A more realistic feel for SH

[CSgeekHero]

I haven't played Star HERO in awhile, just got done with a short Traveller20 deal.

 

However, looking back on the SH campaign I find that even at 75+75 for points had a little bit of an over-the-top feel. I dare say it was a bit comic bookish, go figure. I was wondering if anyone else had the same feelings about it. I know there is a 75+50 option in SH for hard-sf, but has anyone tried a 50+50 deal? Does that help create a more "realistic" or average-joe type sf settings?

[Fitz]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

You can make quite acceptable, playable characters with 50+25 points. I've gone as low as 25+25, but at that level the characters all start to look pretty much identical as far as Characteristics go. The big advantage of a really low-point campaign is that each player really has to specialize in terms of skills; you just can't afford to build a decent swiss-army-knife character.

[CSgeekHero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

Thanks.

That was something I was thinking about for the future was making sure everyone had their own specialization. That's especially helpful when creating a spaceship crew.

[John Desmarais]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

You can make quite acceptable' date=' playable characters with 50+25 points. I've gone as low as 25+25, but at that level the characters all start to look pretty much identical as far as Characteristics go. The big advantage of a really low-point campaign is that each player really has to specialize in terms of skills; you just can't afford to build a decent swiss-army-knife character.[/quote']

 

At 25+25 (and maybe even 50+25) I would recommend shifting the NCM down to 15. By encouraging lower stats the players have more points left for skills (which at low levels do more to differentiate the characters than stats to).

[CSgeekHero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

At 25+25 (and maybe even 50+25) I would recommend shifting the NCM down to 15. By encouraging lower stats the players have more points left for skills (which at low levels do more to differentiate the characters than stats to).

 

That's a good idea that I hadn't worried about earlier.

I've been looking over the lifting amount, I have 5e not 5er, and it seems like an average guy would more realistically have a STR of between 8 and 10. I was figuring on 9 which would give someone an extra point for perception or a third of the way to a new skill. Being able to lift 220lbs.(100kg) starts to get into the athlete area as opposed to someone used to relying on their technology for help.

[austenandrews]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

I like 50+25. That's enough for PCs to be expert at their specialty, but not invincible in combat like 75+75 can get. Throw in some optional rules like Disabling and you can build a fairly down-to-earth setting.

[Grizzly]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

At 25+25 (and maybe even 50+25) I would recommend shifting the NCM down to 15. By encouraging lower stats the players have more points left for skills (which at low levels do more to differentiate the characters than stats to).

 

Let me say first that I have enjoyed playing and running lower-point characters, both in SH, FH and the former Danger International.

 

My take, though, from historical trends from my groups, is that you don't need to modify the NCM by rules change. One of the common disads players took in this style of campaign was the age limitations (in both 40+ and 60+ flavors), since they weren't going to have high characteristic values anyway. Let the "player's market" determine characteristic maxima instead.

 

(And I'm not being age-ist, here, I'm now in the 40+ group myself).

 

But yes, pretty much had a new characteristic base of about 8 in 25+25 campaigns.

 

Thanks for the post. Enjoyed many of the lower-point campaigns of the past. My newest campaign that I'm starting out I'd intended to start at 75+75, but the group absolutely rebelled, saying they couldn't make effective characters at that point level, and no amount of discussion could change their minds. So I'm trying to keep my players happy.

 

Still trying to figure that one out, without much success. Maybe part of it is that the gaming group has reduced in size over the years, due to all the usual factors, and folks feel the need for more points so that the group can do absolutely everything.

 

But there's substantial ability overlap between characters, and I remember being very happy (as a player) when my character was the only one that had a necessary skill for an adventure. As a player AND a GM, having NPCs who appeared who had a desperately-needed skill that the PCs didn't have offered a lot of roleplaying opportunities. As a GM...it was easier to stat out lower-point villains.

 

And combat actually seemed to run faster with most of the folks being SPD 2 or 3. 4 doesn't seem to make things any more difficult, but adding SPD 5+ sure seems to comparatively slow things down.

 

Wish you luck, and have fun!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

That's a good idea that I hadn't worried about earlier.

I've been looking over the lifting amount, I have 5e not 5er, and it seems like an average guy would more realistically have a STR of between 8 and 10. I was figuring on 9 which would give someone an extra point for perception or a third of the way to a new skill. Being able to lift 220lbs.(100kg) starts to get into the athlete area as opposed to someone used to relying on their technology for help.

 

Not really. *I* can lift 220lbs, and I'm nowhere near an athlete. Don't forget that the "Maximum lift" listed with STR scores is exactly that. Steve has said that the lifting amount is the amount that the character can barely lift off the ground and stumble a few steps before having to drop it again...thus STR 10 is actually about right for an "average" guy around 6'2" or so to be able to lift.

[CSgeekHero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

I like 50+25. That's enough for PCs to be expert at their specialty' date=' but not invincible in combat like 75+75 can get. Throw in some optional rules like Disabling and you can build a fairly down-to-earth setting.[/quote']

Great. That really does help.

