that were run in campaigns (one espionage, one science fiction) where this was not the "normal" genre for the campaign, so surprise on the players was a factor.

 

The same GM that successfully pulled this on the group never achieved the same effects with CoC and other horror genres. This frustrated him greatly; he was a good GM. Our conclusion was: the players, in expecting and wanting this, destroyed their own sense of suspense.

 

If you want thrills and chills in horror--my take is that they are very difficult to achieve on a regular basis; running them out-of-genre (even a one-shot, given a false premise of a fantasy rescue of a damsel in distress) will give you a much better chance of leaving your players twitching (and talking) for a long time to come.

I think that maybe you are hitting on some excellent points here. Maybe the best way to approach Horror RPGs is to not run them specifically, but introduce elements of horror into your other genres, where it would be least expected.

 

Nobody would expect the horrors from the "depths of Hades" in a Western Hero, Superhero, or Dark Champions campaign...but in a Horror Hero campaign, it's accepted as the norm. The players really won't get scared...because they expect it, and are probably prepared for it.

 

So, maybe there truly isn't "REAL (perceived) Horror" in Horror RPGs...but in your other genres, the "Horror" is the fact that your players will never even think to prepare for it, because they weren't expecting it.

[yamamura]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I had a player whenever we were going to run a horror campaign (this was using 3rd ed. GURPS) would buy up the strong will so he wouldn't be scared. It would be like buying up a ton of PRE in HERO. So I agree, expecting Horror can deter its value unless you are as talented as Mr. Hitchcock. I think some GM could pull off, but his job is harder because of the expectation.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I agree. But it also true for other genres as well. I mean try running a game based on Sailor Moon by a GM that loves it and presents it well to a group of players who loves the Road Warrior. Most likely you will end up with a dud of a game (or something freakishly great). But if you replace those players with Sailor Moon fans' date=' then you will get something close to the genre.[/quote']

Very, Very true!!!

 

Again, it all comes down to perception and receptiveness of the players!!!

[MisterBaldy]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I had a player whenever we were going to run a horror campaign (this was using 3rd ed. GURPS) would buy up the strong will so he wouldn't be scared. It would be like buying up a ton of PRE in HERO. So I agree' date=' expecting Horror can deter its value unless you are as talented as Mr. Hitchcock. I think some GM could pull off, but his job is harder because of the expectation.[/quote']

But, the GM can always "override" the player, and force him to comply with his guidelines...to deter "munchkinism".

 

Alas yamamura, at least somebody acknowledges the true master of horror and terror...Mr. Alfred Hitchcock!!!

[yamamura]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

But' date=' the GM can always "override" the player, and force him to comply with his guidelines...to deter "munchkinism".[/quote']

 

Good point there and the me of today would of set up game parameters to keep that from happening, but me of then wouldn't have thought of that.

[Mr. Negative]

Re: There's No "REAL HORROR" in a Horror RPG setting...is there?

 

I'll refute the opening statement. I've managed to scare players such that they subsequently have nightmares featuring in-game events. And not munchkin kids either.

 

Nevertheless I'd suggest that such a reaction is a product of both players and GM getting into the zone.

 

I have had a group of players actually ask me to stop running a Horror campaign and start running fantasy because it was giving two of them (roomates-and college girls) nightmares.

 

I think that the biggest thing that you need to do is pay attention to the pacing and emphasis of horror literature. Downplay the mechanics, downplay the rolling, and focus on vivid description and careful timing.

 

In my experience, this is more difficult in some crossover-Horror games than it is in a more "realistic" setting. Once you are playing in a Superheroic campaign, the player and character are pretty different in their abilities and perspective. Thus, it's harder for a player to viscerally identify with their character. The more the characters are like "normal" people, the better this works.

 

I think that is the case for two reasons. First, if the players can vividly imagine their characters and the surroundings, then they can more easily and completely become "immersed" in your storytelling.

 

Second, if the characters are "normal", then we instinctively know what is dangerous and what is not. If you or I were confronted by say, a angry stranger, or by a mass of sentient black slime the size of a train, we know which is an "approachable" threat, and which isn't, and we can react instinctively and naturally. If, on the other hand, we are roleplaying a character who is bulletproof, and who can fly, then we start "abstracting" those threats relative to our character, and it distances us from any emotional response.

 

I suspect that long-time players who have favorite characters will be more able to bridge that separation.

 

This is why I have always really liked CoC for Horror roleplaying. In general, either a threat/challenge is something the party can handle (we have guns, they are fanatics with knives) or something the party obviously can't handle (The shoggoth is the size of a locomotive!). Statistics and rules can easily be sublimated to the narrative flow (4 people with automatics can stop 10 fanatics-4 people, even with howitzers, aren't going to stop a shoggoth).

 

Also, weird horror works suprisingly well in a RPG. Forcing people to think about really odd things (slimy hounds emerging from corners of the walls) forces them to pay attention to your descriptions, whereas "standard" horrors (vampires, zombies) are so commonplace to our media-saturated culture that we often just slap a mental template on it and run with the game (Zombie. Check. Outrun it, shoot it in the head. Got it).