Wish you luck, and have fun!

Thank you.

Not really. *I* can lift 220lbs' date=' and I'm nowhere near an athlete. Don't forget that the "Maximum lift" listed with STR scores is [i']exactly that[/i]. Steve has said that the lifting amount is the amount that the character can barely lift off the ground and stumble a few steps before having to drop it again...thus STR 10 is actually about right for an "average" guy around 6'2" or so to be able to lift.

I understand how Steve arrived at those values now. Thanks.

[Nevenall]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

I started my Star Wars campaign at 25+25 and it has worked out very well.

I did, however, artificially limit the characters to only one primary characteristic at 15, and the rest couldn't be more then 13. Same thing for skills; the characters could have one skill at 14- and the rest had to be less then 12-. I did this so every character could have one specialty, but they would still be ordinary people.

 

I did find that I had to tone down the characters I took from Hero products because they were too powerful for my group.

Another rather odd effect is that no one in the campaign has yet bought their speed higher then 2. Even though they are all approching 200 total points. I don't know if they don't want to bother with it, of if they figure that I won't give any NPC's a higher speed if they all stay at 2. It does make for a nice flow to combat though.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

I've played SH mostly at 75+50 or therebouts, and personally haven't felt it to be too over-the-top. But the players were all encouraged to spend more points than usual on non-combat skills, so combat skills tended to be lower than typical. Besdies, most characteristics really only have meaning in comparison to other characters. In other words, who cares what our DEX scores are, as long as I'm faster than you. The STR table is an exception to this, of course.

 

(And I'm not being age-ist' date=' here, I'm now in the 40+ group myself).[/quote']

 

Looking forward to those extra 5 disad points myself in a couple months...

 

bigdamnhero

"What, you didn't see it coming?"

[Eodin]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

And in the TravellerHERO pdf we will be releasing (whenever we can get Marc to get back to us) we have this bit of wisdom for more realistic characters, using 75+50 or 100+50...

 

Characters in a TravHERO setting have primary characteristics mainly in the 8-13 range, with some rare 15s. But most characters have aged through the military service route, and have had most of their characteristics lowered through aging (Age 40+ and Age 60+). To maintain this feel, most characters should have no more than one or two characteristics in the 15 range, and most in the 8-13 range.

 

Strength

Except for HTH Combat and STR Min for weapons, STR is less important in a TravellerHERO game. With cargo-loading robots and heavy-work machinery, most humans in the Imperium will have STR in the 8-13 range.

However, geneering (genetic engineering) was practiced by the Ancients ( see the Vargr) and even by other human races in the past. The GM may design genetically engineered humans (such as the Heavyworlders, Martians, and Selkies) on far off worlds with enhanced characteristics.

 

Dexterity

As with STR, DEX in the Imperium is not usually important except in combat and certain skills.

If the GM wishes to keep the DEX in the 8-13 range, he can allow characters to buy 5-point levels with DEX-Based Skills, 3-point levels with a cluster of skills (e.g. Light On His Feet: +1 with Acrobatics, Breakfall, and PS: Dance ), Lightning Reflexes, or additional DEX with the limitation Only For DEX Rolls (-1). This keeps character’s CV within the norm, but allows the DEX-Based skills to become heroic.

 

Intelligence

In a high-tech universe like Traveller, INT is very important, since so many tech skills are INT-Based. If the GM wishes to allow higher rolls but not have everyone running around with an 18+ INT, he can allow the character to buy 5-point levels with INT-Based Skills, or 3-point skill levels with clusters of skills (e.g. Specialist: +1 with Electronics, Mechanics, and Computer Programming).

 

The point of that excerpt is that if you stress skills and keep the stats reasonable, you'll have a more realistic feel. Hope that helps.

[Outsider]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

I'd stick with 50, or even 25 points in disads too. More than that, and the PCs begin to look a lot like circus freaks who have recently escaped from a mental institution (like most supers )

[CSgeekHero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

Thanks everybody.

 

This gives me plenty of ideas.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

Jumping back in late...

 

And in the TravellerHERO pdf we will be releasing...

 

Wow, well put! I look forward to reading the rest of the document!

 

 

bigdamnhero

"Just once I'd like to fight an alien menace that wasn't invulnerable to our weapons."

[CSgeekHero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

How do you handle money in StarHERO campaigns?

Do you use the straight money option from 5e or do you house rule for more granularity between income levels?

I think it's important because an SH campaign is naturally more gear driven.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

In a high-tech universe like Traveller, INT is very important, since so many tech skills are INT-Based. If the GM wishes to allow higher rolls but not have everyone running around with an 18+ INT, he can allow the character to buy 5-point levels with INT-Based Skills,

 

That’s very, ah, generous.

 

Might I suggest a price break on at least some skill levels? Or a boost in effectiveness? Asking people to build to concept is nice, but it’s nicer when they don’t have to cripple themselves to do it. The 3 points for an extra Perception level and the ability to use complimentary skills are a fairly big deal in such a low point game.

 

---

“Luck is just one of my many, many skills.â€

[Eodin]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

That’s very, ah, generous.

 

Might I suggest a price break on at least some skill levels? Or a boost in effectiveness? Asking people to build to concept is nice, but it’s nicer when they don’t have to cripple themselves to do it. The 3 points for an extra Perception level and the ability to use complimentary skills are a fairly big deal in such a low point game.

 

Keep in mind that these are suggestions on how a GM can run a particular style, in this case a realistic rather than TV or movie style, and how to do so without changing the cost structures. If a GM house-rules any of the skill level costs, that's perfectly in his/her right to do so.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

How do you handle money in StarHERO campaigns?

Do you use the straight money option from 5e or do you house rule for more granularity between income levels?

I think it's important because an SH campaign is naturally more gear driven.

 

In the last SH campaign I was in, we more-or-less used the 5ed income rules; no one was rich, but a couple people were poor cuz it was that kind of campaign. Kept general track of how much they made vs. how much they spent, but didn't get too wrapped around the axle about it. Made for a little more bookkeeping, but was a necessary evil due to the nature of the campaign. We tried to do most of the "accounting" by email in between sessions, so it didn't eat up much game time.

 

The campaign before that (I was a player in this one) the PCs were on a nearly-unlimited expense account, so we could afford more-or-less anything within reason. But the campaign was structured such that gear was less important.

 

In the current campaign that I'm working on, the PCs are sorta lost in space (more Red Dwarf than Jupitor 2), so money is irrelevant.

 

Don't know if that helps...

 

bigdamnhero

"I'll be in my bunk."

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

How do you handle money in StarHERO campaigns?

Do you use the straight money option from 5e or do you house rule for more granularity between income levels?

I think it's important because an SH campaign is naturally more gear driven.

I did it a lot like BigDamnHero just mentioned too... Money was far from the focus of our campaign, more of a background concern to a few of the characters (like my Mercenary Captain) to be used as a periodic plot device than an actual running tally. One thing we did do, however, was institute another perk "Resources" that acted similar to money to represent the fact that a character might have tied up a lot of his usable money in things (like starships, full weapon lockers, landing craft) rather than having a lot of available cash and liquidatable assets.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

in our current sci fi game, we're playing 100+100, it's really a sci fi super hero game, we still haven't found the proper challange yet.

[Tom Carman]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

How do you handle money in StarHERO campaigns?

Do you use the straight money option from 5e or do you house rule for more granularity between income levels?

I think it's important because an SH campaign is naturally more gear driven.

I had a notion about this, and would like feedback if anyone ever tries it out.

 

Figure up your income level, and consider expenditures up to 1% to be "free" to the character. Getting more money would require an activation roll that increases as a higher fraction of annual income is accessed. Assume a base of 1 day to "get some cash together", then apply the time table in reducing the difficulty of the roll. If the roll fails, the character should wait at least a week before trying again. Possible variations are Burnout (get the money but credit line is now tapped out for a while) and Jammed (don't get the money and your credit is tapped out).

 

Some game "treasure" can be in the form of Money Favors: cash to cover a one-time large purchase. A negative "Favor" (if a player has the spare XP for it) could be taking out a loan. This could be expensive (in XP) if the character doesn't need to pay it back, or cheap if the player accepts a reduction in their normally-available funds over the "repayment period".

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

PM Lord Zod, he's running a Star Hero esque game and came up with his own economy that might be useful

[BlackSword]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

You could use something similar to Aeon (White Wolf) method. Being White Wolf, the scale is 0-5 for resource, equipment is then graded on a cost of 1-5.

 

If the cost is less than a PCs resources its an incidental expense.

If the cost is the same as a PCs resources it requires a roll. (similar to what Tom Carman is suggesting)

If the cost is more than the PCs resources it requires a roll with penalities.

 

Some outside factors might influence the roll, such as contacts who can provide access to more expensive or rare items.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: A more realistic feel for SH

 

AmadanNaBriona - I like the Resources Perk! I'll soon be implementing something similar.

 

 

I had a notion about this, and would like feedback if anyone ever tries it out.

 

Figure up your income level, and consider expenditures up to 1% to be "free" to the character. Getting more money would require an activation roll that increases as a higher fraction of annual income is accessed. Assume a base of 1 day to "get some cash together", then apply the time table in reducing the difficulty of the roll. If the roll fails, the character should wait at least a week before trying again. Possible variations are Burnout (get the money but credit line is now tapped out for a while) and Jammed (don't get the money and your credit is tapped out).

 

Some game "treasure" can be in the form of Money Favors: cash to cover a one-time large purchase. A negative "Favor" (if a player has the spare XP for it) could be taking out a loan. This could be expensive (in XP) if the character doesn't need to pay it back, or cheap if the player accepts a reduction in their normally-available funds over the "repayment period".

 

I've seen similar "abstract" money systems in other games, `tho I've never run one that way. They usually have worked just fine, at least from a player perspective. You can also make it so that saving up "x" money favors raises your income a level.

 

 

bigdamnhero

Remember: it's not plagarism if you say "Thank You."